M96 and M97 Confusion

[Uwon]

I have a 2006 C2S. Is the engine on my car referred to as an M96 or M97?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers.

[Loren]

M96 was used in the 996 series

M97 was used in the 997 series

[Uwon]

Thanks Loren. A follow up question. I just finished reading the Excellence Magazine tech article on the M96 plastic water pump impeller issue. Does the M97 motor not use the same type of plastic impeller and, if so, is it not prone to the same type of premature disintegration?

[logray]

Yes it uses the same pump. It is basically the same engine as M96.

There are some units available with a more metal like impeller, however it is not recommended to use those because if the shaft separates or metal breaks, then the metal might eat into the engine case rendering the whole motor useless... whereas the "plastic composite" impeller will not damage the case... in the later case the system just flushed pump replaced and you're back on your way.

I wouldn't call pump failure a chronic issue though (many of these issues are "hyped up" on the Internet), the pump in my 99 C2 was just fine when I pulled it out after 70,000 miles of use and 11 years soaking in the same coolant that was put in by the factory.

[Uwon]

Interesting. Logray, from what you say, I'll stick with plastic.

Did a little more digging. Pelican has the the same part number for the M96 and M97 save that the suffix is 996 and 997, respectively. However, the 997 water pump is $50 cheaper. Now, that's a break.

Local Porsche dealer here is Canada now tells me that the pumps are "similar" (and for once they are competitive with Palican).

Are we to surmise that the M96 and M97 part numbers are interchangeable? If so, M96 owners should take note.

[Loren]

The 996 and 997 parts are interchangeable for the 3.6 liter cars only.

[Uwon]

Thanks guys. In summary, a M97 3.8 water pump is different from a M97 3.6 and all M96. Right?

[Loren]

Thanks guys. In summary, a M97 3.8 water pump is different from a M97 3.6 and all M96. Right?

No, the 3.8 liter engine uses the same water pump as the 3.6 liter.

[invius]

I have a 99 C2, so the 996 pump is the only one that will work, not the 997?

Thanks,

DS

[Loren]

I have a 99 C2, so the 996 pump is the only one that will work, not the 997?

Thanks,

DS

You need 996-106-011-56 Water pump -- US MSRP $378.03

Try Sunset Porsche or Suncoast Porsche for better pricing.

[invius]

Loren,

When I'm on Suncoasts site, it references two part #'s, neither of which are the one you provided...any idea why the difference?

99610634054and99610601155 (from their site) vs. the one you provided (996-106-011-56).

Thanks!

DS

[Loren]

The current (latest) part number is the -56 I gave you.

Technically you could use either of the older parts but the newer design is likely (at least a little) better.

[alpine-al]

From what I've read,

• 997.1 3.6L engine is the M96/05
  
• 997.1 3.8L engine is the M97/01
  
• 997.1 3.6L GT3 is the M97/76
  
• 997.1 3.6L Turbo is the M97/70
  
• 997.1 3.6L GT2 is the M97/70S
  
• 997.1 3.6L GT2 RS is the M97/70R
  
• 997.2 3.6L engine is the MA102
  
• 997.2 3.8L engine is the MA101
  

[alpine-al]

Be aware that many parts departments sell both a "Genuine Porsche" water pump as well as a Laso brand water pump (sometimes referred to as an OEM). The Laso is usually $50 to $75 less than the Genuine Porsche water pump.

[Loren]

Okay --- here are ALL the engine codes currently listed in PET (as of October 22, 2012).

Engine Codes.pdf

[invius]

Sounds good, thanks for all of the info, I'm going to go with the -56 if I can get it in a reasonable amount of time. Seems to be sold out in quite a few places.

DS

[spender]

So is that part number (996-106-011-56) also the part number for the water pump for a 2003 C4S? Appears to be.

[Loren]

So is that part number (996-106-011-56) also the part number for the water pump for a 2003 C4S? Appears to be.

That is correct - that part number is the latest water pump for all 996 C2, C4, and C4S models.

[kgoertz]

Just adding to this thread for reference. I recently tried installing the 997 water pump (99710601105) into my 996.2 Targa and the impeller is hitting the block and won't spin. The fit is identical but it looks like the 997 part has a slightly different impeller.

I measured both water pumps side-by-side to find out why the 997 pump doesn't fit. The only significant difference that I could find is the size of the impeller. The diameter of the 996 impeller measured from the outside edge of the opposite fins was ~64.8mm. The diameter of the 997 impeller measured ~66.9mm. The height of the fins were the same within my ability to measure (within 1/10th of a mm).

The casing actually had the same part numbers (996 106 101 and 0070905063) but with a different version (07 vs 09). The diameter of the hole for the impeller was slightly larger on the 997 but only by ~1mm.

I think it could be possible to file down the 997 impeller to fit into the 996 but clearly the parts aren't interchangeable as shipped.

Edited January 23, 2014 by kgoertz

[Ericson38]

M96 was used in the 996 series M97 was used in the 997 series

 

New member :eek:

 

The  997 gen I (2006) C4 Cab we are looking at has a M9605 engine, according to the Porsche VIN report. Engine # is 69606529. I thought that the 3.8 (s) cars had the M97 engine.

[JFP in PA]

 

M96 was used in the 996 series M97 was used in the 997 series

 

New member :eek:

 

The  997 gen I (2006) C4 Cab we are looking at has a M9605 engine, according to the Porsche VIN report. Engine # is 69606529. I thought that the 3.8 (s) cars had the M97 engine.

 

 

If you look back in this thread, Loren posted a PDF breaking down how the engine codes work, which should be helpful. 

[Y2K911]

Very useful, indeed!

 

This Engine Code listing is very revealing: It tells me that all 997 C2 cars or Carreras from 05 to 08 are 3.6L with a designation of M96.05, and all 997 C2S cars or Carrera S from 05 to 08 are 3.8L with an M97.01 designation.

 

Now the salient question for these engines, is: When did the larger diameter IMS bearing get inserted in the production runs of either M96.05 or M97.01 engines?

 

Anyone knows?

 

This is to me very important, especially for someone (not necessarily me but eh!?) who has a keen interest in an early production 997, especially assembled in year 05 or pehaps even in early 2006.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Y2K911

[JFP in PA]

Very useful, indeed!

 

This Engine Code listing is very revealing: It tells me that all 997 C2 cars or Carreras from 05 to 08 are 3.6L with a designation of M96.05, and all 997 C2S cars or Carrera S from 05 to 08 are 3.8L with an M97.01 designation.

 

Now the salient question for these engines, is: When did the larger diameter IMS bearing get inserted in the production runs of either M96.05 or M97.01 engines?

 

Anyone knows?

 

This is to me very important, especially for someone (not necessarily me but eh!?) who has a keen interest in an early production 997, especially assembled in year 05 or pehaps even in early 2006.

 

2005 was the transitional year, some engines carried the smaller diameter single row bearing, others  the non serviceable large diameter bearing.  Unfortunately, there is no way of knowing which one is in a given engine without taking it apart and looking as all of the so-called methods (build date, engine numbers, VIN's, etc.) have proven to be unreliable by direct experience.  All 2006 cars will carry the non serviceable large bearing, as will any factory replacement engines, which will have either "AT" or "X" in their engine numbers.

[Y2K911]

Merci, J-F for your fast triggering on this beautiful Friday afternoon!

So, even an 05 'S' could have a smaller diameter, singe-row IMS bearing, n'est-ce pas?

Martin

[JFP in PA]

Merci, J-F for your fast triggering on this beautiful Friday afternoon!

So, even an 05 'S' could have a smaller diameter, singe-row IMS bearing, n'est-ce pas?

Martin

 

Correct, but take a lesson from another recent poster here that had a 2004 996 C4S which should have been a smaller and replaceable IMS bearing, so he went out and purchased everything he needed to do the IMS swap, including the LN bearing kit.  But when he took the car apart, he found the oversized non serviceable design bearing in the engine, because the engine was a factory replacement (bore an engine number with "AT" in it, which stands for "Austauschmotor" or replacement engine in German), leaving him stuck with the expensive LN kit, and the car all apart: 

 

 

When you are looking at these cars, particularly with the intent of buying one specifically to do an IMS retrofit, you really need to understand what you are looking at or you can make an expensive mistake.  In the case of an 05 car, if it still has the original engine in it, it could still go either way, and you need to pull it apart to find out what you are dealing with.