Won't start after fueling.

[bberryj]

2007 997.1.  Carrera S Cabriolet

After I refuel the car it doesn't want to start.  The engine cranks but it won't fire.  It sounds like it needs gas.  I put my foot on the accelerator and floor it and the car will start.  I then have to keep giving it gas for a few seconds or it will die.  Once it get going it runs fine.  It recently gave check engine light and code is P0441.  "P0441 Evaporative Emission System
"Incorrect Purge Flow Present"
I've researched this and it seems that it is a faulty purge valve or fuel tank vent line valve that needs to be replaced?  Conflicting information on whether the 997 has a fuel tank vent line valve.  Has anyone had experience with this?  Help would be much appreciated.

[Phunboy]

Yep, I had the same P0441 CEL on my 2006 997.1 with the hard start after every fuel fill up.  The culprit is a bad purge vent valve.  Depending on the engine, I had M96 engine, I had to replace with part 99711012801.  Best price was from ECS Tuning.

The valve replacement is a 5 minute job... it's right above the alternator, on the top left once you open the rear engine hood.

Good luck!

[bberryj]

Hi Phunboy.  Thanks for the response.  This is where I get confused.  My engine is an M97 but this part of the engine wasn't changed from m96 to m97.  When I searched for the part number at ECS  I got this message. I got the same message when searching for the part for the m96 engine or the m97 engine.

 

The following results were found while searching the entire ECS Tuning product catalog. Products listed below do not contain any applications that match your selected vehicle. The parts shown below were found by comparing your search terms against the known OEM part number or internal ECS part number. Before proceeding be sure to use the SELECT YOUR VEHICLE drop down menu in the upper left corner or be sure to check the product application guide before adding an item to your cart. If you have any questions about your part selection or vehicle application please call or email our sales team at 1-800-924-5172 or sales@ecstuning.com.

 

Pelican Parts has a write up on replacing this part and this is what they say about the 997 models.

If you have a 2005 or later 997 Carrera, Porsche has redesigned the tank ventilation system and eliminated many of the components and lines including the fuel line vent valve.

According to all the how to videos that I have seen the part that you referenced is behind the front passenger side wheel liner, attached to the line coming out of the vapor canister.

 

I also searched the parts catalog at Gaudin Porsche Parts emissions and fuel schematics for the part number and it is not there for a 2007 Carrera S or 2006 Carrera.

Any chance it is a different part number/  The part you referenced is $364.12 at ECS Tuning.  Does that sound right?  Again I really appreciate you responding.

Bill

[Morning Drives]

bberryj, did you resolved this issue?  came across this thread and I'm also experiencing the same symptoms.  I have a 997 C2S with M97 engine and I believe the culprit is the Vapor Canister Purge Solenoid - Porsche (997-110-129-00).  I also checked the fuel line vent valve as described by many with non M97 engines and for my particular variant its just a physical vent tube from the fuel tank to the vapor canister.   The Purge Solenoid as described to me by Sunset Porsche of Oregon is responsible for venting the fuel vapors  from the Carbon Canister to the combustion chamber to be burned.   The predicament I face is that there is no DIY.  It is speculated that the Purge Solenoid is behind the intake manifold left of the engine.   From what I surmise, threads that point to its location for 996s and non S 997s and turbos is by/vicinity of  the alternator.  That is not the case for M97 997 S, it hidden behind the left intake manifold and takes a bit of disassembly to get to it.  I'll be venturing on that DIY shortly.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Morning Drives

[andrew2008]

I'm getting these exact symptoms. After fueling the engine cranks but will
not fire. If I floor the accelerator while cranking then it will start. I
don't have a check-engine light and I also checked for fault codes with
a Durametric, but don't have any. Does anyone have any thoughts if this
could still be the fuel tank vent line? I have a 2010 GT3 and I haven't
been able to locate where this line is. Any help appreciated!
 

[rockhouse66]

I can tell you that my 996.2 had those exact symptoms and no CEL.  Replacing the vent valve at the filler fixed the problem.  I can't say how your car differs from mine, except that I would rather have yours!

[andrew2008]

Hi rockhouse66, Thanks for the info! It looks like the vent valves and locations are different between 996 and 997.

[Harness]

Just wanted to chime in here with my experience, and what ended up being the issue. I first had the problem about two years ago, filled up with gas one day and the car (2008 997 Porsche Carrera S Manual ...detail for search engines) wouldn't start. Called my indie whose shop was close by, and he came over and figured out that giving it some gas would get it to start up (rough though).

 

it was an intermittent problem for a while, and only expressed itself during colder months (avg temp below 70). It didn't matter if the car was warm or cold, but ambient air temperature seemed to be a factor with it not starting after fueling. Over the next two years I had my indie take a closer look based on what we found in the forums with each annual maintenance visit. He did a smoke test and replaced some valve one time and a solenoid the other, but the problem was still present. 

 

In recent months (during the pandemic and winter months so I wasn't driving much other than weekend cruising if the weather was nice) the problem got significantly worse. It was a very difficult to get running after fueling, and ran extremely rough (dying frequently) for the first couple of miles. Then, it would be fine until the next fill up.

 

I was concerned enough that I decided to take it to the dealer, literally telling them I didn't want it back until they filled it up with gas and successfully started it. I plan on keeping this car for a very long time, and I was at the point where I wanted it fixed and didn't care too much about the cost.

 

They gave it to one of their guys that had been around for a long time. He troubleshot it down to the "Tank Vent Line," part # 997-110-129-00. Here's his note to me:

 

"Found that the vent valve line is stuck open. The tank vent valve is underneath bank 1 intake. The alternator and the intake must be removed to replace."

 

That was about $950 in labor from the dealer, plus $468 for part. Well worth it to me at this point.

 

I got it back, drove it ton, and then filled it up when I was about halfway through the tank. Started right up just like it was supposed to.

 

Hope this helps someone in the future.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Harness