viper501

Bill, look at my instructions in the DIY section regarding the latching mechanism and potential failure point. Its an easy DIY.

I replied to your post on Rennlist as well but didn't address some of the questions. Having just gone through this, I'll offer my two cents. I was cruising on the interstate when things went south and the car started running rough. Dealer in Tennessee (Rick Hill Imports in Kingsport) did a good job looking at it and diagnosing with no compression on number 2. They suspected a valve issue but said that the labor alone to get the engine out and repair the valve, whether a spring or a bent valve, would be astronomical. Book says that remove engine, remove accessories, replace accessories, and replace engine is over 33 hours of labor. They suggested replacement and qouted me 10k +/- for complete RAR with Porsche reman'd engine. I was a bit reluctant to drop that kind of money at a dealer out of my area so I trucked the car back home to my local dealer. They independently verified no compression on number two and said RAR was the suggested solution. Astoundingly, they qouted me 16k for the same *exact* thing as Rick Hill. Obviously, that was crazy. They were trying to get full retail on the engine (cost for the dealers is about 6800) and tacked on an extra 20+ hours of labor for the install. I took the car to my indie and ordered the engine from Sunset (tried ordering it from Brandywine and they took me for a real ride. You can search here or shoot me a P.M. and I'll fill in the details on that but bottom line is DO NOT GO TO BRANDYWINE.) Once I ordered from Sunset, the engine got here in about 11 days, including the date of the order and the arrival. My indie tech and I removed the old engine, installed a new clutch, LWF (AASCO unit from FVD), reassembled the engine, transferred a couple parts that had been updated on the new engine, and installed the new engine in about 12 hours of work time. Could have easily done it in less had we done one before. Very very simple to unhook the necessary lines and swap things over. She started on the first try and is running like a top. Finally put 1k miles on her and now feel comfortable winding things out a bit. Now I have to ship the core back to Sunset. :( I'd love to find a local buyer so I wouldn't have to ship it back.

Lemon laws will vary from state to state. IIRC, South Carolina requires that you be the original purchaser of the car and that it has to have been back to the shop for x number of times for the same repair. I'm not sure about NC. There are a few potentially viable causes of action but they will require someone who wants to litigate on the principle of the thing and is willing to shell out some money for experts and litigation costs. I'm sure that most of the data from Porsche is safely tucked away in Germany, not the U.S.

Suncoast probably has the best current price on Litronics. Sunset may be able to help too. Kinda depends. Stay far far far away from Brandywine though. Ebay has lights (halogen mostly) pop up from time to time. Be careful what you bid on though. A number of the ones I have seen on Ebay have had broken mounting tabs (probably from being removed from the car with a crowbar late in the night). I also got burned, pardon the pun, on a single light that I bought that the internal wiring had been cooked somehow. Don't know if it was overwattage bulbs or what but all of the internal insulation was cracking apart. I'd recommend you get good pictures, before bidding, of the lights both inside and out.

There are so many terms in there that need to be defined with some clarity that you'll be litigating that issue. I can say that it does not appear that broken valve springs are covered, depending on how they define internally lubricated part. My neighbor is currently suing a 3d party warranty company over the transmission in his M5 going out. Despite the fact that the failed part is covered in fluid, they didn't consider it an internally lubricated part. Also, the RMS and IMS seals are definitely not covered based on that language. I'd say you're in for a fight with them and that the burden of proof has been pushed back on you to prove the cause of the failure. I'm also curious whether they would cover a bearing failure caused by coolant intermix.

Mine is my daily driver. I put about 60k miles on her in two years. Yes, I drive a lot. Even with the X74 suspension she's great. Really makes some trips a lot more fun (and take a lot less time :D ) My engine 'died' at 126, 1XX miles. Died is in qoutes because it really appears that the most likely cause of the loss of compression on number 2 was a broken valve spring. I decided to replace the engine based on economics. For the labor involved in removing the engine, stripping off the accessories and opening up the head, I was halfway to a Porsche reman'd engine with a two year unlimited mileage warranty. It didn't make economic sense to me to spend that kind of money on an engine that was that far along in mileage when I could get an updated engine for a little more. My current mileage is 126,6XX. New engine is sweet, especially with the new FVD branded AASCO lightweight flywheel. Highway mileage varies depending on the right foot. Cruising about the speed limit I can get 28 to 30. Going to the mountains is a *bit* less. :D Around town is about 20-22. Having come from an ///M Roadster to my 99 996, I'd caution you to understand that parts are a bit pricier, especially if you don't have either a good dealer or the patience to order from Sunset Porsche or another dealer ( DO NOT GO TO BRANDYWINE PORSCE - DO A SEARCH here and on 6speedonline.com IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHY ). The cars themselves are no more difficult to work on though, just gotta find someone that knows what they are doing or learn how to do it yourself. Maintenance is easy to do yourself assuming you can turn a wrench and follow directions. RMS leaks are normally not fatal or catastrophic so don't freak about them. The IMS failure is fatal and is catastrophic but you can't tell when that may happen. There is an updated IMS solution out there. Search for Autofarm in the U.K. for more info on that. BTW, even though I just spent a lot of money on her, I still love that car. Oh and of course :renntech:

Buy the LED from Carnewal.com. Gert is great. If you want my old one, it may be sitting in the garage still (or I may have already trashed the POS). Shoot me a p.m. if you want me to look. Its yours for shipping if its still around.

I've posted on this issue several times already but I will do it again because I don't want to see you get taken. I have no idea what the history of that company is. However, as an attorney I defend several dealerships and a major manufacturers finance arm. Invariably, there seems to be a lawsuit over the 3d party warranty company not paying up when they, arguably, should. I'm fairly sympathetic to their plight but you have to go into one of those things with your eyes wide open. The simple fact is that there is fairly little gaurantee that the company will exist at the time you make a claim. The next issue is whether they will actually pay the claim or try to deny it until you are forced to sue them. Then, assuming you get a judgment, you have to collect on that judgment. Very very difficult in many cases because you don't necessarily know who you are dealing with. Some states are doing a better job of regulating these companies, and you pay for it. The reputable companies that are willing to play ball can charge more because they don't have the cut-rate competition. Of course, there is still no gaurantee they will pay the claim. Furthermore, some of the shops won't accept the warranty companies assurance that they will pay on the repair. Too many have been screwed over by the fly by night guys and won't deal with companies they don't know. Finally, remember that if you go through a dealer to get the warranty you are paying about twice what it is costing the dealer to sell you the policy. Generally speaking there is a 100% markup on those 3d party warranties and when you have a problem the dealer will wash their hands and say it is between you and that company. Bottom line is that I would be very reluctant to enter into a third party warranty unless I had specific information on the company and their reinsurer and the state specific regulations that govern their conduct. Having said that, my engine went at 126k miles. I have done some post-mortem examination of it and it is clear that the number 2 cylinder has no compression. Having looked at it after we pulled it, I believe that she broke an exhaust valve spring. To fix that issue on an engine with that many miles just didn't make too much sense to me. For 7900 (roughly) I bought a new engine and for a little more got an independent shop to help with the install (which Porsche makes *very* easy, BTW). If you consider the headaches you may encounter with a 3d party warranty for that price I might just save my pennies and wait and see, esp. since your coverage goes away at 98k miles. Just my 3 cents.

As you can see from Loren's diagram, its what you don't want to fail. If the IMS fails, you're gonna hose your engine in an instant. Massive catastrophic destruction of the entire valve train.

The RMS is really not going to kill the car except under very unusual circumstances. The IMS failure, the coolant intermix on the oil cooler, the cylinder sleeves slipping, or a valve spring failure are the costly ones, kind of in that order. Do not let the RMS keep you from enjoying the car. Also, while they are in there, you might want to get them to update the case bolts and the bolts on the IMS, assuming that they don't have sense enough to do it on their own.

From what I've seen, Porsche is replacing seals if they are even sweating. I'd take it to the dealer and get them to deal with it while it is still under warranty. From what I've read, the 'new' seal is apparently working well. Also, the dealer is motivated to do the work considering Porsche is footing the bill.

I'm pleased to report that Sunset Porsche ordered the engine on July 6 and has managed to have it delivered to my indie on July 17. Given that the engine went from Atlanta to Portland to South Carolina I am very pleased. I am especially pleased that Sunset was actually able to do in seven business days when Brandywine couldn't even manage to order the engine in more time.

dphil66, with a factory reman'd unit you get a two year unlimited mileage warranty, something I doubt that Motor Meister would do. Also, the cost of the engine (3.4) is about 7800 from Sunset Porsche (As I've pointed out in my post about Brandywine, do NOT trust Brandywine). I'd love to have done a 3.6 conversion but the cost gets significantly higher and more complicated as there were several electrical changes from the 3.4 to the 3.6.

Viola, drive it and enjoy it. Don't worry about 'cause it will just drive ya nuts. With the clutch, new coolant hoses, new clutch release lever, engine, shipping (both to and fro), light weigh flywheel, and installation, I figure I'm gonna hit just over 10k. I'm saving a *lot* on the installation but dumping it back into the car with the rest of the preventative maintenance and upgrades.

I lost my engine (or at least a valve on number 2) back at the end of May. I trailered the car back to my local indie and started shopping around for a replacement engine. I'd read a discussion on 6speedonline.com about engine pricing and one of the participants works for Brandywine. He indicated that the price in reman'd engines was about 6800.00. I contacted him via P.M. and he informed me that the engine price was 7500.00 plus a core charge, plus shipping. I was also informed that I would have to wire the total, including the refundable core charge, to Brandywine's bank. I was a bit taken aback by the concept of wiring that kind of money with no realistic recourse if there were a problem. I was also concerned about how the core charge would be refunded and the fact that they would have to cut me a check and there was no indication how long that would take them to do nor any gaurantee they would actually cut it. However, I made arrangements to have that done once I had the bank information and the total charge. I repeatedly emailed and called my contact at Brandywine. I made it very clear to him that my 911 was a daily driver and that I needed the engine as soon as possible. He kept reassuring me that the engine had been ordered and that it was going to come in very soon. In fact, each time I contacted him, he gave me a new arrival date. As you can see from the email thread pasted in this post, he assured me that the engine had been ordered and that it would be in on a certain date. I called the dealership again on July 5 and reached a different parts guy and asked him if he could check on the order. He couldn't find my name in the computer, much less an order for an engine. He connected me to the parts manager who identified himself as Rick. Rick initially put the blame on me for not having wired the money. I tried to explain that I could have understood that if the parts guy had told me that they were waiting on payment before ordering the motor *and* if he had not *repeatedly* assured me that the engine was on its way and would be in on this day and that day. Rick put me on the speakerphone with the parts guy that I'd been talking to for almost three weeks and asked me to repeat my assertion that I'd been repeatedly told the engine was on its way. I did and Rick very pointedly asked parts guy whether he had told me that the engine was enroute. After a very pregnant pause, parts guy manned up and admitted that he had been telling me that the engine had been ordered. Rick told me that he would call me back, which he did. When Rick called back, he said that he would order the engine the next day but only after I wired over ten thousand dollars to them. He didn't offer to expedite the shipping at their expense or anything else. In fact, he didn't even offer an apology. He repeatedly demanded that I send them the money via wire before the engine would be ordered. Furthermore, he said that I could not use a credit card to pay the core charge in contradiction to parts guy's statements to me. Needless to say, I was less than enthusiastic about sending that much money with no recourse to a business that had demonstrated their lack of reliability and trustworthiness. I decided to rethink things and ended up calling Sunset Porsche. They ordered the motor that day, without me providing a bank wire. In fact, the engine was ordered on Friday, July 6, arrived at Sunset and was shipped to me on July 12. The difference in price was so worth it to not have to deal with Brandywine. I'm also concerned about the way in which Brandywine qouted me a flat freight rate of five hundred dollars to ship from PA to SC. Interestingly, Sunset's actual shipping charge was $460 to ship from Oregon to SC. Hmmmm. Sort of makes me suspect that Brandywine was bumping their shipping charges to compensate for the price reduction. I have removed some of the identifying information out of respect for the parts guy manning up and admitting that he'd been blowing smoke and to ensure that no private financial information gets out on the internet. Its threaded backwards so you'll need to read from bottom to top. **************************************************************************** -----Original Message----- From: [them] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:06 PM To: [me] Subject: RE: [POTENTIAL SPAM] RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], the arrival date is for its arrival here at Brandywine Porsche, the VA was a typo, sorry about that, yes that is correct you can use your cc to pay for the core charge, thank you [them] -----Original Message----- From: [me] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 11:36 AM To: [them] Subject: RE: [POTENTIAL SPAM] RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [them], Thanks for the update. Is the arrival date for delivery to me or to you in PA? Also, the engine is being shipped to South Carolina, not Virginia. Please double check that the engine is going to the right location. As I understand it, I can wire you the eight thousand dollars and give you a credit card for the 2325.47 core charge, correct? If so, I'll have the money wired today and call you after lunch with the credit card for the core. Please let me know. [me] -----Original Message----- From: [them] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 10:29 AM To: [me] Subject: RE: [POTENTIAL SPAM] RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], the motor is on its way it will most likely will arrive on Monday of next week Wednesday at the absolute latest, I understand your situation and we are working to get this wrapped up as fast as possible, when shipping engines the trucking companies take extra care because they are shipping flammable liquids, I will keep you posted on the shipping, the total cost will be $10325.47 this price includes the engine, core charge and shipping, the brake down is as follows. engine = $7500 Core charge = $2325.47 shipping one way to VA $500 w/shipping insurance let me know if you have any questions, thanks again [them] -----Original Message----- From: [me] Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 8:46 AM To: [them] Subject: [POTENTIAL SPAM] RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. Importance: Low [them], Please verify for me that the engine is enroute. I need a projected arrival date so I can get the car in the rotation at my shop. I also still don't have a total price so I have not been able to wire the money. I'm sorry if I seem like I am bugging you about this but the downtime of my car, since it is my only car, is pretty critical. I want to make sure that there are no avoidable delays. Thanks. [me] ***** This message was sent wirelessly from my mobile handset. ----- Original Message ----- From: [them] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:37 am To:[me] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], sorry about the delay, she came in a little later then expected, the info is as followed, let me know if you have anymore questions, thank you [bank info] l Message----- From: [me] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:10 AM To: [them] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [them], Any news? [me] _____ From: [them] Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:28 AM To: [me] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], the dealerships accountant had left early on Friday and will be returning today around 10am, she is the only one with the account info, as soon as she gets in I will pass along the wire transfer info to you, if you could provide me with the shipping address I will get the shipping price for you, thank you [me] [them] -----Original Message----- From: [me] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:24 AM To: [them] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [them], Looks like this is the way I'm gonna go. Let me know what you need to get it ordered. Also, give me a price on a clutch kit and a can of coolant. [me] _____ From:[them] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 4:41 PM To: [me] Subject: RE: Porsche reman engine qoute. [me], I looked into the pricing on these engines about 2 months ago and I was under the same impression, its seems that Porsche has increased the price of there engines and dropped the price of the cores, but I have confirmed that this pricing is correct, I would only extend this discounted price to my fellow 6-speeders, and yes I an engine installed by an independent shop can be warrantied but it only covers the engine not labor or anything else just the engine, thanks again for the inquiry let me know if I can help you out in any other way, thanks [them] -----Original Message----- From: [me] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 3:06 PM To: [them] Subject: Porsche reman engine qoute. [them], Wanted to touch base with you again and make sure you'd seen the response that I sent to you by p.m. on 6speedonline.com. Specifically, you indicated the motor pricing was 7500 but I was under the impression that the reman'd motors were 6800 and change. Can you confirm the pricing. Also, can you verify that the two year warranty on the engine applies regardless of who installs (i.e. an independent shop). Thanks. [me] (aka viper501) [Me], the reman engine lists for $9304.96 your price would be $7500, at this price i will need the core back, at the time of the order i will have to charge you for the core, the core charge will be $2325.47, i can determen the shipping for you if you provide me with an address, thanks again [me] Cheers [Them]

All of the years have had issues, at least anecdotally. I had 126k miles on my engine when it started having problems. And I am the third owner so no tellling how she was treated before. If labor wasn't so darn high, repairing this engine might be worth it. Up until this issue, she'd been running great, had done plenty of high rpm driving, and was smooth and powerful. While the money I am spending is really a PIA, I can't complain too much considering that I've put about 65k miles on the car in two years. The ones that seem to have problems more frequently are the low mileage garage queens. Unfortunately, the internet is great for spreading information, including that the sky is falling. :)

The Porsche reman'd engine itself is about 7800 plus shipping from Sunset Porsche. That is a fully dressed motor with completely new everything except for a/c compressor. Install is fairly straightforward and is essentially plug and play. RMS is not really a big deal. Stupid and unsightly yes but not the cause of a catastrophic engine failure. And a non-leaking RMS is no gaurantee of not losing the engine. My engine had 126k miles from three owners when something failed. I suspect a valve spring as I have no compression on number 2 but the engine will run, albeit not well, but won't idle. The engines can be rebuilt, just like any engine, assuming you can locate the parts and want to spend the labor. That is where the rub is. To pull an engine, undress it, redress it and replace it in the car is about 30 hours of labor. And that is without any 'work' really being done on it. To replace the engine with a reman'd unit is about 10 hours of labor. The math, and the risk utility analysis really calls for replacement when there is a major failure, especially where the car has as many miles as mine did. And as far as the 80's cars go, I think you're having selective memories. They've all had issues. And God forbid you need to rebuild or replace a 993 engine. Ouch! Dealer installed reman'd engine prices depend on the dealership. The dealer in Podunk Tennessee qouted me 10k and change for an installed reman'd engine. The local dealer where I live qouted me 16k. Obviously, it pays to shop around.

I'm going through a motor replacement right now. The dealer cost on the reman motor is about 6800 w/ Sunset Porsche selling for about 7800. Brandywine was going to sell me the engine for 7500 but really truly dicked me over (I'll save that experience for another thread because everyone should be warned about doing business with Brandywine Porsche). Labor to remove and replace should be about ten hours according to the shop labor books I've seen. The dealer where I broke down qouted me an out the door installed price of ten grand and change for miscelllaneous expenses. The local dealer tried to screw me something serious by qouting me at sixteen thousand. Needless to say I am having the motor shipped to an indie shop and installed for *substantially* less. I just offer this as a data point to know whether their "fifty percent" qoute is really fifty percent of the 'real' price of replacement or their playing games with the numbers. Good luck. And do talk to a lawyer.

There is someone on here who sells adapters, or at least he did. I used a sheet of ABS plastic to cobble together my own adapters. Worked fairly well, though I probably would have bought the ones the guy makes if I hadn't already done mine before I found his.

Pat, if you're around Columbia, I can stop by and give you a hand with it. I've done it at least three times on my 996 now.

I'd do a search on Google for the Collection as well. Seems they've been known to crash cars while their mechanics are on 'test' drives (also known as joy rides). I agree with Loren as far as cost goes. 2k is too high. Parts are less than four hundred bucks from online Porsche dealers like Suncoast or Sunset. Labor rate for something as extensive as removing and replacing the entire motor is only about 10 hours.

Tweeter. I think it was for an Audi.

When I installed my Alpine 9835 into my U.S. 99 996 c2, I used an Audi/VW adapter. Crutchfield, or its Swiss equal, should have plenty of them. I also had to use an antenna adapter, not that I listen to FM any more.

Just to add another sad data point, my 99 996 C2 had 126k miles on it when it died about two weeks ago. Cruising on the interstate at legal-ish speeds. I felt the car hiccup and then the check engine light began flashing. Long story short is there is no compression on number two. One dealer said bent valve, the other that most likely the cylinder liner cracked or slipped. Car still runs, just won't idle and is down on power (imagine that). Have a new engine on order and hope to have it installed and up and running within two more weeks. It really is pathetic that there are any failures of these motors, much less ones that are clearly a quality control failure. And as has been said before, many manufacturers have issues with their cars but Porsche seems resolute in saying that it isn't their fault. At least BMW warrantied their screwed up motors for 100k miles. Looking back on it, the one thing that may have been a tip-off to impending doom was that the car would run hot on warm days, even with clean radiators and even after putting in the third radiator kit. Also, if I ran the car hard, I would occasionally get a flashing coolant light. Checking it showed no problem with the coolant level. Always thought that was odd. Now I will have a two year unlimited mileage warranty on the motor and I intend to take full advantage of that. Given the miles I drive for work, I won't feel at all bad about the car being my daily driver.

Loren, thanks for the info as well. My front driver's side hasn't sat right since I got the car. Now I can get that taken care of as well.