brendel

Never neglect the wife thing against noisy cars!!!

I think we misunderstand each other here I was refering to factory parts and not aftermarket

_Factory standard exhaust have a single exhaust pipe coming to the tips ( per side of course) with the option to have the oval exhaust tips in chrome for the Carrera or a dual exhaust tip for the Carrera S, option being also to have it chromed for the carrera S

_The Porsche Sport Exhaust ( orignial porsche not aftermarket ) has dual exhaust pipe ( per side so 4 in total ) + the dual exhaust tips ( per side) this is what I have on my car

Anyway the factory PSE can be recognized easily by the 2 diameters on the exhaust tips, one small one big on the outter side

Of course with aftermarket stuff everything is possible

PSE = 2 exhaust pipe coming to the exhaust tips

Standard = 1 exhaust pipe coming to dual or single exhaust tips

I have been through low voltage symptoms like windows not closing fully when the door is closed, slow cranking

I am sure you have done that already, but what about charging the battery for one night, if you notice a difference you know that you either have an alternator or a cable to change

It had about 110.000km when I took it to the independent Porsche specialist that eventually repaired the engine. Although I did track the car twice, I assume the damage had already been done when I bought it at about 85.000km, since I had to add oil since I bought it. Of course, I don't know how the car was used/driven by its first owner. But it did get worse during my ownership, the ticking noise wasn't there (or at least I didn't notice it) at the beginning.The oil: before the engine repair: Mobil1 0W40, since the repair (the indy always uses it) Mobil1 5W50.I ALWAYS waited for the oil level test to finish before driving the car, and I topped it up whenever it went to 1 block above the minimum level. I didn't drive it fast when cold, I really took good care of it.What I also did: change the thermostat to the LN Engineering version that opens sooner.Bottom line: I'm afraid it will break down again after another 100.000km. When I browse second hand Porsches online, I often encounter cars with "new engine, only xxxxxx km" on high mileage ones. And I will not track it anymore!

Hi Rik,

Your post sounds exactly like what happened to me, my 997 C4S tiptronic was always serviced wtih 5W50 at Porsche ( 137 000 KM)

At the last service, I had to change Porsche garage due to schedule issues and I noticed they put Castrol 0W40 ( approved oil...)

Shortly after, 1 month, I got the ticking noise and it got louder and louder on the right bank 4-5-6 , an oil consumption of 1L every 1000 KM, normally I was doing 1L every 6 to 7000 KM+ a lot of carbon black on the left exhaust

I went back to the garage that did the service ( knowing damned well what happened after reading the great article from Hartech) and they told me it was a hydraulic valve lift. Since I had a guarantee from Porsche, I decided to see another Porsche center for a second diagnostic, before I finished explaining to the guys that I had a ticking noise, the man interrupted me to say: " and you a black exhaust pipe and using oil", he mentioned that this is rare but happens and they will replace the engine for free

Took a month to get the car back, they had to do a borescope picture, get porsche appoval, messed up schedules...

The engine was delivered with everything new on it, generator, oil separator, intake manifold, water pump, .... even the exhaust manifold, ( i heard that the engine is tested at the factory before being delivered )

anyway, to my point, when I got the car back thanking the chief mechanic with a box of chocolates, the guy told me, please now only use Mobil 1 5W50. I guess this comment was not innocent

I read the hartech article and I have to say, it did sound scientifically bullet proof, but my car is a tiptronic with the third radiator so the cooling capacity is in theory higher and I was not expecting it to had score cylinders

When I read your post I am more thinking that the scoring cause is the break in the oil film, one may say that this is a consequence of a too high cylinder deformation caused by heat but I guess the 0W40 is too thin, and it might happen sooner than with the 5W50

I think the 3.8 has a real desease, though the we don't hear IMS issues, it seems that every car with high mileage on the net had the engine change done

Looking at prices of 1 gen 997 carrera S today, well less than 40 000 euros, and knowing an engine rebuild will ensure you another 100 000 to 150 000 KM trouble free for 7 to 10 000 euros, it is still worth the money to me

I would like to mention also that when I had the cylinder scoring, I reved up the engine just like before, besides the ticking noise, and oil consumption the car was running perfect

I looked up the mufflers reference number on Porsche.com, they are indeed different on the 96.05 and the 97.01 engines and that probably because of the exit pipe, I am not sure that the exit diameter would be smaller it is probably centered differently due to the different tail pipe design Cats have the same ref numbers for the 2 engines, therefore the inlet pipe will be the same diameter, also the connecting sleeve has the same ref number... and both engine can have the XLF ( Porsche Sport Exhaust ) as optional, and for this there is only one type of muffler ( actually 3 references for the different region noise tolerance but they would look identical from outside ( I know from experience)

Good luck!!!

Hi,

Please find pictures of the tools

First is the Socket insert tool number 300

then is the socket tool number 14

Third is the extension bar tool number 15

I am quite sure that these are Hazet tools and you probably can find them on their website

sparkplugtools.doc

I don't believe that the special tools are necessary, but If you want I will send you the pictures ( I am in the office right now... :renntech: )

The socket is standard,

The socked insert, is strange, I guess it is acting like a small extension to put on the plug side as the plug tubes are long and you don't have the space to insert a long socket in one go as you have the muffler holders on the other side

The extension bar is special, it has a barrel connection, instead of a square one, I guess it is to avoid the usage of a cardan and therefore gain space and be able to have the right torque numbers on the plug

My solution to this was to buy a socket with a cardan in 3/8, I bought one at autozone last time I was in the US, but I never tried it, from experience I know it would work though ( you need a dyno wrench on 3/8 also...) the role of the cardan is that it folds and therefore allows you to put a rather long socket in the plug tube

Before that I also did it with a normal 1/2 tool box, I had to put the socket in the tube first, connnect the cardan, and then connect the extension bar, the reverse way is more tricky you need to hold the socket with a thin piece of metal once you are done and then extract it somehow, magnet..., not an easy thing

If you are properly equiped you should be able to use your dyno socket wrench with the cardan being straight, don't use a torque wrench or tighten plugs with a floded cardan

On some plugs I could not use the torque wrench, I therefore applied basic mechanic knowledge and everything worked perfectly

http://www.ngk-sparkplugs.jp/english/techinfo/qa/q18/index.html

Regarding your cracked coil, I drove with one like that too for 2 years before changing it, I ulitmately changed it when I did the plugs, but there was no change at all on how the engine behaved, I also did not have any misfiring

by the way your pictures motivated me to take the front bumper and clean the radiators, I did it with a high pressure hose, it is amazing what comes out of it, It is a very easy procedure in the end, it took me a good 2 hours, but I am sure if I had to do it again 1 hour would be enough

Good luck with the plugs

Quick update to all, RFM was right, 99733104301 had play in it , you can feel it when the part is removed from car

I changed them on both sides, the problem is now solved

Thanks again

No need to remove the muffler for the spark plugs, you just need the right tools, It is off course easier without, and it will be a bit of torture

Below is the extract from the Porsche Manual, I bought a spark plug wrench with an integrated cardan shaft at Autozone, it needs to be in 3/8 and you need a 3/8 extension too, there is little space in there, you will understand when you will start

Also, I did change the spark plugs at half the advised KM ( 45 000 KM) just to be sure, there were really looking good, like new...and there was absolutely no difference in fuel efficiency or engine running at idle, ask yourself if you really need to do that? the Porsche Bosch 4 electrodes are there to last 4 times longer than before and it does work well

I would avoid taking off the muffler, this is absolutely unnecessary unless you want to change them, I did it myself to reweld them as there was a vibration at high RPM due to a broken metal strap that maintains the pipe together on the PSE..., The exhaust holder pins have a high chance to break when you will try to unscrew them, and believe me I used a lot of WD 40, each holder is 350 USD, + new screws, + 2 new sleeves as they need replacement all the time it can be a 1000 bucks, the socket wrench with cardan shaft is 5 bucks...

Good luck

Removing spark plugs

Shield for ignition coils

1. Remove the 2 M6 x 20 fastening screws -arrows- for the shields on both cylinder heads and remove

the plates.

2. Unplug cable plug for the ignition coils. To do this, slide the rubber grommets upward first. Press

locking tabs on the respective ignition coil and pull off the individual plugs. In the interest of better

accessibility, unplug the cable plugs for the solenoid hydraulic valves.

Screws for ignition coils

Loosen two M6 x 25 fastening screws -arrows- each per ignition coil and remove the 6 ignition

coils individually.

ATTENTION

Incorrect tool for changing the spark plugs!

· Ceramic body breaks!

Ä Only use the approved tool spark plug socket wrench NR.14 and 3/8" extension, 16° moveable NR.15.

4. Unscrew the spark plugs using the tool spark plug socket wrench NR.14 with 3/8" extension, 16°

movable NR.15.

top of page

Installing

Installing spark plugs

ATTENTION

Incorrect tool for changing the spark plugs!

· Ceramic body breaks!

Ä Only use the approved tool spark plug socket wrench NR.14 and 3/8" extension, 16° moveable NR.15.

1. Install spark plug with spark plug socket wrench NR.14 and 3/8" extension, 16° movable

NR.15. Ä Tightening torque: 22 ftlb. If the spark plugs will be removed and installed again for

another activity, the tightening torque is reduced. Ä Tightening torque: 19 ftlb.

2. Insert ignition coils in the spark-plug recesses and tighten using two M6 x 25 fastening screws each.

Ä Tightening torque: 7.5 ftlb. . Then connect the cable plug and position the rubber grommet on

the coils.

3. Insert the shield again and fit using two fastening screws. Ä Tightening torque: 7.5 ftlb.

You are reading in mind, though I still have a smile on my face despite the bad stories, I cannot get to the idea of driving something else, you know "cars with the engine in the wrong place", the front...

I will see how it goes, maybe I make friends again with my C4S with a new engine

I am going through the same story

My differential is new as changed with the tiptronic under guarantee

My sway bar links and bushes are new

The transaxle ( I guess you mean the main cardan shaft between rear and front), has been replaced by Porsche without asking, as they have seen that the rubber spacer was worn,

After all that the noise is still there

I tend to think that most people don't care that is why it is seldomly reported

I also heard the dual mass flywheel story, and that 1 car out of 5 does this without known reason

I will be changing the control arms ( not the coffin one the other big ones ) on the back as I get some clunk when gently braking, if there is some change I will let you know

now I don't have my car, as I got the nasty cylinder scoring and Porsche is changing the engine under guarantee ( an engine in 85 000 miles... no comments), I asked them to check the rear CV joints also

Here is the rear CV noise

Hope it works

C4SCVrear.mov

Thanks RFM, I know about the longitudinal move on the rear ones ( about 3 to 4 cm move), but on the AWD 911 the front CV hardly have play

The left one would have 1 mm where as the right side would have around 5mm

The difference with the rear is that you hear this "Clonck Clonck" everytime you move the CV shaft, on the rear ones you feel that the movement is dampened by grease in the CV joint, it must be a different system

Hence my question: is this normal ?

My rear potential CV issue is all different, I hear a slight clonk when I give gas, the same noise can be reproduced when I lift up the car, now I don't know if this would be the differential or not

I will try to post again the video

Hi Everyone,

Since I started to learn about CV joints ( see previous post), I tested the rear ones too as I get a light "click" whenever I give gas

When I move the wheel and put my hand on the inner CV joint, I do fell that the noise comes from the joint but the differential is just behind and it is not very clear, the differential is new as I got my tiptronic changed recently, also there seems to be no play between the joint and the shaft, see attached video

Do you think it is time to renew them, my car is 85 000 Miles, or is this normal

The other side seem to be also making noise but then again, the differential makes noise on the other side and it is not obvious to locate the culprit

I would have believed that if I make the shaft slide the noise would have changed, but it keeps on being the same, so maybe this is just the differential or maybe this is just the normal noise of CV joints?

Let me know what you think about the mileage and 911 CV joints.

Thanks

C4SCVrear.mov

C4SFrontcV.movHello Renntech,

I have tried to identify clunks and rattle on my C4S

After having changed everything in the front I still get a rattle when traveling at low speed

Here is the list of what I changed:

_Suspension, Top bushing, suspension bearing,

_inner and outer steering tie rods, all control arms, steering rack,

_sway bar bushing, say bar links

The only part that is not new are the CV joints which to me have an abnormal play, not when turning it but pushing and pulling along the shaft as per attached video

The car is now 85 000 Miles

Could you tell me if this is normal?

Thanks

Thanks for your answers,

The Say bar bushing were not lubbed, should I do that?

The "Lenker" is what I would call the control arm, I think it could be the culprit too

Thanks to all, I will buy a new pair and keep you updated ( might take a month or 2 though)

thanks again

Hi Loren,

I did change both bushings and links both with new bolts, threadlock and rightly torqued

Nothing changed

What about engine mounts? do they wear easily?

Thanks

I would say a "clonk" located in the back, at the level of the quarter windows

I would not hear anything when driving over speedbumps, it happens just when braking gently over a small road imperfection,

The road does not need to be very bad, it can be a road joint and if I press the brake very gently: " clonk"...

The noise is relatively loud, disproportionate to the size of the road imperfection and I can hear it most of the time when I drive down a slope and breaking

My driveway has a relatively high incline and there is a difference of level between concrete slabs , going down I hear it, going up I don't...

I have it since I bought the car (15 000 miles ago) but it does get louder

I did look on both sides and tried to shake all the control arms, shake the wheel, check the CV joints for play, everythings seems very normal

I changed my brake pads and glue brand new antisqueal dampers ( cleaning the pad before) so nothing loose here, I also thought it could be the air filter box but its seems to hold tight and is mounted on elastomers...

Hi everyone,

I am getting a loud noise on the rear when i am braking gently on a manhole or very slight pothole, always at low speed, which makes driving in town unpleasant

I wanted to know according to you which part get shot first on the back of the car? I have 85 000 miles on my C4S

I am also thinking about other parts than suspension, like engine mounts? CV joints?

Other wise on the supsension which control arms would you change first? what about suspension top bushing, could the suspension strut be shot ( seem to do the job to me)

So far I changed the cheapest thing I could .... sway bar links and sway bar bushings ( all tighten up with the right torque )

Thanks

Hi Cartel,

I am trying to solve my issue on the front suspension for 2 years

Everything on my car is new changed under guaranty, and I mean everything( at the exception of the differential and the cardan) and it still rattles at low speed, I might have a gremlin hiding somewhere...

What Porsche mechanics always advised to change first when you have rattle are the sway bar links and the sway bar bushings, it is inexpensive and solves most of issues, but you can first try to re torque those sway bar links, the torque is 65 NM if it solve the issue I would advise to buy the new bolts ( the long ones) and glue them with loctite blue thread lock, first torque at 50 NM unlock 90° and retorque at 65NM

Then you can have the suspension domes ( silent block on top of the strut), see if yours are torqued correctly ( 3 bolts ) 33NM, they also age quickly

Then you have the control arms, my coffin control arms were shot at 115 000 KM and were making an old door noise, but the rattle did not come from them, trailing arms are also very robust on the 997 and I changed them with no effect

Struts are to be changed when they don't do their job anymore, no need to get in there unless you really feel that they are shot

Steering elements are useless to even consider, I have all elements changed at 125 000KM and they were like new ( include rack)

Proceed with method otherwise you will be spending a lot of money for nothing, those cars are more robust that certain forums are saying

Best way to identify rattle is to have headset with a microphone and try part by part, that's what my porsche center is doing next

Good luck and tell us what you find

The P is the Porsche logo for spare parts, it means this is a original kit, maybe the short shifting one

Sport exhaust is marked as XLF in the option list

You also have a small and a big exhaust pipe on each side

Most important you have button on the dashboard to bypass part of the exhaust muffler ( looks like 2 exhaust pipes)

Exhaust make more noise when they become older

Can also be that your exhaust is not stock anymore

And many other cars run on 0W30 without issues, The M97.01 engine is somewhat fragile, would Porsche have tried to fix the cylinder scorching with change of oil spec

"sport" mode increases the shifting pressure in the tip, maybe this is what should have ( I don't have sport Chrono on mine)

Pressing the Sport Chrono switch when the gearshift lever is in shift gate “D”

boosts the basic gear-changing map. This ups the engine speeds for gearchanging

and renders gear-changing sportier by shortening the shifting times.

The reduction in shifting times results from faster filling of the clutches with

oil (response time) and a higher oil pressure level when performing the shift

operation. These measures lend the shift operations a more dynamic and

noticeably sportier character. The shift points are then adjusted between this

boosted basic gear-changing map and the sport gear-changing map according

to the present driving style. System downshifts are initiated at lower

acceleration and higher speeds (in comparison with when the Sport Chrono

switch is off) to increase agility.