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thescottrobinson

02 Boxster with 27K Engine Blown. Is it the IMS Failure

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Uh oh!!

I just bought a second hand 2004 Boxtster with 29k on it and I think I am going to have a heart attack. :o

I purchased it from a dealership and got the warranty they actually insisted upon. :unsure: Looks like I had better

dig it out and read the fine print.

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The status of my dealings with Porsche:

I have received a letter from Porsche that states they refuse to pay for a new engine. They have refused to call me back and discuss. I have started a complain with BBB in Atlanta and have contacted several other consumer groups.

IF ANYONE else has experience this or any other complete engine failure on low mileage Boxsters please email me. I want to get as many cases as possible.

-Scott Robinson

Scott, I will probably hear from Porsche in the next day or two telling me "get lost". My engine has metal filings throughout. However, two class action firms have called me back and one of them is already sueing Audi/VW for something. The firm is Chemicles & Tikellis. Look them up and call them. Ask for Ben Johns and tell him you are a fellow Renntech member and I suggested you call him. I told him I would.

Bob

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There is a bearing on the end of the shaft. I have been told Porsche went from a double to a single bearing. I was told the year but forget - I think 2001. This is why you seldom hear of intermediate shaft failures on the older cars.

Picture is a 2003 2.7.

post-6728-1216512921_thumb.jpg

TP, can the bearing be removed from the case and shaft from behind that cover? Thanks.

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There is a bearing on the end of the shaft. I have been told Porsche went from a double to a single bearing. I was told the year but forget - I think 2001. This is why you seldom hear of intermediate shaft failures on the older cars.

Picture is a 2003 2.7.

post-6728-1216512921_thumb.jpg

TP, can the bearing be removed from the case and shaft from behind that cover? Thanks.

Usually there is a lot more damage than just the bearing (a whole lot more).

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The engine has to be taken apart to get to the bearing. The dealership did not even bother to open up the engine to see if it could be fixed. A replacement engine was on order at the time of the picture.

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There is a bearing on the end of the shaft. I have been told Porsche went from a double to a single bearing. I was told the year but forget - I think 2001. This is why you seldom hear of intermediate shaft failures on the older cars.

Picture is a 2003 2.7.

post-6728-1216512921_thumb.jpg

TP, can the bearing be removed from the case and shaft from behind that cover? Thanks.

Usually there is a lot more damage than just the bearing (a whole lot more).

I was wondering if it could be replaced before failure. According to Tool Pants, guess not. Thanks.

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post-6728-1216568206_thumb.jpg

TP, In that photo the bearing appears to be a ball bearing. Do you have any pics of the older style bearings? I thought they were roller type.

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As mikefocke mentioned once before,,,

There is a UK company that could replace with 05 997 larger bearing, larger effective seal.

http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/water_cooled/shaft_tech

There is a bearing on the end of the shaft. I have been told Porsche went from a double to a single bearing. I was told the year but forget - I think 2001. This is why you seldom hear of intermediate shaft failures on the older cars.

Picture is a 2003 2.7.

post-6728-1216512921_thumb.jpg

TP, can the bearing be removed from the case and shaft from behind that cover? Thanks.

Usually there is a lot more damage than just the bearing (a whole lot more).

I was wondering if it could be replaced before failure. According to Tool Pants, guess not. Thanks.

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As mikefocke mentioned once before,,,

There is a UK company that could replace with 05 997 larger bearing, larger effective seal.

http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/water_cooled/shaft_tech

There is a bearing on the end of the shaft. I have been told Porsche went from a double to a single bearing. I was told the year but forget - I think 2001. This is why you seldom hear of intermediate shaft failures on the older cars.

Picture is a 2003 2.7.

post-6728-1216512921_thumb.jpg

TP, can the bearing be removed from the case and shaft from behind that cover? Thanks.

Usually there is a lot more damage than just the bearing (a whole lot more).

I was wondering if it could be replaced before failure. According to Tool Pants, guess not. Thanks.

I thought I read that there was a change on the 2.7 engines starting in 2004. Was it the bearing being upgraded??

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If you are forced towards a 15K bill and you have some time on your hands:

http://www.986fix.com/

is about to publish a manual for the home mechanic to rebuild these things! He had a similar problem and when Porsche refused a replacement he went on a bit of a mission.....seriously impressive videos on YouTube!

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Dear Bob and Scott,

I am in the same situation. Just replaced the engine of a 2002 Boxster due to IMS failure. Porsche USA does not want to fess up responsibility for the flawed design. Not even partial help!!! I just can't believe it!!!

I called Chemicles & Tikellis as you suggested, but they decided not to go for it. Do you know of anybody else who may want to follow through? Any suggestion/advice will be greatly appreciated!!!

Dan

The status of my dealings with Porsche:

I have received a letter from Porsche that states they refuse to pay for a new engine. They have refused to call me back and discuss. I have started a complain with BBB in Atlanta and have contacted several other consumer groups.

IF ANYONE else has experience this or any other complete engine failure on low mileage Boxsters please email me. I want to get as many cases as possible.

-Scott Robinson

Scott, I will probably hear from Porsche in the next day or two telling me "get lost". My engine has metal filings throughout. However, two class action firms have called me back and one of them is already sueing Audi/VW for something. The firm is Chemicles & Tikellis. Look them up and call them. Ask for Ben Johns and tell him you are a fellow Renntech member and I suggested you call him. I told him I would.

Bob

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mileage on your 02 986?

Dear Bob and Scott,

I am in the same situation. Just replaced the engine of a 2002 Boxster due to IMS failure. Porsche USA does not want to fess up responsibility for the flawed design. Not even partial help!!! I just can't believe it!!!

I called Chemicles & Tikellis as you suggested, but they decided not to go for it. Do you know of anybody else who may want to follow through? Any suggestion/advice will be greatly appreciated!!!

Dan

The status of my dealings with Porsche:

I have received a letter from Porsche that states they refuse to pay for a new engine. They have refused to call me back and discuss. I have started a complain with BBB in Atlanta and have contacted several other consumer groups.

IF ANYONE else has experience this or any other complete engine failure on low mileage Boxsters please email me. I want to get as many cases as possible.

-Scott Robinson

Scott, I will probably hear from Porsche in the next day or two telling me "get lost". My engine has metal filings throughout. However, two class action firms have called me back and one of them is already sueing Audi/VW for something. The firm is Chemicles & Tikellis. Look them up and call them. Ask for Ben Johns and tell him you are a fellow Renntech member and I suggested you call him. I told him I would.

Bob

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Juniinc,

It had ~45K when it happened.

Dan

mileage on your 02 986?

Dear Bob and Scott,

I am in the same situation. Just replaced the engine of a 2002 Boxster due to IMS failure. Porsche USA does not want to fess up responsibility for the flawed design. Not even partial help!!! I just can't believe it!!!

I called Chemicles & Tikellis as you suggested, but they decided not to go for it. Do you know of anybody else who may want to follow through? Any suggestion/advice will be greatly appreciated!!!

Dan

The status of my dealings with Porsche:

I have received a letter from Porsche that states they refuse to pay for a new engine. They have refused to call me back and discuss. I have started a complain with BBB in Atlanta and have contacted several other consumer groups.

IF ANYONE else has experience this or any other complete engine failure on low mileage Boxsters please email me. I want to get as many cases as possible.

-Scott Robinson

Scott, I will probably hear from Porsche in the next day or two telling me "get lost". My engine has metal filings throughout. However, two class action firms have called me back and one of them is already sueing Audi/VW for something. The firm is Chemicles & Tikellis. Look them up and call them. Ask for Ben Johns and tell him you are a fellow Renntech member and I suggested you call him. I told him I would.

Bob

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The engines that we have torn down to study have had similar reports of failure when the IMS lets go...

But most recently we have seen a rash of failures from worn timing chains that shear bits that end up being picked up by the scavenge pumps. This ends up resulting in a jammed scavenge pump that shears the pump drive as well as breaking the drive that it engages into, on the cam sprocket.

In one instance this led to a catastrophic failure when the valve timing was advanced enough to contact every piston to the valves as the cam sprocket slipped on the cam drive when the pump seizure occured.

The bits in the oil may be from a worn timing chain that has lost pieces... Like this one.

DSC_0145.JPG

DSC_1018.JPG

That led to this...

DSC_0010.JPG

Which led to this

DSC_0009.JPG

The engine only had 32K on it.

The timing chains in these engines seem to wear quite quickly as every engine we have torn into had worn chains. There is another presumption that we believe attributes to this but if I mentioned it a battle would erupt about oils :-)

We have seen several IMS that have not totally failed yet that are filled partially with oil and were ready to let go.. We believe that the oil inside the IMS is can create out of balance issues under acceleration and cruise at some speeds and that may work hard on the IMS bearings and lead to a failure.

We are documenting every failure we see and trying to establish trends to help understand what happens, when it happens and why, so we can upgrade to avoid future occurrences.

We have a solution for this and it is being tested now. It does NOT use Porsche components

Edited by Jake Raby

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notorious IMS failure+cracking sleeved cyl liner+ now timing chain falling apart,,,

& There still isn't a factory recall? WOW

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notorious IMS failure+cracking sleeved cyl liner+ now timing chain falling apart,,,

& There still isn't a factory recall? WOW

Yep and Mobil 1 keeps feeding them money getting the "recommendation" too..

It's OK, we are certainly on top of solving the problems they created...

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notorious IMS failure+cracking sleeved cyl liner+ now timing chain falling apart,,,

& There still isn't a factory recall? WOW

Yep and Mobil 1 keeps feeding them money getting the "recommendation" too..

It's OK, we are certainly on top of solving the problems they created...

I couldn't use Mobil in my STi, for some reason it burned through it like a hooker on a meth binge. Don't ask :offtopic: I have been using it in the Boxster because of Porsches recommendation, but have not been comfortable with it after seeing many oil analysis. Jake, what would you recommend? My car is well past warranty and there would be no hope of getting any help if it blew due to me being the second owner and the previous owners lack of documentation for service. Due to that, I am not really worried about Porsches recommendations or suggestions.

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I'd be leery to make any recommendations at this time because they'd not be supported by fact or empirical data... Lets just say that I have seen similar wear in other engines that have used Mobil 1. we have a been working on a 36 month study on oils for Vintage engines and have learned a ton from that experience that can be globally applied to any engine.

I am using my Boxster equipped with an Intellistick data logging system to measure oil degredation over time with different oils to try and establish some baselines. I have some graphs that we can post at some point, but I'd want to try several other oils out with the system before ever making any recommendation.

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Been following this post - I have a 2001 Boxster with a little over 17,000 miles on it.

I bought it a little over 2 years ago CPO from a dealer.

It's out of warranty now and this whole thing has me concerned.

I have owned 4 other Porsches over the years and never had any serious problems with any of them.

I would hope that if it happened to me that Porsche would help out in some way since it was a certified pre-owned car.

But judging by some of the post here I would not hold my breath.

Greg M

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One can't confuse Porsche "pre BBoxster" with the post Boxster and 996 days as far as vehicle build quality, especially the engines.

I have always worked with older Porsce cars until the development of our Boxster/ 996 program a couple of years ago. The first time I tore into a Boxster engine I could have sworn it was a Honda or other disposable unit and thats what they intended it to be.

Unfortunately the only real Porsches today are the GT cars that still use the aircooled engine as a foundation...After seeing the new 09 engine design I can only hope they have addressed the engine failures that have plagued the Boxster since it's conception.. even if they did there is still more than a decade of marginal units on the road that don't fill the foot tracks of their predocessors very well.

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