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Have been thinking about buying a new one for the last year or so.

Took the S out for a spin at Sunset.

The old girl has gotten fat, a bit soft and spongy and she is wearing lots more jewelry and acts more refined. Her edge is missing. She is big into video games and tech now. Sadly, she even has her name tattooed on her backside P O R S C H E.

Its like seeing your old 112 pound high school girlfriend at a 30 year class reunion with all the added years of cheese burger chubbiness embracing her once athletic figure.

Very disappointing.

Edited by JimPDX
  • Upvote 1

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Jim:

LOL! I almost fell out of my chair. Kudos to you...VERY well written description of your experience!

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

Regards, Maurice.

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I have to agree. I wouldn't consider trading my 997.. I do like the look of the 991 but not the feel. Too many aids. I guess that is progress though. Maybe it will grow on me. I don't think so though...Too much like a BMW...And don't even get me started on the badging.. Who the heck "green lighted" that blemish...????

Edited by phillipj

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Hate to tell you, but there is no way a casual test drive - of any test drive- of the 991 can give a clue about just how much more capable the 991 is compared to the old cars. You need to live with one and use it as intended.

The suspension is so much more supple and better controlled in any model that it is confusing for traditionalists - and more so if you have Sport Chrono and try the various settings. PASM Sport suspension (-20 mm ride high and stiffer springs and sways) totally blows away any issue about "dead" steering. No dance, just better turn in and precision at any speed.

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That's your opinion. The Niissan GTR is faster than the Porsche Turbo.. Does that mean that it has a soul or the driver feedback of the TT?. Just because the 991 is more cabable of getting through corners quicker doesn't mean it's more fun to drive than the 997. When you turn off all the switches can you still drive it to it's maximum? Doubt it.. I guess I'm just a "confused traditionalist" and must be crazy to not to be "amazed" by the 991. I have driven one (a S with SC) several times and taken it on my favorite twisty roads. I still like my 997 Turbo (and my former 997 S) better..

More electronic aids do not make a more exciting car (quicker yes) but not more exciting...

:soapbox:

Edited by phillipj
  • Upvote 2

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I have yet to test drive the new 991, the looks are extremely exceptional, thought I could do without the overbadging at the rear. The cockpit looks sharp and well designed as well. However, I'm not so sure about a few things such as the new electro-mechanical steering, and the abundance of driver aids. I've had mixed reviews about the new steering, some say its better some say you lose that feel to the road.

Being on the same boat as philipj, I find myself a "confused traditionalist" as well. I love my Porsches to have the driver's feel as in the older 911's. The ones that are not the easiest car to pick up and drive and there is that in between feeling of intimacy with your vehicle, learning her curves, how she likes to be driven, how unforgiving she will be if you don't give her driver's respect, and also that rewarding feeling when you master driving her. These are all the things that make the experience of driving a Porsche unforgettable, like a mistress in the blue light evening.

I do applaud Porsche though at their evolutionary steps towards the 911, it's extremely hard to please the Porsche "traditionalists" and at the same time evolve and utilize 21st century technology to keep their sales high. All I know is I can't wait to step out of my 997 and test drive the 991 in hopes that my I will still be baffled and overwhelmed with indescribable emotions from my experience driving the world's best driver's car! :cheers:

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I am not sure what the blowback is regarding the PORSCHE lettering on the rear deck. Looking back at some of the most "traditional", "classic", Porsches over the past 48 years I see chrome PORSCHE on many if not most. In fact all of the 911's from 1964-1973 are badged with PORSCHE on the back. The first year I cannot find the lettering is on the 1974-75, clearly not a high water mark for Porsche.

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It's not that is says "Porsche" it that is says P O R S C H E. Over spaced letters combined with model number below in a different font. It looks horrible. Porsche (from any era) has always been tasteful.

A friend who is the manager at Rusnak Porsche told me 75% of buyers of the 991 have the letters removed after purchase. The either stay with PORSCHE of the model but not both.

Compare pictures of the 996, 997 and the 991 rear emblem.. You don't see a problem? Maybe they could spell out "Made in Germany" as well...

post-7267-0-25089800-1338832236_thumb.jp

post-7267-0-92905200-1338832253_thumb.jp

post-7267-0-33972400-1338832272_thumb.jp

Edited by phillipj

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I've done both the dealership test drive, and now the Porsche World Roadshow track drive. My impressions to contrast with yours:

  • The car is definitely larger, although not overly so. Despite this, cabin space is still about par with the last model, you just get more dashboard and a bit of head and shoulder room.
  • You make an allegory about weight, but the truth is that the car weighs less in similar spec to my 997.
  • Hop in a time machine to 1963 to see P O R S C H E spelled out in big letters (gold colored, no less!) and you'll have a better understanding of why it's that way on the 991. Perhaps unnecessary, but nothing a bit of dental floss won't fix if you don't like it. I do. I could do without the full explanation of the model designation that goes below though.
  • On the street, the 991 rides like a Lexus midsize sedan. The sound deading is up, the damping more refined, and no tire howl like the older models. It's so quiet that someone thought it fun to pipe in some PVC so you can hear the intake growl when you get on it. It's schtick, but it sells. The steering feel is accurate and without slop, but it doesn't transmit every expansion joint or pebble anymore. I personally miss that.
  • Once you get on a track, the steering feels exactly as it should. The car is planted and neutral. There's little left of the rear bias, although tip-in is still sharp. Still eerily quiet, but with the windows down and the throttle flat on a track that won't be an issue.

In short, the car feels soft until you want it not to. As much as this contrasts with the traditional Porsche ethos, it's clear that only Porsche could make a car that commutes and carves like this one.

If you don't like the new 991, check out the 981. It feels and looks fantastic. It makes me miss my old Boxster, and it might be the replacement for my 997.

Mark

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The 981 is amazing. Porsche out did themselves on the Boxster... I can't wait to se one "live".

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I traded my GTSfor a new 991. The low end torque is a little disappointing, but overall I really like its handling. The steering is crisp in sport mode, and it makes its way round the track very well. It does have a few modern touches, but such is to be expected. I have owned 10 porsches, and have not been dismayed by any of them. My fav was an 87 cab with Bosch wheels. if you ran over a pebble your arse would feel it. but was it better than the 991? not hardly. just different

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Have been thinking about buying a new one for the last year or so.

Took the S out for a spin at Sunset.

The old girl has gotten fat, a bit soft and spongy and she is wearing lots more jewelry and acts more refined. Her edge is missing. She is big into video games and tech now. Sadly, she even has her name tattooed on her backside P O R S C H E.

Its like seeing your old 112 pound high school girlfriend at a 30 year class reunion with all the added years of cheese burger chubbiness embracing her once athletic figure.

Very disappointing.

----Its like seeing your old 112 lb girlfriend across the room at your high school reunion. She's that has filled out that dress just right, she's more confident, bold, & commands most respect than ever. You married her & now everyone else wishes they could get a ride...... Aren't you glad you chose her over any other girl 30 years ago. PORSCHE

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porsche1234...

I think you've been reading to many romance novels my friend!

Edited by JimPDX

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tried the 991 during the summer with a ******** of a salesman in the passenger's seat which did not enhance the experience. every time i got even close to the speed limit he told me to watch the speed limit. it was supposed to be an hour test drive, but it ended up being only fifteen minutes because he really got on my nerves. needless to say, it did not leave me with really any impression of the car. two things i did notice were that 1) overall ride quality was better than my 996 and 2) the steering felt weird to me cornering at about 30 kilometers per hour.

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It seems to me, from the inception of the 996 through to the present car, the Porsche evolutionary process has transformed the 911 from a small lightweight sports car (think 993 and earlier) into a grand tourer laden with all the associated creature comforts. Perhaps Porsche is repositioning the 911 in order to give the Cayman and Boxster more room for further development, after all, there is no denying how much has been left on the table when it comes to Porsche's mid engine offerings.

While the mechanical grip achieved upon acceleration by the rear engine platform cannot be matched by it's mid engine counterpart, the vehicle dynamics of the Cayman are superior in all other ways due to its lower polar moment. In light of this, I believe the 911 will continue to evolve into a GT car and the Cayman will eventually come into it's own. I am convinced at some point in the future Porsche Motorsport will develop a Cup Cayman much like it has done with the GT3 Cup Car.

I know this concept is not popular with many Porschephiles out there, however one does not have to look vary far to see a similar scenario. Ferrari did the vary same thing with the Dino and later with the dreaded 308. Like the Cayman the Dino was a less expensive model with a mid engine setup. At that time in the late 60s the Ferrari brand was synonymous with front engine V12s, so much so in fact that the Dino was not graced with the prancing horse badge! And yet today the 458 Italia has earned it's place amongst the most capable of Ferraris, competing in both ALMS and ELMS! But enough with the Italians...

As a GT, the new 991 is far more palatable, it is a car with a new purpose and a different audience. One only has to look inside at the exquisite interior to see what I'm talking about. Gone are the days of 993 simplicity and yet, to Porsche's credit, they are still working tirelessly to improve the dynamics of the car. By elongating the wheel base of the 991 Porsche has effectively moved the engine further forward! This alone makes the 991 the best 911 ever, but like all things in life there are always compromises and the 991 has its fair share.

I'm looking forward to to seeing and perhaps if I'm lucky, driving the 991 GT3 RS. Although I will be disappointed if it is not available with a manual gearbox... Because in the end, I too yearn for the pure driving experience that has all but vanished from modern cars.

Edited by Little 't'

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They spaced the letters out that way on the back of the 1986 944 Turbo and I don't remember you complaining about that. Same with the 1972 911T and the 1969 911S, just to name 3 examples of multiple eras.

I actually think it looks great. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I like the way my beholder sees it.

You could always just dental-floss it all off and let people guess if your car is a Carrera or a Carrera S.

It's not that is says "Porsche" it that is says P O R S C H E. Over spaced letters combined with model number below in a different font. It looks horrible. Porsche (from any era) has always been tasteful.

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It's not that is says "Porsche" it that is says P O R S C H E. Over spaced letters combined with model number below in a different font. It looks horrible. Porsche (from any era) has always been tasteful.A friend who is the manager at Rusnak Porsche told me 75% of buyers of the 991 have the letters removed after purchase. The either stay with PORSCHE of the model but not both.Compare pictures of the 996, 997 and the 991 rear emblem.. You don't see a problem? Maybe they could spell out "Made in Germany" as well...

I agree. With the different Font and the spacing etc....The P O R S C H E written on the back looks terrible in my opinion.

Regards

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Great Thread.

Having owned six 911s and driven both 7speed and PDK 991S's I figured I'd throw in my 6 cents.

Yes, the 911 is slowly getting larger and it does not give you the same connection to the road as it use too. Lets face it, the days of manual steering and clutches are gone forever (unless you are crazy enough to get a Caterham 7.) But, it is still a timelessly beautiful car and it is still the ultimate road weapon. Those of you who have driven a Ferrari, a Lambo, a Corvette, or a Viper know exactly what I mean. The 911 is still way smaller than them all and with those elegantly thin C-pillars offers a panoramic view of the road. You know exactly where all four corners are and can dive in and out of traffic with utter abandon, stop on a dime. I simply feel safer in a 911, any 911 than any other car. The current cars are safer and more powerful than ever and I definately do not miss the tranny, clutch and lag of the early Turbos. I'm also not nuts about the headlights in the 996 series. My personal favorites are the 993 TT and my current 997 C4S which are both crazy cars. It is enchanting how these cars have different personalities. My C4S does this real trashy burbling growl when you start it up cold. Big smiles every time.

The new series is true to form. It does not feel larger to me. I do not like the PDK but then I guess I'm an old fart and conseated enough to think my right arm is the best automatic going. The 7 speed shifts well. The solenoid on 7th is totally transparent. The transaxle has more lash than I would like. I feel a bit weird with the shift lever up so high. The steering is nicely weighted, accurate and lifeless. The 997's steering dances in your hands. You feel the road and everything wrong with your front wheels/tires. I'll miss that. Hopefully, Porsche is getting enough grief from us that they will fix it before the 991 Turbo comes along. Most regular folks will unfortunately think the steering is better. These are also the people who would prefer a gentle voice. A 911 is SUPPOSED to howl like an angry chain saw. The sound symposer deal is worse than silly. Give me the aftermarket exhaust please. But, what I miss most in the post 993 cars is the wonderful click the doors made when you closed them. It said I am one tough SOB.

I always delete the badging. Way easier to keep the back side buffed out nicely. The Nissan GTR is the ugliest thing on 4 wheels I have ever seen.

Edited by Mijostyn

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NEWS FLASH. According to the press the steering issue has been corrected with the 991 Turbo. I suspect the fix will migrate to the other cars. I will be test driving the car as soon as it arrives. I get the first customer car my dealer is allotted! (still a year away :-( )

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Dunno, I think it depends more on what you are expecting and matching the right model to your expectations. With the extensive sub-divisions of the model line, you can find just about anything you want, from a soft chick-car cruiser to a pseudo race car. Pick the wrong one for your expectations and you will be disappointed.

I just bought a 991 C4S MT to use as a daily driver. I test drove several different versions and settled on this as the best for my wants/needs in this vehicle. No way that I'm selling my 98 C2S though....nor do I want to use the 993 as a daily driver.

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I have waited 7 years for the magic 400 hp Cayman cup car which never materialized. Then I waited several years on the techno marvel 991 which has proved to be a big let down so far in my book. I LOVE the narrow rear lights but that is about the extent of my approval of the new iron. To each his own-just not my cup of tea. The 2S test drive was very disapointing. Too much like a BMW 750 or an S class Benz for my taste. I am now in the process of selling my 07 Cayman S and buying a 2500 mi example of a triple black 997 2010 C2S convertible from a buddy. it sat in a warehouse and was never driven except to maintain the fluids and change the oil. I will try something different for a change-never owned a ragtop before-and I will wait to see what develops with the steering issues on the 991. This will most likely be my last 'Proper Porsche". The new GT3 would look great after a dental floss treatment on the horrid badge treatment .At some point I will most likely end up with a GT 3 or a turbo after i get past the horrible badges. The Chris Harris U tube clip is pretty convincing in reference to the new GT 3. He reported that th GT3 rear steering setup is nothing like the present production examples.

For now I will stick with the 997 for nights on the town, beach trips and use the MB C63 for daily stuff and wild romps through the backroads.

The P O R C H carrera s badging is truly awful IMHO. I vote for the fat chick at the HS reunion sitting next to the desert bar waiting for round 3.. If I ever own a 991 the badges will be in the dumpster before I leave the lot. Real shame

I am leaning toward the small 911 badge or none at all on the new (2010) 997. My Cayman S badge is Basalt black to matching color and looks great. A local outfit-Bumperplugs-does a nice job on color matched trim/badges.

Plus 1 on the nasty exhaust notes-I moved to another state to get around the stupid emissions testing. My Cayman has a Borla-soon to be switched back to stock for sale purposes-loved it for 35k miles and 7 years. My neighbors did not share the love for some reason. The MB C63 does not need any mods-really nasty right out of the box. :thumbup:

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Boy, all this vitriol over badging. 5 minutes with some tape and a putty knife and it is all off. Check out the white 991 Turbo in this issue of Christopherous. COOL CAR.

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Interesting post. I have driven the 991 and after having two 996s I think its a very big modern day improvement. I loved my 996 but after a while, I just thought the car was....old. Don't get me wrong, great on the track and my wife drove a C4S Cab as a daily driver. She really liked it. It was an exceptional looking car. But drive it 2 hours to the cottage and you are ready to sell the thing as soon as you get back on Monday. I found myself drawn to my BMW 3 series and now I have a 5 series too which is great. Crisp handling, excellent dynamics and traction are fundamental in my view, but on a day to day basis, you need to have a balance of things including ride comfort, even if it is your third car...at least I do. And whether we like it or not, Navigation, Bluetooth, Parking Sensors are just part of modern day automobiles. It is a departure of sorts, but really that happened with the 996. The horse left the barn in 1999. Paying 80k for a good used copy Porsche and having to check you paper maps is not on, in todays automotive market. That is what drove me nuts about my 996, it didn't have those things and I needed Bluetooth at a minimum and I use navigation all the time. I find everything about the 991 better. Performance inside and out, good looks and as for badging, you can always take it off. And the ride is perfect in my view. My 996 had a fatal engine failure and so I am waiting for a good 991.

Edited by PeterC4

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