Jump to content

The RennTech.org community is Member supported!  Please consider an ANNUAL donation to help keep this site operating.
Click here to Donate

Welcome to RennTech.org Community, Guest

There are many great features available to you once you register at RennTech.org
You are free to view posts here, but you must log in to reply to existing posts, or to start your own new topic. Like most online communities, there are costs involved to maintain a site like this - so we encourage our members to donate. All donations go to the costs operating and maintaining this site. We prefer that guests take part in our community and we offer a lot in return to those willing to join our corner of the Porsche world. This site is 99 percent member supported (less than 1 percent comes from advertising) - so please consider an annual donation to keep this site running.

Here are some of the features available - once you register at RennTech.org

  • View Classified Ads
  • DIY Tutorials
  • Porsche TSB Listings (limited)
  • VIN Decoder
  • Special Offers
  • OBD II P-Codes
  • Paint Codes
  • Registry
  • Videos System
  • View Reviews
  • and get rid of this welcome message

It takes just a few minutes to register, and it's FREE

Contributing Members also get these additional benefits:
(you become a Contributing Member by donating money to the operation of this site)

  • No ads - advertisements are removed
  • Access the Contributors Only Forum
  • Contributing Members Only Downloads
  • Send attachments with PMs
  • All image/file storage limits are substantially increased for all Contributing Members
  • Option Codes Lookup
  • VIN Option Lookups (limited)

Recommended Posts

I've driven 7K since I bought my 2007 C4S 1.5 years ago and have decided to change my oil/filter prior to the Porsche recommended 15K because of what I've read on this forum. I've read thru the DIY oil change forums but thinking about going thru a dealer since I no experience doing it myself. Few questions:

1) What is the approximate price I would expect to pay a non-dealer for an oil change?

2) I have a case of Mobil 0W-40 but a local guy said he uses his own oil. If he also uses 0W-40 from a different manufacturer or even 5W-40, is it possible to mix; like if I have to add oil can I use the Mobil oil?

3) Do I need to change my oil filter and if so is there a special brand I should consider?

4) Should I have them install a magnetic drain plug and if so how difficult is this (i.e. should I need to pay extra)?

5) Does anyone know any reputable non-dealers near Iowa City for an oil change? What would be the best way to find this out? PCA?

Any other questions I should ask the oil change guy that I can't think of?

Link to post
Share on other sites
    You can remove these ads by becoming a Contributing Member.

Hey Hawkeye:

1) A dealer will charge you about $8 per quart of oil (8-9 quarts) plus at least 1 hour labor. Maybe even 2 hours. Figure about $125/hour from a dealership. Expect to pay about $285 for an oil change at a dealership on a 997. An indy shop will charge you about 1 hour labor ($100ish) and about $25 for the oil filter. Bring in you own oil, or use his if you like the selection. So, figure about $200 for an indy shop.

2) How old is your case of Mobil 0W40? Not a great idea to mix brands of oils. It's OK to mix same brands of different viscosity, but always best to select the viscosity you want. Old cases of oil WILL pick up moisture, even in closed, sealed, bottles.

3) Always change your oil filters. Use OEM filters. You can buy from places like Sunset in bulk if you start to do you own maintenance.

4) They should NOT charge you extra to install a new magnetic drain plug.

In the future, change your oil yearly, regardless of the low mileage. Maybe consider sending an oil sample to Blackstone, and establish your UOA baseline. You are probably due for a brake fluid flush, too. This should be done every 2 years. FYI.

Edited by White987S
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

In general, it is possible to mix full synthetics from different manufacturer’s; exactly what properties you would end up with is a matter of speculation, but mix oils of the same type (e.g.: full synthetics) would cause no real harm.

Stored oil will not pick up moisture; oil by nature of its composition is hydrophobic, meaning oil is not compatible or misible with water, and therefore incapable of absorbing it. A real problem, however, is that the additive packages tend to separate out from the blend if stored too long. Once separated, these additives cannot easily be re-blended. All oil carry a date of manufacture code, an internet search for a particular brand will define how the code works. That said, I would not use an oil that is more than two to three years old, depending upon the brand. Newer type oils (low ZDDP types) are worse in this respect than older synthetics.

.

Edited by JFP in PA
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Stored oil will not pick up moisture; oil by nature of its composition is hydrophobic, meaning oil is not compatible or misible with water, and therefore incapable of absorbing it. A real problem, however, is that the additive packages tend to separate out from the blend if stored too long. Once separated, these additives cannot easily be re-blended. All oil carry a date of manufacture code, an internet search for a particular brand will define how the code works. That said, I would not use an oil that is more than two to three years old, depending upon the brand. Newer type oils (low ZDDP types) are worse in this respect than older synthetics.

.

Jeff, I disagree with you a little. I recently read about this from Brad Penn Oil (semi synthetic oil):

Thanks for using our Brad Penn® oils.

The ‘shelf life’ of a product such as motor oil is dependent upon a number of factors that make each situation unique. We can, however, offer some ‘general’ guidelines and comments.

Storage conditions are the key to product preservation and quality. Unopened plastic quarts of motor oil stored indoors in a cool, dry environment (preferably not in direct contact with concrete or other moisture-porous materials – i.e. stored off the floor on shelves, on pallets, on blocks, etc.), free of excess heat and humidity and not subjected to wide ambient temperature fluctuations typically remain suitable for use during an average storage period of 3 years. Sitting idle for long periods of time without agitation (like sitting static on a shelf during storage) is one of the most stressing of situations for a motor oil. Also, it is a little known fact that the plastic bottles typically used for packaging motor oil (i.e. HDPE – High Density Polyethylene) are not totally impervious to moisture infiltration from the environment. Therefore when stored in areas of high humidity like damp basements or in non-climate controlled garages or sheds in areas of the country where ambient humidity is high during long periods of time, the product quality can be jeopardized. Opened and partial containers of product are more susceptible to contamination when stored under unfavorable conditions. Obviously the ideal situation is to purchase only as much product as will be used immediately, but as we all know this is not always practical. This is where the correct storage procedures come into play. One further note….when the stored product container(s) is opened you should take careful note of the color and consistency of the oil as it flows out. Motor oil should be clear and bright and of uniform consistency. Visual indication of possible moisture contamination and/or product separation are ‘streaks’ of different, darker colored material in the pour stream or lighter ‘cream colored’ streaks due to moisture.

Thank you once again for your use of our fine line of Brad Penn® products. If you have any additional questions please call our Technical Service department at (814) 368-1200.

As mentioned in the original post, the HDPE bottles that motor oil is packaged in ARE NOT totally impervious to moisture infiltration, even if the bottle is sealed. Exterior moisture from the atmosphere like high humidity in damp basements or climates where humidity is high a large number of days each year, the moisture can enter between the molecules of the plastic bottle and also through the non-hermetically sealed cap and liner. The longer the exposure to such conditions (i.e. the longer the oil is stored under these conditions) the more likely the moisture contamination will infiltrate the sealed bottle. The reason it was mentioned that the bottles shouldn’t be stored in direct contact with concrete but should ideally be stored off the floor on pallets, shelves, etc. is the fact that unless properly and completely sealed, concrete will allow moisture from the dirt base underneath to penetrate and come into direct contact with the porous plastic bottle……hence the concern. As an example, have you ever tried to store a cardboard box directly on an unsealed concrete floor for any length of time……what happens? Moisture from the concrete floor causes deterioration of the cardboard lattice structure, and sometimes even mold and mildew form on the cardboard.

That was the reference to the concrete issue in the earlier post. Thanks for allowing the clarification.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

Stored oil will not pick up moisture; oil by nature of its composition is hydrophobic, meaning oil is not compatible or misible with water, and therefore incapable of absorbing it. A real problem, however, is that the additive packages tend to separate out from the blend if stored too long. Once separated, these additives cannot easily be re-blended. All oil carry a date of manufacture code, an internet search for a particular brand will define how the code works. That said, I would not use an oil that is more than two to three years old, depending upon the brand. Newer type oils (low ZDDP types) are worse in this respect than older synthetics.

.

Jeff, I disagree with you a little. I recently read about this from Brad Penn Oil (semi synthetic oil):

Thanks for using our Brad Penn® oils.

The ‘shelf life’ of a product such as motor oil is dependent upon a number of factors that make each situation unique. We can, however, offer some ‘general’ guidelines and comments.

Storage conditions are the key to product preservation and quality. Unopened plastic quarts of motor oil stored indoors in a cool, dry environment (preferably not in direct contact with concrete or other moisture-porous materials – i.e. stored off the floor on shelves, on pallets, on blocks, etc.), free of excess heat and humidity and not subjected to wide ambient temperature fluctuations typically remain suitable for use during an average storage period of 3 years. Sitting idle for long periods of time without agitation (like sitting static on a shelf during storage) is one of the most stressing of situations for a motor oil. Also, it is a little known fact that the plastic bottles typically used for packaging motor oil (i.e. HDPE – High Density Polyethylene) are not totally impervious to moisture infiltration from the environment. Therefore when stored in areas of high humidity like damp basements or in non-climate controlled garages or sheds in areas of the country where ambient humidity is high during long periods of time, the product quality can be jeopardized. Opened and partial containers of product are more susceptible to contamination when stored under unfavorable conditions. Obviously the ideal situation is to purchase only as much product as will be used immediately, but as we all know this is not always practical. This is where the correct storage procedures come into play. One further note….when the stored product container(s) is opened you should take careful note of the color and consistency of the oil as it flows out. Motor oil should be clear and bright and of uniform consistency. Visual indication of possible moisture contamination and/or product separation are ‘streaks’ of different, darker colored material in the pour stream or lighter ‘cream colored’ streaks due to moisture.

Thank you once again for your use of our fine line of Brad Penn® products. If you have any additional questions please call our Technical Service department at (814) 368-1200.

As mentioned in the original post, the HDPE bottles that motor oil is packaged in ARE NOT totally impervious to moisture infiltration, even if the bottle is sealed. Exterior moisture from the atmosphere like high humidity in damp basements or climates where humidity is high a large number of days each year, the moisture can enter between the molecules of the plastic bottle and also through the non-hermetically sealed cap and liner. The longer the exposure to such conditions (i.e. the longer the oil is stored under these conditions) the more likely the moisture contamination will infiltrate the sealed bottle. The reason it was mentioned that the bottles shouldn’t be stored in direct contact with concrete but should ideally be stored off the floor on pallets, shelves, etc. is the fact that unless properly and completely sealed, concrete will allow moisture from the dirt base underneath to penetrate and come into direct contact with the porous plastic bottle……hence the concern. As an example, have you ever tried to store a cardboard box directly on an unsealed concrete floor for any length of time……what happens? Moisture from the concrete floor causes deterioration of the cardboard lattice structure, and sometimes even mold and mildew form on the cardboard.

That was the reference to the concrete issue in the earlier post. Thanks for allowing the clarification.

I’m not really sure where their concern over moisture permeability in HDPE comes from, but HDPE is used to make bottles for fruit juice, milk, water, kitchen cleansing products and even furniture (It has been used in recent years for garden furniture as it resists the weather and can be cleaned very easily). Even in the form of thin film, HDPE is considered to have very low moisture or even gas permeability, which is one of the reasons it is used as a barrier film in the construction of high moisture prone areas, such as behind the plasterboard in bathroom walls to keep moisture from the shower getting into the insulation and defeating its R value.

Probably even more telling is the fact that a quick look around the shop finds just about everything comes in HDPE containers, including all Castrol, Mobil 1 and Joe Gibbs oils, and most notably many brands of brake fluids, which are highly hydroscopic, meaning they attract and absorb moisture quickly, as opposed to oil which is hydrophobic and does not want to absorb water. I am unaware of any concerns about moisture absorption through the HDPE being expressed by the manufacturers of these products as long as the package’s original seal is intact, but have noted that some express concerns about high moisture environments deteriorating the adhered labels on the HDPE containers, or the secondary packaging. In fact, both the MSDS for both Castrol and Mobil1 full synthetics say nothing about moisture in their sections on product storage, and they are in HDPE.

Perhaps Brad Penn has particular issue related to their semi-synthetics formula or the type of HDPE packaging they use. But in any case, in all the years I’ve been at this, I have never encountered motor oil that absorbed water, even back when most oils came in spiral wound cardboard containers with metal end caps (yes, I'm that old....).

Edited by JFP in PA
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think moisture is an issue as in the normal use of a car the oil will pick up moisture anyway ( see your 997 user guide) it will disappear after a highway trip

Here in Europe Porsche is advising mobil1 5W50, the higher hot viscosity seems important, BMW is advising Castrol Edge 10W60 for all its M models, so an even higher hot viscosity than Porsche

I have heard about the scorched cylinders on the M97.01 and wonder if these are not linked with the rupture of the oil film by using too thin oils like 0W40 or 5W40

The move to 5W50 in Europe seems recent (a couple of years) and I wonder if this is not an easy remedy to all these M96 and M97 engine failures ( excluding the IMS related issues of course)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Here in Europe Porsche is advising mobil1 5W50, the higher hot viscosity seems important, BMW is advising Castrol Edge 10W60 for all its M models, so an even higher hot viscosity than Porsche

I have heard about the scorched cylinders on the M97.01 and wonder if these are not linked with the rupture of the oil film by using too thin oils like 0W40 or 5W40

Mobil 5W50 is a great oil.

As for "scortched cylinders" as related to Mobil 0W40, Patrick Long and Jorg Bermeister both run M1 0W40 in their F.L. GT3 RSR. I hear their cylinders are doing fine. Even saw them run around Road America for +4 hours at +170 MPH back in August for the ALMS.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

And many other cars run on 0W30 without issues, The M97.01 engine is somewhat fragile, would Porsche have tried to fix the cylinder scorching with change of oil spec

You need to consider OEM oil “recommendations” with a grain of salt; quite often, the oil weights and types they select are a lot more self-serving to the OEM than designed to protect the new owner’s investment.

The oil weight you see being specified is often based more on its impact on the OEM’s CAFÉ ratings; this is why you see 0W-20 oils becoming more commonplace in street cars like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. Not that long ago, 10W-X weight oils were standard fare for use in arctic and near artic conditions, but suddenly now you need 0W-X oils for use in Miami, Houston, and LA. Similarly, the move away from ZDDP additives “to protect the catalytic converters” is more related to the fact that the EPA had the OEM’s on the hook to warranty the cats for 8 years or 80,000 miles.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've driven 7K since I bought my 2007 C4S 1.5 years ago and have decided to change my oil/filter prior to the Porsche recommended 15K because of what I've read on this forum. I've read thru the DIY oil change forums but thinking about going thru a dealer since I no experience doing it myself. Few questions:

1) What is the approximate price I would expect to pay a non-dealer for an oil change?

Use the Mobil 1 you have so long as you have 9 qts which is what it will take with a filter change. If your mechanic won't do it, find another mechanic.

2) I have a case of Mobil 0W-40 but a local guy said he uses his own oil. If he also uses 0W-40 from a different manufacturer or even 5W-40, is it possible to mix; like if I have to add oil can I use the Mobil oil?

Don't mix oils. Stick with the Mobil 1 or other Porsche approved oil. Top up with same oil between changes.

3) Do I need to change my oil filter and if so is there a special brand I should consider?

Lot's of options but I always use OEM.

Always change the filter with the oil. I always use an OEM filter despite the fact that lot's of manufactures make filters for Porsches.

4) Should I have them install a magnetic drain plug and if so how difficult is this (i.e. should I need to pay extra)?

If you want a magnetic drain plug buy one , along with the proper seal ring, and ask your mechanic to install. If he/she refuses find another mechanic. Should be a no additional effort /no additional cost transaction. LN engineering sells one for the 997. Not cheap but high quality.

5) Does anyone know any reputable non-dealers near Iowa City for an oil change? What would be the best way to find this out? PCA?

Can't help you on this one.

Any other questions I should ask the oil change guy that I can't think of?

Make sure your mechanic doesn't over tighten the oil drain plug. Snug is sufficient. Overtightening will strip the drain hole threads.

Do not over fill. Partial fill oil filter receptical when installing reduces starting up oil starvation. Should't need more than 8 1/2 quarts total including the oil used to partial fill the oil filter.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all these useful responses.

Well the mechanic I would use does a lot of BMWs and they do Porsches occasionally. I'm not aware of any indy Porsche mechanics nearby and the dealer is 1 hour away (and not very good). The local guy said they use Northwind 5W-40 oil but that mixing with my Mobil 0W-40 to top off occasionally is not a problem. My case of Mobil 0W-40 is about 1 year old and has been sitting in cardboard box but the bottom hasn't been eaten through with moisture despite sitting in my garage all year.

Why are there so many different opinions on oils types, brands, etc.? Seems hard to get a consensus. This suggests to me that there is no perfect oil.

I've been reading a lot about oils on various forums and the possibility of IMS failure but sounds like they are more common with the M96 than the M97 engine? Nevertheless it seems like the LN engineering magnetic drain plug is cheap, easy insurance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Similar Content

    • By Porsche0911
      Had a small accident topping up my oil. I think I put about 1/2 liter to much oil in my car. Is this a problem? More so I do want to remove it and I was hoping to use an oil evacuation pump and put the suction line down the oil filter tube. Has anyone here done this? I know I cant go down the oil filler tube. I can but don't want to drain it through the drain plug unless absolutely my only choice.
    • By Supra-p!g
      Just got a 98 Boxster for my Birthday. Now I have two Porsches! First question is: can I drive it for a few more days on the old oil until I get it changed this weekend. The car has 57K miles. Last owner changed oil 1.5K miles ago. So he drove the car very little over the last year since the last oil change, but it's been a year. It's fairly dry here in Colorado, and the car has always been garaged. Should I change immediately, or can drive it a few hundred miles until I get the oil changed this weekend? IMS failure a huge issue on these 98's? The oil looks clear and like new when I check on the dipstick.
       
      The engine sounds excellent. I can hear the chain rattle momentarily when I start it cold. Also, plan to use Driven DT40 oil that I have an extra case of (bought it for my Cayenne, but have enough to do the Boxster) and it's 5W40.
       
      Thanks! I'm really enjoying the car -- it's not a 420 HP MKIV that used to have, but it's almost as fun.
      Mike
    • By Carerra
      I don't mean to poke a bear here.  It is just that I see many differing values quoted around the site for oil change intervals.  
       
      I believe the Porsche owners manual says changes should happen at 20,000 miles.  In posts, here and other sites, I have seen recommendations from 2,000 to 15,000.  
       
      I have had the occasion to break bread with people who design motor oil additives and motor oils.  They seem like they really know what they are talking about.  I expect that Porsche know what they are talking about as well.  I am familiar with Porsche's leather tanning and finishing standards and they are extremely high,  I expect they care more about their oil.
       
      I am not trying to be inflammatory, I just really want to know.  Why (specifically) do people believe that the oil needs to be changed so frequently?  
       
      I am not talking about running the car on the race track.  That is obvious.  However, the 911 is know as the best daily driver supercar for a reason. Lots of us drive them like cars.  For those instances, what is the proper change interval?  I am really interested in the experiences that led you to that recommendation.  Also, does it vary by the specific engine.  (Mine is the MA1.01)
    • By Carerra
      Got a new to me 2010 997.2 Carerra S.  This is my first Porsche having owned a series of BMWs. 
       
      I watched a number of DIYs on the oil change and it seemed to go off without a hitch. 
       
      I warmed up the engine prior and let it drain for about 3 hours while I attended to other things. I changed the filter and put in 10qts of oil. 
       
      Now the oil level light says it is over full. I guess that is ok as it was eating about a quart a month which seems normal to a BMW owner.  I figured it would drop over a few weeks but it hasn't. 
       
      Now about once every day or three since the oil change it asks me to measure the oil level.  Should I be concerned? It seems weird that the proper amount of oil would over top the gauge.  
    • By engineerboy100
      For cars that have an oil dipstick, I have been thinking about designing an oil changer pump that will be like nothing else on the planet and will have the following features:

      1.      Of course you will not have to jack up the car as the oil will be extracted through dipstick hole.

      2.      Unlike other extractors on the market , this unit will not require

      a.      An air compressor to operate

      b.      Manual pumping to create suction

      c.      The user to dump the oil, it is pumped directly into the recycle container

      3.      This unit is very small and easy to handle

      4.      Made in USA of machined aluminum NOT plastic

      5.      Can extract warm oil in 2-5 minutes depending on vehicle capacity

      6.      Does not require a battery, operates on your car’s 12 volt battery

      7.      Costs less than some people pay for an oil change

      8.      Anyone can easily use it from teens to non-mechanical persons to the elderly

      9.      Allows you to change your oil without jacking up your car in as little as 5 minutes.

      10.   Looks Awesome I billet aluminum or anodized blue

      Would you be interested in such a device? If enough people are interested I will engineer one like nothing currently in existence.  Let me know.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.