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xmac

Dumb question on SIR Tools P253 camshaft timing tool

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Hi All, I pulled my RMS  and installed the new seal. My question is I can't seem to get a good eye on my pocket ruler to see if it's 13mm all the way around. Seems it might 12 on one side 13 on another …..just not uniform all the way around during the press in.. I can continue to fuss with it....get my 3''pvc pipe tool on it and just really try and meticulously watch the depth...now is it ok to just manipulate the tool so I eventually get it even and ARRIVE at 13mm all the way around OR does it need to be pressed in on the same plane millimeter by millimeter the whole way down?(so one side is never higher than the other) Hope my question is clear. 

I also went ahead and drove my new IMS in and the hardest part was installing the spiroloc. How can I be certain the spiroloc is fully seated and installed correctly. I can get a small dental pick on it and give a tug to insure it's locked in. Just being a little paranoid. Any feedback appreciated.V

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17 hours ago, vza said:

Hi All, I pulled my RMS  and installed the new seal. My question is I can't seem to get a good eye on my pocket ruler to see if it's 13mm all the way around. Seems it might 12 on one side 13 on another …..just not uniform all the way around during the press in.. I can continue to fuss with it....get my 3''pvc pipe tool on it and just really try and meticulously watch the depth...now is it ok to just manipulate the tool so I eventually get it even and ARRIVE at 13mm all the way around OR does it need to be pressed in on the same plane millimeter by millimeter the whole way down?(so one side is never higher than the other) Hope my question is clear. 

I also went ahead and drove my new IMS in and the hardest part was installing the spiroloc. How can I be certain the spiroloc is fully seated and installed correctly. I can get a small dental pick on it and give a tug to insure it's locked in. Just being a little paranoid. Any feedback appreciated.V

 

The newer design PTFE RMS seal needs to be correctly inserted to 13MM around its entire circumference.

 

A small pick should also tell you if the spiroloc clip is in correctly.

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Thanks, I understand that it has to be 13mm BUT it's getting there that I'm concerned with...if its pressed in unevenly like 10mm on one side 13mm on another and 11mm across from that.....etc. If I finally get it all at 13mm am I good... or is the RMS twisting out of shape and not good anymore by not having the entire seal pressed in evenly all the way around till I reach 13mm. BTW how do I know I have a new PTFE design I just had EBS Racing look it up and send the part I believe it was manufactured by Corteco. Thanks V

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19 hours ago, vza said:

Thanks, I understand that it has to be 13mm BUT it's getting there that I'm concerned with...if its pressed in unevenly like 10mm on one side 13mm on another and 11mm across from that.....etc. If I finally get it all at 13mm am I good... or is the RMS twisting out of shape and not good anymore by not having the entire seal pressed in evenly all the way around till I reach 13mm. BTW how do I know I have a new PTFE design I just had EBS Racing look it up and send the part I believe it was manufactured by Corteco. Thanks V

 

The PTFE seal comes with a blue/green protective insert in it that is remove by the factory tool during installation: 

rmsbig.jpg  13825420883_72b9f62d15_c.jpg

 

This seal MUST be inserted evenly and to the correct depth or it will leak and may even pop out. The factory tool presses it in evenly across the circumference and stops it at the correct install depth.. 

IMG_7647.jpg  PorschePTFERMSSpeicalTool_tool_9699_135_

 

If you feel you may have distorted it during the install, I would recommend canning it and starting over with a new one.  They are not expensive, but doing this over again because it leaked is not a good use of your time.

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I don't think I distorted it and as far as evenly..... was a little off 1 or 2 mm here and there and it arrived what appears to be 13mm....I'm not using the $700.00 tool....the car was 2800.00. Any ideas.....should I just get another and give a try??

As far as the IMS....I got the bearing in, spiroloc in good. I got the cover on and 'snap' the cover bolt broke, I brought the new torque wrench back and  I guess I'll get a better one??, I felt I didn't even exert near enough to snap it and the torque wrench never clicked. Any experience with these bolts snapping. I did manage to work the other half of the bolt out of the case w no damage to anything. Ugh Instructions really make it look easier....lesson in patience....thanks to JFP for all your responses!!

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So what kind go damage could I have done by snapping a bolt head and from the looks of it stretching the other 2 bolts on the IMS cover install. I never felt a click from my torque wrench. Somewhat worried here....waiting for new bolts to arrive! 

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14 minutes ago, vza said:

So what kind go damage could I have done by snapping a bolt head and from the looks of it stretching the other 2 bolts on the IMS cover install. I never felt a click from my torque wrench. Somewhat worried here....waiting for new bolts to arrive! 

 

The bolts pass through the IMS flange cover and into rather soft alloy threads, so you may want to take a close look at those.

 

I do need to add that something sounds wrong here; normally the flange cover simply drops into place with only slight hand pressure, and then the three cover bolts (coated with sealant) spin in with just two fingers.  So I have to ask: Are you sure your IMS shaft is still centered in the opening?  And what torque are you trying to apply to these fasteners?

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The cover did drop in and bolts did go in w two fingers...I believe I didn't feel or hear a click w my torque wrench at such a low setting 7.5 ft lbs.and bolts were over torqued. IMS centered nicely. I put the old bolts in and they snugged  up waiting for news ones to install and bought a new torque wrench. Thanks v

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8 hours ago, vza said:

The cover did drop in and bolts did go in w two fingers...I believe I didn't feel or hear a click w my torque wrench at such a low setting 7.5 ft lbs.and bolts were over torqued.IMS centered nicely. I put the old bolts in and they snugged  up waiting for news ones to install and bought a new torque wrench. Thanks v

 

You should be using an inch pound torque wrench for values this low, ft. lb. wrenches tend to be inaccurate at such low values. 

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Yeah...thought of that but then read it would be inaccurate in the conversion. So 90 in lbs. Simple conversion correct? V

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1 hour ago, vza said:

Yeah...thought of that but then read it would be inaccurate in the conversion. So 90 in lbs. Simple conversion correct? V

 

7.5 ft. lbs. = 90 inch pounds.  All torque measuring equipment tends to be more inaccurate at or near its upper or lower measuring limits, so for anything less than 15 ft. lbs. I would suggest going to an inch pound tool.

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OK...Got my new IMS cover bolts.... torqued them in 90 inch lbs. with my inch Lbs torque Wrench(thanks JFP). Got a replacement cam timing tool from SIR tools which I still can't get to go on. Seems like it drops in but can't bolt it to the case on either bank. All though the cam locking tool from LN IMS toolset drops in(exhaust Cam only) and bolts right up. This is odd to me that one would fit and not the other. When I compared both tools the raised groove on the LN tool seemed narrower than the groove on the SIR tool leading me to believe it's too wide and will not fit into the cam groove.... I marked 3 of the 4 cams w nail polish (4th had the lock tool in place) and after turning the engine 720 degrees everything was lined up and turned another 720 bank 2 intake wasn't aligned but the exhaust on the same bank was good.Bank 1 was good. Now what can that mean....I lost the timing between the intake and exhaust.??? I will check the nail polish with my finger....was thinking I my have painted on some oil and the polish my have NOT adhered to the metal. I still have to take Bank2 cam cover off to replace the solenoid so I'll recheck the timing after thats done. I'm thinking when its all buttoned up I may flatbed it to an indie Porsche place and have them check the timing if I'm not sure about it. Any thoughts... and can the timing be done by an indie guy by adjusting the cams by taking the scavenge oil cover off?? Thanks V

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One step at a time...Anyone have any ideas as to why I CAN fit my cam lock tool from LN engineering(the one that just locks the exhaust cam) into the cam and bolt it down(both banks at TDC respectively) and my P253 cam timing tool from SIR CAN NOT be slotted in and bolted down on either bank at TDC? If the slot is lining up with one why isn't it lining up with the other. This is 2nd tool SIR sent me. 

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Hi all, at this point my heads spinning. Working on 99 boxster base. After 2 P253 tools and a 9216 tool(after market knockoff) that I wasn't able to drop in to check my timing I decided to discard the tools and eyeball the exhaust cams. The cam lock tool(half size one) however did go in and the exhaust cams did line up w the case seams. I did however notice that bank 1 intake cam was not at 3 o'clock at TDC compression and not at 9 o'clock TDC exhaust, they are 2 and 8 o'clock respectively. Well I ignored this fact for a moment thinking how can both banks be out. I went ahead locked bank 2 w cam lock tool and removed the cam cover(needed to replace solenoid). With further investigation I found 1 marked link on the cam chain(the other isn't visible w engine in car)and noticed the dimple it's supposed to be lined up with is off by 1 tooth. I'm now assuming I couldn't get these tools to drop in cause my cams are off. Am I correct in assuming that the cams on BOTH banks are out and need to be removed and timed. As far as I know I drove the car 2 hrs after the purchase in this condition. Unless the timing was lost after my IMS replacement. How is it possible the cams are off relative to each other and to the crank. Please tell me I'm wrong. help!!! vin

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Well ..feel a little more confident. Removed my cams today and found timing was off between them as I suspected.(1 tooth on the exhaust)The chain was not set up correctly with the dimples as well. Some pics of cams and badly worn ramps. Some questions.

How does the pic of the lifter look....looks good to me? 

Torque specs for: solenoid to actuator ?

                                Actuator to Cam Housing ?

                                Cam Cover 9.5

                                Bearing Saddles 7.5

                                Sprocket 10 + 10% so 11.5 (I read it didn't do the math)

Is it necessary to use loctite on all the bolts? They seem to have a green coating on them. If so green wicking?

I imagine I should do the other bank considering the shape of rails on bank 2(also intake notch was not at 3 o'clock) 

I tested the solenoid with 12v the pin was pushed out only about a 16th of an inch then it started smoking??? Had oil in it as well.

                          

                                

Solenoid.jpg

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