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Jay.

Tiptronic Emergency Run Warning

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Hi All,

I've had a look on the forum and seen some good topics regarding this warning, but I'm hoping to post a fresh topic to share my experiences and hopefully gain some insight to my problem.

Warning: Long post.

Short version: Car goes into Tiptronic Emergenc Run Warning when accelerating hard. Had the car 'fixed' by a Specialist but seems to have returned.

Background

Stock Porsche 996t 2004, car has 70k miles, and has given me zero problems in my 12 months ownership. 

Initial Symptoms

I put my foot down in 2nd and the car suddenly felt weird - it felt like the clutch slipped and the revs were all over the place.. I took my foot off the gas pedal and let the car slow down. I noticed that the " Tiptronic Emergency Run" warning was showing on my center console and the lights indicating "D" and "4"th gear were flashing. 

I turned the car off, waited 30 seconds and turned it back on. No warnings, car drove normally and I started heading back home. I put my foot down once again and the symptoms occurred again - pulling away in 2nd and everything goes weird, before it heads into limp mode and I have to restart the car.

I carefully get the car home and notice there's quite a few oil drops on the road (it had started to rain, and this made the spots really easy to see). I parked the car up and got it picked up by a Porsche specialist that was nearby. 

'The Fix'

The specialist found that an oil pipe had corroded which was causing a leak. He suggested that the Warning was likely because there was low ATF levels - which seems to be a common cause according to searches on here.

Anyway, 10 labour hours later and the pipe has been replaced, ATF filled up and leak fixed.

The Issue.. again.

I got the car fully serviced and took it away... 100 miles later and I'm pulling away from the lights where the symptoms kick in again. Restart, and it's fine - although driving it carefully I've noticed a few things: the car seems to struggle a bit when pulling away up hills, and a bit hesitant when changing gears. I've parked the car up as it's been raining heavily here and don't have somewhere to check anything out.

Finally!

 

Reading on this forum suggests it could be a TCU fault, which makes sense as it seems to fix itself when restarting the car. The valve body also seems to be a common theme, but I don't know what I can do to test that? Any other things I should be checking? 

 

I have a Ramp at home, so I can do most of the spanner work, as long as it's not too complicated. I have a handheld reader which can read codes, clear codes and do data streaming. 

 

Fault Codes

 

I've finally got my code reader (Carecar AET-1) and the following have shown up:

80-20161202_193700_55fa366dc548a2ae9ce75

Warning from ECU error codes menu
P0715 - Tiptronic (supply voltage, speed sensors)

80-20161202_193425_b43fbd0f9ed2967e67b19

Transmission warning codes

14 - Speed comparison between n2 and n3 comparison implausible

50 - Impermissible transmission ratio


Can I confirm that the transmission in my car (04) is the MBenz 722.6? Here's a good forum answering lots of questions if so:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1463460-mercedes-benz-722-6-transmission-faq.html#/topics/1463460?_k=025ifa

 

 

Edited by Jay.
Typo

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On the assumption that it's a ZF transmission, there will be a plate on the housing giving part number etc. It would probably be wiser to confirm that number and then cross reference from that.

 

You mention your car as being a 996t (2005). Wasn't 2005 the year in which the 997 was introduced?

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1 hour ago, wizard said:

On the assumption that it's a ZF transmission, there will be a plate on the housing giving part number etc. It would probably be wiser to confirm that number and then cross reference from that.

 

You mention your car as being a 996t (2005). Wasn't 2005 the year in which the 997 was introduced?

Apologies I don't know why I typed that... I meant 2004 (late). 

 

I was under the impression that the ZF was the early year cars? And that in 2002 they equipped them with the 722.6? To be honest I haven't checked physically. 

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I've read conflicting information, hence the suggestion to see if there's a ZF plate on the transmission itself. Crawling underneath from the rear of the car, it's normally fairly easy to find. 

 

If it is a ZF, then there's a very precise procedure to be followed when filling. The ZF is also very particular as to the ATF used.

 

Checking what fluid was put in and its level would be my first approach. 

 

 

 

 

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All facelift 996s and all 996 Turbos had a variant of the MB 722.6 transmission.  (They also made MY2005 996s of some models, by the way).

 

The DME code P0715 says is that the Tiptronic is in limp mode.  Ideally you should connect it to a Porsche specific tester which will read out the Tiptronic Control Unit fault codes, to see if there are others, and start from there.  If you are anywhere near me (Maidenhead, Berkshire) I would be happy to plug my tester in for you.

However, I have a diagnostic sheet covering P0715, and I would be happy to pass it on to you if you PM me your email address.

Edited by Richard Hamilton
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Hi Jay,
I had the exact same problem with my 2007 Turbo. I had the same codes read out at my Porsche dealer on PIWIS.
To fix the problem, I got the dealership to pull out the control unit which has the plastic valve body plate attached to it. I sent the control unit to my Mercedes Benz mechanic, he pulled off the valve body plate and replaced it with a new one. I gave it back to Porsche, they refitted and replaced the atf with new.
No more problems, especially pulling away in second gear.
Hope this helps

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From those posting, I'm obviously the least qualified to comment given that I've no experience whatsoever with that particular car. 

 

My reasoning is that before starting to delve into the transmission itself, ruling out that it's not an incorrect fluid level is the simplest task. Garages are not infallible!

 

If the transmission is not properly filled and a rapid acceleration is applied, then I believe that the 'sloshing effect' could be sensed as insufficient fluid and the warning triggered. When driven on the level or when parked, it wouldn't.

 

I may be wrong. Anyway, I hope that the fix is not too painful as a car like yours deserves to be driven.

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On 12/4/2016 at 4:06 PM, Richard Hamilton said:

All facelift 996s and all 996 Turbos had a variant of the MB 722.6 transmission.  (They also made MY2005 996s of some models, by the way).

 

The DME code P0715 says is that the Tiptronic is in limp mode.  Ideally you should connect it to a Porsche specific tester which will read out the Tiptronic Control Unit fault codes, to see if there are others, and start from there.  If you are anywhere near me (Maidenhead, Berkshire) I would be happy to plug my tester in for you.

However, I have a diagnostic sheet covering P0715, and I would be happy to pass it on to you if you PM me your email address.

 

Thank you - I've read conflicting things too Wizard, so it's nice to have it confirmed.

 

I'm around 2 hours away from Maidenhead, so I could pop up if you think that would be a good idea. My current reader has dedicated Porsche module - it allows me to play with all the settings within the car (lights, ABS, windows etc), I assumed this would also show me all the codes too?

 

I've PMed you my email address, many thanks.

 

On 12/5/2016 at 6:06 AM, 246gtsa said:

Hi Jay,
I had the exact same problem with my 2007 Turbo. I had the same codes read out at my Porsche dealer on PIWIS.
To fix the problem, I got the dealership to pull out the control unit which has the plastic valve body plate attached to it. I sent the control unit to my Mercedes Benz mechanic, he pulled off the valve body plate and replaced it with a new one. I gave it back to Porsche, they refitted and replaced the atf with new.
No more problems, especially pulling away in second gear.
Hope this helps

 

Thank you so much for signing up for this - that does help me a lot! Was there any visible damage or was it a 'gamble'? I've heard that it can be a few different things on the TCU (Tip Control Unit) so I'm tempted just to buy a new one and replace the whole lot of it..

 

12 hours ago, wizard said:

From those posting, I'm obviously the least qualified to comment given that I've no experience whatsoever with that particular car. 

 

My reasoning is that before starting to delve into the transmission itself, ruling out that it's not an incorrect fluid level is the simplest task. Garages are not infallible!

 

If the transmission is not properly filled and a rapid acceleration is applied, then I believe that the 'sloshing effect' could be sensed as insufficient fluid and the warning triggered. When driven on the level or when parked, it wouldn't.

 

I may be wrong. Anyway, I hope that the fix is not too painful as a car like yours deserves to be driven.

 

Wizard, you are certainly right - I think 99% of the time the issue is just low ATF which shows after braking and then quickly accelerating (Fluid sloshes forward causing low ATF reading) etc. I think I'll start by trying to push some more fluid in and seeing how much it takes - I'm lead to believe that if it's already full then it'll simply leak out of the control valve when I push some in. 

 

 

Thank you all for the responses!

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49 minutes ago, Jay. said:

 

I'm around 2 hours away from Maidenhead, so I could pop up if you think that would be a good idea. My current reader has dedicated Porsche module - it allows me to play with all the settings within the car (lights, ABS, windows etc), I assumed this would also show me all the codes too?

 

I've PMed you my email address, many thanks.

 

I didn't receive a PM, but I hope mine gets through to you.

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For the transmission on my car (ZF), there's a very precise procedure for ensuring the ATF is at the correct level. 

 

Unfortunately, it's not simply a case of pumping in the transmission-specific fluid. Topping up would require the fluid to be at the correct temperature and, naturally, the car needs to be absolutely level.

 

I would imagine that there's a specific procedure for the Mercedes transmission.

 

 

Edited by wizard

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10 hours ago, wizard said:

For the transmission on my car (ZF), there's a very precise procedure for ensuring the ATF is at the correct level. 

 

Unfortunately, it's not simply a case of pumping in the transmission-specific fluid. Topping up would require the fluid to be at the correct temperature and, naturally, the car needs to be absolutely level.

 

I would imagine that there's a specific procedure for the Mercedes transmission.

 

 

It is similar for the MB gearbox:

 

  • The transmission must not be in the reduced driving program.
  • The ATF temperature must be between 30 °C and 40 °C. An ATF inspection at an insufficient ATF temperature causes over-filling and an inspection at an excessive ATF temperature causes insufficient filling.
  • Selector lever in position "P" and engine idling.
  • The air-conditioning system and the heater must be switched off.
  • The vehicle must stand horizontally.

 

1. Place oil collection pan under the transmission.

2. Connect the Porsche System Tester 2 and call up the ATF temperature.
The ATF temperature must not be higher than 40 °C at the start of the test.

3. Move selector lever to position "P" and allow engine to idle.

4. Unscrew control screw -B- [Level Plug]. If ATF escapes from the control bore and if the ATF temperature is 30 °C to 40 °C, the ATF level is Ok. If there is enough ATF fluid in the transmission, then continue with step 10.
The control screw must be closed no later than when an ATF temperature of 45 °C is reached.

5. If no ATF escapes from the control bore even though approx. 40 °C has been reached, the ATF must be topped up.
To undo and tighten the cap nut for the charging valve, counter with an open-ended wrench.

6. Screw off cap nut for the charging valve. [Fill Plug]

7. Screw special tool 9507/1 onto the charging valve and top up ATF via the charging valve until excess ATF emerges at the control bore.

8. Replace sealing ring for cap nut.

9. Screw on cap nut for charging valve.
Tightening torque: 40 Nm (30 ftlb.)

10. Screw in ATF control screw with a new sealing ring.
Tightening torque: 22 Nm (16 ftlb.)

 

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Richard, we're both clearly looking to help out. I cut my teeth on a TR7 (wow, that dates me (:-) 

 

However, my one and only Porsche has never been in a garage and, after fifteen years, still runs much as it did when I first took delivery.

 

Would you agree that if one is intent on keeping their Porsche, then a Durametric (at least) is an investment which more than covers its outlay?

 

That would be my next piece of advice, Jay, for what it's worth. I've found it to be invaluable.

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I had a TR6 once - about my 10th car, which dates me even more! 

 

Yes, I absolutely agree that these days, dedicated diagnostic software is essential for any DIY-er.   Durametric is a great bit of kit, and I can never understand why someone will pay tens of thousands of dollars/pounds/euros on a Porsche, and then scrimp by buying a cheap diagnostic tool. Having said that, I believe Jay's scanner is Porsche specific.

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So, a bit of a delayed update due to work, but here it goes.

 

I gave the car a good drive when I got back, and annoyingly (?) it seems to be running great. There were no warnings and no slippage at all. 

I jacked it up anyway to have a look and that's where I found it was leaking ATF, pretty badly.
 
V3EpCBN.jpg
(The gearbox is directly above my head as I take this photo, with the underside of the car covered in ATF)

 

At first I thought the leak was coming from the Oil Pan Gasket, but on closer inspection it seems that it might be coming from above that. The pipe that was replaced by the Garage is up there, and I wonder if they replaced the pipe but didn't fix the leak (at the expense of ~£1,300). 

 

SvN2nWi.jpg
(You can see the drop forming on the ATF Fill Nipple, and some other bits.)

 

I'm in a dilemma now: I've topped up the ATF (2 litres) and it appears to be driving great... however I am left with a pretty big leak which is covering the bottom of my car every time I take it for a good drive.

 

I can't seem to get vision to where I think the leak is originating from, and I'm half tempted to just replace the Oil Pan Gasket just in case that is the main source, but I do think that's probably a waste of time as directly above the transmission appears to be the source. 

 

It seems my first port of call is to fix the leak, and then consider whether it is indeed electronics as originally thought, or if it was just the low ATF that caused the Emergency Run to pop on.

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I seem to remember that someone posted that there is a seal on an actuator arm right above this, and it is known to go bad.  Externally replaceable at not much cost.  Might look into that.

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4 hours ago, DBJoe996 said:

I seem to remember that someone posted that there is a seal on an actuator arm right above this, and it is known to go bad.  Externally replaceable at not much cost.  Might look into that.

 

I haven't heard of that, I'll look into that for sure - do you happen to remember who it was?...

 

Are there any other hot spots for ATF leaks? I've read about the transfer case but I'm praying it won't be that 

 

I took it to another Porsche specialist but after an hour or so he wasn't able to locate the source either which is a little disheartening. I'll have another crack at it tomorrow and remove some stuff to get a better look. 

 

 

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I don't know how accessible this is, but the following may be worth looking at :-

 

'The MB units (my experience is limited to e55 & 430, sl, clk55) have a documented issue with leaks from a faulty o ring in the plug where the Transmission Control Unit wiring harness connects to the vehicles wiring. I haven't taken apart the specific unit on the 996, but I can tell you the fix should be extremely simple. Get your hands on a shop manual for this particular vehicle model year, and locate the harness/plug. If it's leaking from the plug you should be able to fix for about 15-25 dollars all by yourself, I've done it a couple of times and it's really not a big deal.'

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I've got a leak which has been ongoing for a couple of years.  Since I don't have a lift I have only been unable to stick my head under the unit trying to find this elusive plug.  Part diagram doesn't really help.

 

So the question is, can anyone tell me where exactly this plug is?  Preferably with a picture :-)

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The following relates to the Mercedes Benz 722.6 transmission, but it may point you to the rough area to look. 

 

What Are The Common Fluid Leaks Of The 722.6 Transmission?

The two most common fluid leaks from this transmission are the 13-pin electric connector/spacer (pilot Bushing) and the shifter mechanism bellow. Between the two, 99% of the leaks are from the 13-pin connector.

The 13-pin connector can leak either internally or externally. In some cases, the leaked fluid can even wick up to the Electronic Transmission Control module (ETC) through all the small openings in the wire bundle via capillary action. The purpose of the plug is to connect the ETC to the inside of the transmission (solenoids, sensors, etc). At the center of the plug, there is a 7-mm screw that screws into the conductor plate which is inside the transmission. It has a very low torque value (3 Nm) so do not strip the threads or you will need a new conductor plate

169669d1206541691-transmission-fluid-lea


Leak from the connector, which is on the top-left of the picture


This plug has been updated several times so make sure you get the latest part. The replacement is pretty simple and here is instruction on how to replace the connector from “Franasiaâ€.

Here are a few additional items that you may to observe when replacing the plug connector.

Make sure the transmission fluid is below 50 deg C and examine the new connector to see the collar engagement and the 7-mm screw at the center.

When installing the new connector, put a tiny bit of ATF on the O rings.

  
 

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The connector is quite high up on the back of the gearbox, you'll need to remove the plastic cover below the centre of the car as well to get better vision, and a mirror will give you a much easier time. Unfortunately I don't have a pic to help you, but it was quite easy to locate with the trim off and an extendable  mirror. I checked the plug and it appears dry. 

 

After removing some brackets and moving coolant pipes etc, I've managed to track down the source of the leak as the original ATF return pipe that the Specialist had changed on my original issue - it appears the leak is coming from where the pipe goes onto the joint, possibly not tight enough or a bad seal. The pipe goes from the top of the transmission to the oil cooler and very tricky to get to.

 

VsdXaVN.jpg

(Hopefully that's kinda clear)

 

I'll contact the garage that did the original work and I'm hoping they'll fix the leak free of charge. I'll also take it to my local specialist and get a quote as they thought the original pipe change should not have taken more than 3 hours labour, and I was charged 10.

 

Will keep the thread updated!

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@Jay reading through the thread in the UK forum, your leaky pipes will be on the driver side and the plug on the passenger side?

 

I will have to get an extended mirror and better access to the underside of the car.  Have booked with a Merc transmission specialist on 6 Jan, as OPC and indy can't help.

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