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Happy New Year to everyone, hope that you're all having an enjoyable holiday season!

I visited my local dealer yesterday to check out a C4S coupe that I've had my eye on. The car is black over sand beige full leather; after perusing the www.porschedealer.com site (and searching the on-line inventories of 20-30 resellers in the Central US), I believe that this car is the coupe spec car for the 4S launch. It includes PAG launch code 762 on the options list. I have found about 8 identical vehicles in the inventories of the resellers I searched (IL, MN, WI, IN, OH).

So, why a C4S coupe instead of a C2S? (in priority order):

1.) Widebody. OMG, it's WIDE. It looks fantastic; reminds me of the 993 C4S - my favorite 911 ever - yet totally up to date.

2.) It's my driver. Okay, not daily - my E32 735i is my daily-regardless-of-the-weather driver, but I won't shy from anything but the worst weather. I fully intend to purchase a second set of rims and equip them with dedicated snows. The stock N1 tires will probably turn to stone and stop working at 35 degrees F, let alone in ice or snow...

Yeah, when it's sloppy and nasty and salty - the old Bimmer will be the transport of choice; but I'll de darned if I'm going to let the Porsche sit all winter. And I can't see me parking the Porsche at O'Hare, either. Those are my only exceptions, though. There are plenty of 20-30 degree days here in Chicago with dry roads and sun, and I plan to take advantage of them!

3.) I'm not planning to track this car. I love the concept of throttle-induced oversteer, but I'll take the safety of AWD considering my newbie status with rear-engine Porsches.

Comments?

The options list is pretty rich without a lot of (useless, IMHO) expensive trim options:

XLF - Sport Exhaust System

482 - TPMS

342 - Heated Front Seats

267 - Self Dimming Mirrors

P15 - Power Seat Package

670 - Navigation for PCM

680 - BOSE High End Sound Package

640 - Sport Chrono Package Plus

XSC - Porsche Crest in Headrest

M6A - Black Mats - Porsche Lettering

692 - Remote CD Changer (6 Disc)

I'm especially in love with the sport exhaust on the C4S; the staggered pipes look very nice, and the sound is... well, I won't go there on a family website. :thumbup:

I could do without TPMS or Navi; I check the tires on all of our cars bi-weekly in the summer and weekly in the winter. I haven't experienced the Porsche navi system, but I've read that others are more intuitive and have better coverage. These things being said, it's a spec car so I don't have a lot of choice, if any. I can simply let my dealer know that I don't favor these options, and see what he'll do on the price.

I would have traded both TPMS and Navi for Adaptive Sport Seats. Just my opinion.

So, here's the deal. MSRP == $102,080. Edmunds says the invoice price with the listed options is approx. $88, 936 - and I say approximately, because I could not find the XLF Sport Exhaust System on the options list (funny, it's not on the porsche.com configurator, either) - but I know that it's $2400 MSRP and I've calculated the general invoice/ MSRP spread to be 12.5% for base cars and 15% for options...

Comments?

BTW, Edmunds states that the "True Market Value:What Others Are Paying" is equal to the MSRP. Maybe in a perfect California spring, yes - but not in a Chicago winter. In fact, Motorwerks actually 'migrated' their 911 and Boxster inventory to the back of the lot for winter. The Cayennes are still up front, of course, with the Benzes... <g>

This all being said - my wife said to offer them $94k. I think they'll probably balk at that - but I don't think that she's too far off...

Comments?

Finally - the sand beige leather. Guys, am I being too sensitive, or is this color waaay yellow? I'm trying to be stealthy here - note, I didn't order a Speed Yellow car (although I'm tempted!). In my world, a slate grey exterior with a stone grey interior would be closest to asphalt in color - and therefore my primary choice. But I don't have that option unless I order, and US deliveries are into May; euro deliveries will take that out until late June / early July in my driveway. I've waited 47 years, I'm not waiting any longer if I don't have to...

A positive regarding the light interior - and I noticed this immediately when I got into the cars - it's much more visible in terms of the detailing, especially with full leather. In the black and even dark grey interiors, the footwells and bottoms of the doors seem to disappear into darkness.

A black exterior is a pain - my Bimmer is black - but when it's clean and detailed, nothing will beat it. I can live with black. <g>

So, what do I do? The other 4S coupes I've found don't have XLF, and they seem to have a lot more glitzy options - carbon, et al. This car seems to be a beautiful vehicle without too much glitzy stuff. My reservations are slight to non-existant.

My dealer tells me that there aren't many (if any) C4S coupes in the pipeline for spec, and that Porsche has throttled back on C4S coupe production until the launch cars are absorbed. He's been very honest with me so far, I have no reason to doubt him. Comments?

Well, if you're read this far (and if you're anything like me), you might have noticed that I've used this forum to answer my own questions and address my own concerns <g>- but I'd love to hear for all of you in terms of your experiences. Being able to afford a $100k car is a pretty heady experience for me, and I realize that it's not something that I can talk about with too many people - most of them will immediately assume that I'm flaunting it, and nothing can be further from the truth.

I've worked my @ss off for over 20 years for this car. My first ride in my cousin's new '72 911T back in the spring of 1973 marked the day that I decided that I'd own a Porsche... and I want it to be right! (and the 2.4 in the "T" put out what... 140hp? And now I'm looking at 355... :eek: )

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for your replies.

Have a great New Year's, and be careful tonight!

-don

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Happy New Year to everyone, hope that you're all having an enjoyable holiday season!

I visited my local dealer yesterday to check out a C4S coupe that I've had my eye on. The car is black over sand beige full leather; after perusing the www.porschedealer.com site (and searching the on-line inventories of 20-30 resellers in the Central US), I believe that this car is the coupe spec car for the 4S launch. It includes PAG launch code 762 on the options list. I have found about 8 identical vehicles in the inventories of the resellers I searched (IL, MN, WI, IN, OH).

So, why a C4S coupe instead of a C2S? (in priority order):

1.) Widebody. OMG, it's WIDE. It looks fantastic; reminds me of the 993 C4S - my favorite 911 ever - yet totally up to date.

2.) It's my driver. Okay, not daily - my E32 735i is my daily-regardless-of-the-weather driver, but I won't shy from anything but the worst weather. I fully intend to purchase a second set of rims and equip them with dedicated snows. The stock N1 tires will probably turn to stone and stop working at 35 degrees F, let alone in ice or snow...

Yeah, when it's sloppy and nasty and salty - the old Bimmer will be the transport of choice; but I'll de darned if I'm going to let the Porsche sit all winter. And I can't see me parking the Porsche at O'Hare, either. Those are my only exceptions, though. There are plenty of 20-30 degree days here in Chicago with dry roads and sun, and I plan to take advantage of them!

3.) I'm not planning to track this car. I love the concept of throttle-induced oversteer, but I'll take the safety of AWD considering my newbie status with rear-engine Porsches.

Comments?

The options list is pretty rich without a lot of (useless, IMHO) expensive trim options:

XLF - Sport Exhaust System

482 - TPMS

342 - Heated Front Seats

267 - Self Dimming Mirrors

P15 - Power Seat Package

670 - Navigation for PCM

680 - BOSE High End Sound Package

640 - Sport Chrono Package Plus

XSC - Porsche Crest in Headrest

M6A - Black Mats - Porsche Lettering

692 - Remote CD Changer (6 Disc)

I'm especially in love with the sport exhaust on the C4S; the staggered pipes look very nice, and the sound is... well, I won't go there on a family website. :thumbup:

I could do without TPMS or Navi; I check the tires on all of our cars bi-weekly in the summer and weekly in the winter. I haven't experienced the Porsche navi system, but I've read that others are more intuitive and have better coverage. These things being said, it's a spec car so I don't have a lot of choice, if any. I can simply let my dealer know that I don't favor these options, and see what he'll do on the price.

I would have traded both TPMS and Navi for Adaptive Sport Seats. Just my opinion.

So, here's the deal. MSRP == $102,080. Edmunds says the invoice price with the listed options is approx. $88, 936 - and I say approximately, because I could not find the XLF Sport Exhaust System on the options list (funny, it's not on the porsche.com configurator, either) - but I know that it's $2400 MSRP and I've calculated the general invoice/ MSRP spread to be 12.5% for base cars and 15% for options...

Comments?

BTW, Edmunds states that the "True Market Value:What Others Are Paying" is equal to the MSRP. Maybe in a perfect California spring, yes - but not in a Chicago winter. In fact, Motorwerks actually 'migrated' their 911 and Boxster inventory to the back of the lot for winter. The Cayennes are still up front, of course, with the Benzes... <g>

This all being said - my wife said to offer them $94k. I think they'll probably balk at that - but I don't think that she's too far off...

Comments?

...(cut out a bunch of stuff for sake of brevity; wazoo)

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for your replies.

Have a great New Year's, and be careful tonight!

-don

Don, as an owner of a 2000 MY C4, I can only say that it is a wonderful car...with some quirks. Of course, I have the 996 version, but conceptually, same car.

My experience with Edmunds is this...the TMV is not very good for lower volume cars. It's useful for high volume vehicles only. Further, as a guy that knows a bit about vehicle configurators you should know this...they are all wrong to some degree, even the OEM configurators! Use them at your peril...we saw frequent errors even on manufacturer sites.

Also, I have heard that the C4 is not "moving" well right now...but that could just be seasonal variation and a slow launch. Or...it could be that the C4 and C4S pricepoints are just a tad too aggressive for returning C4/C4s owners. It's a major "step-up." Only time will tell. I'd tell you to call a "friend" at Champion Porsche to see how they are "moving" but that sounds just a little bit too salesman like... :D But, if I were looking at a C4 right now, I'd call Champion (in Pompano Beach, FL) and ask them about a C4...they are the largest dealer in the world and could give you a feel for the market (south florida is the #1 luxury car market in the US)

Good luck to you.

:beer:

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Don, as an owner of a 2000 MY C4, I can only say that it is a wonderful car...with some quirks. Of course, I have the 996 version, but conceptually, same car.

My experience with Edmunds is this...the TMV is not very good for lower volume cars. It's useful for high volume vehicles only. Further, as a guy that knows a bit about vehicle configurators you should know this...they are all wrong to some degree, even the OEM configurators! Use them at your peril...we saw frequent errors even on manufacturer sites.

Also, I have heard that the C4 is not "moving" well right now...but that could just be seasonal variation and a slow launch. Or...it could be that the C4 and C4S pricepoints are just a tad too aggressive for returning C4/C4s owners. It's a major "step-up." Only time will tell. I'd tell you to call a "friend" at Champion Porsche to see how they are "moving" but that sounds just a little bit too salesman like... :D But, if I were looking at a C4 right now, I'd call Champion (in Pompano Beach, FL) and ask them about a C4...they are the largest dealer in the world and could give you a feel for the market (south florida is the #1 luxury car market in the US)

Good luck to you.

:beer:

Thanks, Wazoo. Yeah, I'm in the software industry and can tell you all about incomplete feature implementations, incorrectly loaded databases, and the like. Silly me for thinking that the an option missing from the Porsche configurator (XLF) would be in Edmund's! :P

I really appreciate your insights. I have read the same re:slow launch on the C4 & C4S. The guys at AutoSpies seem to have some insights in the same vein as yours ; mainly in terms of the fact that existing C4 customers don't see the value of the 997 C4 & C4S because:

a.) the C2S is so darned good,

b.) the front valance and rear bumper of the C2(S) and C4(S) are the same, and

c.) the price point is higher than expected.

(Link to 'Spies article)

I truly favor the widebody look, but in the 997 it's not nearly as dramatic a difference as it is between a 996 C2 and a C4 (like yours). It's evident when you have a 997 C2 and C4 sitting next to each other, but how often does that happen in real life?

I think that this might work to my advantage... <g> and I will give Champion a call. Thanks for the heads-up!

You sig says that you're from Michigan? Do you drive your car year-around? I'm in Novi a lot, we have a development center there...

In closing, do you want to expound on any of the quirks you mentioned?

Thanks again man, have a great New Year!

-don

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Thanks, Wazoo. Yeah, I'm in the software industry and can tell you all about incomplete feature implementations, incorrectly loaded databases, and the like. Silly me for thinking that the an option missing from the Porsche configurator (XLF) would be in Edmund's! :P

I really appreciate your insights. I have read the same re:slow launch on the C4 & C4S. The guys at AutoSpies seem to have some insights in the same vein as yours ; mainly in terms of the fact that existing C4 customers don't see the value of the 997 C4 & C4S because:

a.) the C2S is so darned good,

b.) the front valance and rear bumper of the C2(S) and C4(S) are the same, and

c.) the price point is higher than expected.

(Link to 'Spies article)

I truly favor the widebody look, but in the 997 it's not nearly as dramatic a difference as it is between a 996 C2 and a C4 (like yours). It's evident when you have a 997 C2 and C4 sitting next to each other, but how often does that happen in real life?

I think that this might work to my advantage... <g> and I will give Champion a call. Thanks for the heads-up!

You sig says that you're from Michigan? Do you drive your car year-around? I'm in Novi a lot, we have a development center there...

In closing, do you want to expound on any of the quirks you mentioned?

Thanks again man, have a great New Year!

-don

To answer your first question, yes, I drive it all year around (had a nasty encounter with a guard rail in Ann Arbor during the last ice storm in 2004...I think in February.

Yes, I'm from Michigan. And as I like to say, these cars were meant to be driven. No offense to those that like to garage their cars...I just like driving them.

Quirks? Ok...where do I start...

The world's worst AM radio reception...bar none. It's comical, it's so bad. As the dealer said, "it's within the Porsche acceptable range..." ???? HUH? I can't hear the stations? Known problem.

You've heard about RMS (Rear main seals) I'm sure. Lots of folks have had problems...not a major concern for you if you're buying new...but something to think about if you keep the car long term.

Service...depending on your dealer. The local dealer here is so bad a friend of mine and I are considering buying the dealership so we can get better service.

Mass Air Flow Sensor/Check Engine Light. This seems to go off on a regular basis for way too many owners. I've had the problem...the dealerships love to tell you it's going to be $600-$800 for a new MAF. Except...far too often it's something else. Do a search on Mass Air Flow Sensors and Check engine lights on this forum and at Rennlist.

Brakedust...ok, not a big deal...but still a PITA

Unacceptable tiptronic...where's the PDK/SMG/Manumatic/Yada yada? The premiere sportscar company shouldn't have an outdated "automatic" in its 997.

Why is an oil change so complex?

Lousy front trunk space

All in all, though...how can you go wrong? I happily deal with all of it when I'm in an off-ramp, accelerating.

I also think the C2S is awfully good...and with a good set of winter tires, almost as capable as a C4S...but not quite...I'd bet.

Happy New Year!

:beer:

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