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engine blown, opinions, views, help wanted


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a short horror story....

.....starts with beautiful blue sky and a sunny winter thursday morning in northern germany, around 120km of 3 lane autobahn ahead before i get home to hamburg. most of the autobahn has no speed limits, and i knew there would be little traffic so i was in a great mood, behind me about 20 km of country roads which had warmed the engine and myself on a rather cold morning ..4°c...with a smile on my face i accelerated onto the autobahn, taking the rev counter needle up to around 5000 before changing up (tiptronic)...still a bit wary that the mobil 1 oil (which was 2000km old btw) might not be at full operating temp. after a few high speed km i had to slow because of a short part which is limited to 120kmh listening to my V1 for any bogies ... ;)

as soon as the eagerly awaited no speed limit was in sight i went down a gear and accelerated..changing up short before the red line...a great feeling. with my foot flat on the floor i reached a speed of 279 on the digital speedo...had to slow for some twit blocking the left lane which was a great opurtunity to go down a gear again and repeat the "red lineing" once the "twit" had noticed the xenon headlights and the typical porsche silouette which causes 90% of drivers to rapidly vacate the left lane. (its not allowed to pass a car on the right) i kept the car at max speed for a few minutes before slowing again for another car (bmw) who himself was traveling at rather a high speed but was probably one of those poor "ba...rds" that has his max speed limited to 250kmh .. :P ..the process repeated itself a few times and was great fun, and i felt like a :king:

after a while i noticed my top speed was down to 270kmh which puzzled me a bit.

getting near to hamburg there are speedlimits which i kept to because its only right...

coming off the autobahn and stoping at the red light at the end of the slip road i noticed a "clanking" noise..looking around for an east european truck with a big russian worn out diesel engine i was supprised i was the only one around :oops:

i headed straight for my official porsche dealership which was only around 8km away...they diagnosed a valve problem in the right hand cylinder head...

got a call on the phone today. in cyl. 6 a piston ring has disintergrated and left bad marks in the bore and probably damaged other parts in its wake..this they diagnosed by removing the spark plug....an exchange engine is the only way to rapair it they said..12200 euros which is around 14000 USD is the price...plus fluids. (im looking for a crying smiley)

im not rich...i made a dream i have had for many years come true when i bought the car a little over 3 months ago...a 99 carrera2 with 78000km on it...now 82000. it had the big inspection at 80000. its a nightmare now......

i would be very gratefull for thoughts and views..maybe some good tips. do i really have to replace the engine? did i damage it myself just by driving it like it should be driven...i rev the **** out of my motorcycles and have never had any trouble, and they are italian!!! thanks in advance

cheers

kelvin

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Had a similar situation. 2000 996 C4, bought it used about six months ago with 36,000 mile on it. Drove it for several months and no problems. I took the car in to have a PSE put on it When i got it back the engine had a terible vibration around 4000 rpm. Mechanic said he didn't know what it was and I took it to Porsche dealer. They called and told me the cam shaft had slop in it and had evidently spun in the bearing housings. They then told me I would have to have a new motor. I just about started crying as I too could not afford a 20,000 dollar replacement engine. The mechanic at Porsche contacted Porsche and although the car was just out of warrenty Porsche offered to pay for 1/2 the motor. I ended up spending about six grand to get it installed and for my half.

I would deffinetly try to see if porsche will meet you halfway on this as they did me. I guess they have had some problems with thier engines in the 996. I plan on driving the car for another 30,000 mile and then selling it. I am scared that the engines are only good for 40,000 miles. Never did get a reason for the failure, but Porsche's willinness to pay for half leads me to belive that the engines are just poorly built. My ford truck has 250,000 miles on it and no engine problems. :(

really has ruined my experience with Porsche, I am now afraid to drive the car as it should be driven.

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I would try to find an independent Porsche workshop who are capable of rebuilding your engine. There is a company in England who rebuild cylinder blocks - http://www.perfectbore.com - they also do big bore conversions. It has got to be cheaper to rebuild it than replace it. 82,000km isn't that much (mine has 110,000) so it would be a shame to scrap most of the internals for the sake of a damaged liner. Someone on the PCGB forum recently upgraded his early 996 which had 125,000 miles on the clock and was still going strong when he sold it.

Edited by Richard Hamilton
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the chief mech will be contacting porsche to try and get them to contribute to the cost of replacing the engine..but he said there isnt much hope because of the age of the car. he then went on to recommend a porsche specialist that is in hamburg and might be able to rebuild the engine...im going to wait for the probable big "no way" from porsche...im really dissapointed, i really loved driving the car, now i am beginning to think porsches are a big bluff.

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the chief mech will be contacting porsche to try and get them to contribute to the cost of replacing the engine..but he said there isnt much hope because of the age of the car. he then went on to recommend a porsche specialist that is in hamburg and might be able to rebuild the engine...im going to wait for the probable big "no way" from porsche...im really dissapointed, i really loved driving the car, now i am beginning to think porsches are a big bluff.

Pcar is made to be driven it's not you're fault, get a good used engine from a wrecking yard, install it and get over you're dissapointment by driving that one hard also. At 6-7 grand with used engine and install it's well worth the experience.

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what grade of engine oil using?

0W40? or 5W50?

any indication before the engine went south, like noise, smoke, oil comsuption?

get a new engine and drive even harder! :)

no indication at all...i have mobil1 0W? in the car. the car ran beautifully. it even ran good after it happened..no vibes no noticible oil loss or pressure loss, just a small loss of power and a horrible noise...i didnt even notice when exactly it happened..it was only when i stoped a the light that the noise became apparant. at speed it wasent audible at all.

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I just had a new engine installed in my '99 tip coupe (Feb-98 build date). The new engine, bought in SoCal in Feb-06, cost just short of $7,800US. The engine was assembled by Porsche in Sep-05. Installation was additional of course. I got lucky with an extended warranty covering the cost of all of it, except a $200 deductible and incidentals. Plus I upgraded to FabSpeed Mufflers. Now I have a 3-year and 36K-mile factory warranty on a new M96 engine. Lucky me!! :jump:

There is a problem with early cases going porrous. Not all of them went bad obviously but based upon what I have read, a lot have failed. The guy at the extended warranty company knew all about the problem and he knew all the part numbers by heart. The original engine in my car ended up with oil and water intermixing. That was what caused the replacement of my engine. Bearings and rings really don't like coolant where they're expecting oil: stuck valves, ring failure, bearing failure... There was no catastrophic failure in my old engine but Warrantech, the extended warranty insurance company, decided they'd be chasing the problem if they didn't replace the whole unit.

I have read a number of posters stating they've enjoyed 110K miles or more with no trouble, so it's not a certainty that buying a used engine is a bad idea, but the failure of the early M96 engines is by no means a rarity.

My two cents, if you can afford it, I suggest that you buy a new one.

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I just had a new engine installed in my '99 tip coupe (Feb-98 build date). The new engine, bought in SoCal in Feb-06, cost just short of $7,800US. The engine was assembled by Porsche in Sep-05. Installation was additional of course. I got lucky with an extended warranty covering the cost of all of it, except a $200 deductible and incidentals. Plus I upgraded to FabSpeed Mufflers. Now I have a 3-year and 36K-mile factory warranty on a new M96 engine. Lucky me!! :jump:

There is a problem with early cases going porrous. Not all of them went bad obviously but based upon what I have read, a lot have failed. The guy at the extended warranty company knew all about the problem and he knew all the part numbers by heart. The original engine in my car ended up with oil and water intermixing. That was what caused the replacement of my engine. Bearings and rings really don't like coolant where they're expecting oil: stuck valves, ring failure, bearing failure... There was no catastrophic failure in my old engine but Warrantech, the extended warranty insurance company, decided they'd be chasing the problem if they didn't replace the whole unit.

I have read a number of posters stating they've enjoyed 110K miles or more with no trouble, so it's not a certainty that buying a used engine is a bad idea, but the failure of the early M96 engines is by no means a rarity.

My two cents, if you can afford it, I suggest that you buy a new one.

sounds real good...how come the engine was so cheap?..im still waiting to hear from porsche. if they would help a bit with the cost of a new engine thats the way i want to go...i get a 2 year unlimited milleage garantee with that aswell. keeping my fingers crossed that they will have mercy.

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Unless you want to keep your old engine - that price is the exchange price. Your old engine exchanged for a newly rebuilt engine (with a two year warranty). Don't forget there are labor charges for installing it.

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x5rap,

can you share your exp. with your warranty company?

i have a MY01 996 and looking for a warranty company.

thanks

I just had a new engine installed in my '99 tip coupe (Feb-98 build date). The new engine, bought in SoCal in Feb-06, cost just short of $7,800US. The engine was assembled by Porsche in Sep-05. Installation was additional of course. I got lucky with an extended warranty covering the cost of all of it, except a $200 deductible and incidentals. Plus I upgraded to FabSpeed Mufflers. Now I have a 3-year and 36K-mile factory warranty on a new M96 engine. Lucky me!! :jump:

There is a problem with early cases going porrous. Not all of them went bad obviously but based upon what I have read, a lot have failed. The guy at the extended warranty company knew all about the problem and he knew all the part numbers by heart. The original engine in my car ended up with oil and water intermixing. That was what caused the replacement of my engine. Bearings and rings really don't like coolant where they're expecting oil: stuck valves, ring failure, bearing failure... There was no catastrophic failure in my old engine but Warrantech, the extended warranty insurance company, decided they'd be chasing the problem if they didn't replace the whole unit.

I have read a number of posters stating they've enjoyed 110K miles or more with no trouble, so it's not a certainty that buying a used engine is a bad idea, but the failure of the early M96 engines is by no means a rarity.

My two cents, if you can afford it, I suggest that you buy a new one.

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@ loren

yes i know its an exchange, the price quoted from porsche in hamburg was 12,200 euros including all labour costs, plus fluids.. too expensive? a new engine without exchange is over 20000 :o

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x5rap,

can you share your exp. with your warranty company?

i have a MY01 996 and looking for a warranty company.

thanks

I'd also benefit from the info x5rap is looking for ... I'm in the same situation.

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Here's my month-long saga with happy ending:

Day 1 - I took my US '99 tip coupe in for a routine oil change. Oil was found in the coolant and vice versa. Shop called Warrantech. About Day 4 or 5 - Warrantech sent a rep to the shop and confirmed the intermixing. About Day 7 - I called Warrantech. They said, "Be patient." About Day 10 - The guy from Warrantech said, "Would you believe me if I told you I know all the part numbers by heart? There are no good engines in the junk yards, so you'll get a new one. They go porous. Just be patient. This happens all the time. It has to go 'up the chain' to Iowa." About Day 20 - After the shop called and pushed a little, Warrantech issued the necessary claim number to allow the engine to be ordered.

Warrantech was slow, about three weeks overall, but how bad can I complain...really. It would be like waiting a little while to go out with Teri Hatcher. Who really cares once she's ready to go.

Day 25 - Porsche delivers a CX engine to the dealer. (Edmonton, to Ontario, CA to Newport Beach, CA) But, I have a tip which requires the BX engine. I'm not real happy at this point but again...

Day 30 - BX delivered. Sep-05 build date. Day 31 - All coolant pipes in the back changed. There are different pick-up points from the Sep-05 engine compared to the Feb-98 engine it replaced. All rubber hoses in the coolant system were replaced. I paid for most of those. They're so easy to get at with everything out the labor was low. Day 32 - Tip gets serviced with new filter and ATF oil change. ATF was filthy after eight years. It now shifts slightly more smoothly. Day 33 - Engine installed and rear end aligned. Day 34 - Car's ready to go but...tip needs to be programmed so it can go into manual mode. I'm ready to eat the key by now. Day 35 - Shop gets the CD for the tip programming and I'm in the car at the end of the day. It is a beautiful thing.

It took patience but I'm a lucky guy and it's better to be lucky than good.

I upgraded to Fabspeeds because since everything else back there was new, I went for it. Thanks to the Warrantech extended warranty, thirty-five days of a rental car cost just about as much as the whole shebang including the Fabspeeds! I have nothing bad to say about Warrantech. and I love this car. :)

__________________________________________________________

Seen on the back of a Ford Expedition: I'm changing the environment! Ask me how!!

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Here's my month-long saga with happy ending:

Day 1 - I took my US '99 tip coupe in for a routine oil change. Oil was found in the coolant and vice versa. Shop called Warrantech. About Day 4 or 5 - Warrantech sent a rep to the shop and confirmed the intermixing. About Day 7 - I called Warrantech. They said, "Be patient." About Day 10 - The guy from Warrantech said, "Would you believe me if I told you I know all the part numbers by heart? There are no good engines in the junk yards, so you'll get a new one. They go porous. Just be patient. This happens all the time. It has to go 'up the chain' to Iowa." About Day 20 - After the shop called and pushed a little, Warrantech issued the necessary claim number to allow the engine to be ordered.

Warrantech was slow, about three weeks overall, but how bad can I complain...really. It would be like waiting a little while to go out with Teri Hatcher. Who really cares once she's ready to go.

Day 25 - Porsche delivers a CX engine to the dealer. (Edmonton, to Ontario, CA to Newport Beach, CA) But, I have a tip which requires the BX engine. I'm not real happy at this point but again...

Day 30 - BX delivered. Sep-05 build date. Day 31 - All coolant pipes in the back changed. There are different pick-up points from the Sep-05 engine compared to the Feb-98 engine it replaced. All rubber hoses in the coolant system were replaced. I paid for most of those. They're so easy to get at with everything out the labor was low. Day 32 - Tip gets serviced with new filter and ATF oil change. ATF was filthy after eight years. It now shifts slightly more smoothly. Day 33 - Engine installed and rear end aligned. Day 34 - Car's ready to go but...tip needs to be programmed so it can go into manual mode. I'm ready to eat the key by now. Day 35 - Shop gets the CD for the tip programming and I'm in the car at the end of the day. It is a beautiful thing.

It took patience but I'm a lucky guy and it's better to be lucky than good.

I upgraded to Fabspeeds because since everything else back there was new, I went for it. Thanks to the Warrantech extended warranty, thirty-five days of a rental car cost just about as much as the whole shebang including the Fabspeeds! I have nothing bad to say about Warrantech. and I love this car. :)

__________________________________________________________

Seen on the back of a Ford Expedition: I'm changing the environment! Ask me how!!

Are these "porous problems" limited to Pre- 2002 engines, or should I be concerned with engine failure on my 2002 Cab?

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Others, more knowledgeable than me, may have a different view, but my belief is that the problem with cases going porous is limited to the early engines. My car had a Feb-98 build date. It is one of the very early 996's. I don't think the problem is common in '01 and beyond. Some may know of a change in metallurgy adopted by Porsche in 2000 or '01 or some other change in the manufacturing process to eliminate this problem.

I'd drive it like you stole it :drive: and not worry. Check the coolant fill tank in bright light. If you see blobs of oil in the coolant, you'll want to have it inspected. That was the thing that tipped off my mechanic. It seemed pretty obvious when I looked in. I could see the blobs. Warrantech concluded the same thing and bought the new engine.

Those who see a lot of these cars and engines will have a better perspective. I've read posts from owners with high-mileage '99's stating they've had no problems, not even "minor" ones like RMS. My original engine never had an RMS leak. I had the car for one year, essentially all of 2005, and I put 7,000 miles on it. At 42,100 miles, the intermixing was discovered.

My belief/hope is that Porsche solved this problem early on in the life cycle of the M96 engine. I know a Boxster owner who had a bad failure of rings and bearings, probably from the intermixing of coolant in the oil, and that was an early, '98 Boxster after seven years. My bet is that a lot of catastrophic bearing and ring failures in the early engines were written off as "hard driving" or some other BS, not coolant in the oil.

I'm sure there are other opinions out there and who knows what the real percentage of failures is for '99's vs '00's vs '01's vs '02, etc. Enjoy your '02!!

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I feel really sorry for your troubles and at the same time it certainly is a cause for worry for those of us that haven't had any of these problems YET!

Does anyone know statistically how many engines out of total production these terrible failures affected?

As someone else said makes one wonder about the reliability and engineering of the entire species!

Dont get too many horror stories like these about small block Chev motors!

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I feel really sorry for your troubles and at the same time it certainly is a cause for worry for those of us that haven't had any of these problems YET!

Does anyone know statistically how many engines out of total production these terrible failures affected?

As someone else said makes one wonder about the reliability and engineering of the entire species!

Dont get too many horror stories like these about small block Chev motors!

the horror story goes on and on...i got a tip from the official porsche dealership that a very good non-official porsche workshop might be able to help...the guy said he could get me an exchange engine from porsche with 2 year porsche warranty within a week and 3000 euros cheaper than the "porsche zentrum". so i was real happy and contracted him to get my car towed to his workshop. i was really looking forward to getting a brand new engine with all the periferals (have i spellt that right?) even a new exhaust is included!

he called me yesterday with the bad news. porsche raised their prices almost 50% for exchange engines on march 1st. so it was gonna cost the same as the porsche zentrum...unfortunatly i didnt have any written price confirmation or repair contract so i lost out again...im gutted.

Edited by norton-sp
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Not a good week for 911s in Germany. There was a 9964S with 67000km and 2years 5days with total failure as well as a 2001 with 85000km that failed. Both were reported in www.elfertreff.de this week.

Scary!

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I have been reading all of the posts about engine failure and it scares the hell out of me!!

I have a 99 C2 that I bought 2 years ago with 45k mils on it. It now has 58k. I have never had one single problem with it. Im the third owner. Looking through the records the car has never had a problem of any kind mechanically. I've changed the oil and that's it. :clapping:

Im about to do the 60k maintainance. Any tips about things that should be checked??? (besides the usual 60k items).

I have had BMW's and BENZ's in the past and they were nothing but headaches and breakdowns.

My Porsche has been a real treat to own. I drive it hard but dont beat it up.

I'm so sorry that you guys have these horror stories and have taken such a financial beating.

Any advice to look for any suspicious engine problems would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and good luck with your new engines!!!

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Not a good week for 911s in Germany. There was a 9964S with 67000km and 2years 5days with total failure as well as a 2001 with 85000km that failed. Both were reported in www.elfertreff.de this week.

Scary!

i might just sign up there and add a story :angry: i wish i had the money for the new AM Vantage

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I feel really sorry for your troubles and at the same time it certainly is a cause for worry for those of us that haven't had any of these problems YET!

Does anyone know statistically how many engines out of total production these terrible failures affected?

As someone else said makes one wonder about the reliability and engineering of the entire species!

Dont get too many horror stories like these about small block Chev motors!

the horror story goes on and on...i got a tip from the official porsche dealership that a very good non-official porsche workshop might be able to help...the guy said he could get me an exchange engine from porsche with 2 year porsche warranty within a week and 3000 euros cheaper than the "porsche zentrum". so i was real happy and contracted him to get my car towed to his workshop. i was really looking forward to getting a brand new engine with all the periferals (have i spellt that right?) even a new exhaust is included!

he called me yesterday with the bad news. porsche raised their prices almost 50% for exchange engines on march 1st. so it was gonna cost the same as the porsche zentrum...unfortunatly i didnt have any written price confirmation or repair contract so i lost out again...im gutted.

the info above is not quite correct, porsche raised their prices on feb 1st and not as drastic as i was told initially. ..im getting a new exchange engine with 2 year porsche garantie for 11000 euros including all fluids and work. its gonne hurt but not so much as the 13000 i was quoted from an official porsche dealership.

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a short horror story....

.....starts with beautiful blue sky and a sunny winter thursday morning in northern germany, around 120km of 3 lane autobahn ahead before i get home to hamburg. most of the autobahn has no speed limits, and i knew there would be little traffic so i was in a great mood, behind me about 20 km of country roads which had warmed the engine and myself on a rather cold morning ..4°c...with a smile on my face i accelerated onto the autobahn, taking the rev counter needle up to around 5000 before changing up (tiptronic)...still a bit wary that the mobil 1 oil (which was 2000km old btw) might not be at full operating temp. after a few high speed km i had to slow because of a short part which is limited to 120kmh listening to my V1 for any bogies ... ;)

as soon as the eagerly awaited no speed limit was in sight i went down a gear and accelerated..changing up short before the red line...a great feeling. with my foot flat on the floor i reached a speed of 279 on the digital speedo...had to slow for some twit blocking the left lane which was a great opurtunity to go down a gear again and repeat the "red lineing" once the "twit" had noticed the xenon headlights and the typical porsche silouette which causes 90% of drivers to rapidly vacate the left lane. (its not allowed to pass a car on the right) i kept the car at max speed for a few minutes before slowing again for another car (bmw) who himself was traveling at rather a high speed but was probably one of those poor "ba...rds" that has his max speed limited to 250kmh .. :P ..the process repeated itself a few times and was great fun, and i felt like a :king:

after a while i noticed my top speed was down to 270kmh which puzzled me a bit.

getting near to hamburg there are speedlimits which i kept to because its only right...

coming off the autobahn and stoping at the red light at the end of the slip road i noticed a "clanking" noise..looking around for an east european truck with a big russian worn out diesel engine i was supprised i was the only one around :oops:

i headed straight for my official porsche dealership which was only around 8km away...they diagnosed a valve problem in the right hand cylinder head...

got a call on the phone today. in cyl. 6 a piston ring has disintergrated and left bad marks in the bore and probably damaged other parts in its wake..this they diagnosed by removing the spark plug....an exchange engine is the only way to rapair it they said..12200 euros which is around 14000 USD is the price...plus fluids. (im looking for a crying smiley)

im not rich...i made a dream i have had for many years come true when i bought the car a little over 3 months ago...a 99 carrera2 with 78000km on it...now 82000. it had the big inspection at 80000. its a nightmare now......

i would be very gratefull for thoughts and views..maybe some good tips. do i really have to replace the engine? did i damage it myself just by driving it like it should be driven...i rev the **** out of my motorcycles and have never had any trouble, and they are italian!!! thanks in advance

cheers

kelvin

Kelvin, at least before blowing your engine you had some few times of glory cruising at 270!

When I blown it, I was stopped at the traffic light... the noise was exactly tha same you described (I thought to an OM Leoncino - a '50-'60 italian small truck)

This is my story http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=4501&hl=

(I don't know if the link works but in case you can search here for the title of the 3D "another (?) 996 3.4 engine broken..., is normal that a serviced 67.000 Km...".

At last I've spent 11.000 euro for engine, clutch and flywheel replacement.

Since, due to the low mileage, I claimed for extra warranty, after 6 months I had back 1K from Porsche as 30% of the only replacement engine list price (5870€ + VAT).

The "funny" think (it would be very funny to see how this would be considered in a trial...) is that the "opening the engine for failure search" - must for claiming the warranty - costed me 1K.... :censored:

I'm very very very nauseated from Porsche...

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I have been reading all of the posts about engine failure and it scares the hell out of me!!

I have a 99 C2 that I bought 2 years ago with 45k mils on it. It now has 58k. I have never had one single problem with it. Im the third owner. Looking through the records the car has never had a problem of any kind mechanically. I've changed the oil and that's it. :clapping:

Im about to do the 60k maintainance. Any tips about things that should be checked??? (besides the usual 60k items).

I have had BMW's and BENZ's in the past and they were nothing but headaches and breakdowns.

My Porsche has been a real treat to own. I drive it hard but dont beat it up.

I'm so sorry that you guys have these horror stories and have taken such a financial beating.

Any advice to look for any suspicious engine problems would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and good luck with your new engines

i sincerly hope that your engine holds out...i had no warnings, there was no indication that anything was about to happen, the car had all the inspections done at an official dealership and the large inspection at 80000km was also done with a comment " great condition"

i shall be picking my car up tomorrow, with a new engine and 2 years garantie. im really looking forward to it..but how will i feel after 2 years? ill tell you, SCARED :eek:

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