Estremo

They have now run the variocam manually and it seems to be ok. They have also checked the right cylinder bank and couldn’t see any scratches. In cylinder four and six they however saw some traces of oil. What could this mean?

It can be heard at lower rpm’s too but a little bit clearer at 1400 rpm.

I used 10W40. I read a little bit about different weights and peoples opinions of changing it but ending up going for that. Maybe I should have tried something else?

21 hours ago, wizard said:

"You can here it a little bit more at around 1400 rpm." 

 

Something to do with Variocam/timing chain tensioner?  Alternatively, piston slap?

This gave me a couple of new things to research, great! I will talk to the mechanic about it too.

What I really haven’t found an answer to is if it would quite down/almost disappear when hot if it was the variocam or timing chain tensioner?

For the piston slap I understand that this is the case. Also I have listened to a couple of video clips of 996 with piston slap now and I must say that the sound is rather familiar to how mine sounds, unfortunately...

Have I understood it right that you could remove the coils and insert an inspection camera and see if it looks like a piston slap problem?

I’m going to update this thread since everything wasn’t fine after all. The water pump runs fine so that noise is gone.

The other noise is still there though. The reason for me thinking it was gone is that it almost disappears completely when the engine is hot after three minutes or so. After that it can be heard when the belt is off. I also think it could have become a little bit quiter after the oil change, at least when it’s hot. You can here it a little bit more at around 1400 rpm.

I left it to my Porsche Center and after putting down a couple of hours they still haven’t traced the sound and thought that maybe they won’t even if they keep going. Now I don’t know if I should just get the car and keep running it to see if the noise will change in time so it will get easier to trace it or tell them to keep looking. They hadn’t heard a car sounding like that before so they placed a ticket to Porsche Germany to see if they could get som help.

It sounded like their feeling was that it isn’t anything that bad and that I should just keep driving it but since they don’t know what it is they can’t be sure of course and don’t want to say to much.

Has anyone heard a Boxster sounding like this before or have a clue of what it can be? I’m really out of ideas and don’t know if I dare to keep on driving it, but leaving it to the mechanics didn’t help either.

In the video the engine is cold and it sounds a lot more then in real life since I’ve but the mic to the crank shaft.

All help is greatly appreciated.

I might as well share videos on it too.

Without belt: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XJkt5FHdd1mfSBd7kWwWcllR0CNP0LE5

With belt: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1l3zHzYZAzqKqFOtwX6zWK1AHU2GsEEbE

On 8/11/2018 at 1:28 PM, wizard said:

Unfortunately, the operative words in this case are "if it's ..."

 

Again, if it was me, I'd drop, cut open and inspect the oil filter. The cost of an oil filter and one litre of oil would be worth at least the peace of mind that the problem is not so serious as to result in bits of metal circulating in the oil.

 

Hooking up a Durametric cable and looking at actual values would provide even greater peace of mind, of course.

 

I drive a Tiptronic but I believe that (if it is an RMS leak and depending upon the severity) an RMS leak can result in an oil-saturated clutch plate. Is a clutch replacement anywhere near due on your car?

 

 

This turned out to be a very good idea. Before doing anything else I probed different areas for the noise with my new mechanical stethoscope and I thought it could be heard most clearly from the right side of the engine block, like where the exhaust goes out from the block. It could also be heard at the exhaust itself and the cats, underneath the car like where the drain plug for the coolant is.

I than cut open the oil filter and everything looked fine. No metal pieces at all. I also installed a magnetic oil drain plug. I figured if I'll do that I might as well do an oil change too since it was over it's time to do so. The oil was black which surprised me since I thought it looked it's regular chocolate brown when I have looked at the dipstick, but apparently not. I believe it also can have been a little too much since I got out 8.5 litres which is more then I usually get when I change it.

After the oil change I can't here the noice anymore. It can still be heard with the belt off but much less. I don't think I had reacted at it in the first place if that was how it sounded then. Is it normal too hear some engine noice like that when running it without the belt? The same kind of sound as the first video in a previous post in which I posted three videos, but much quiter. With the belt on it can't be heard at all anymore. The car sounds just like it should to my ears.

What values would I be looking at when running the engine? I don't have a Durametric but I do have an Autel Mot Pro that I can view values with.

The clutch is fine (and the sound doesn't change when the clutch is in). Should it be changed at an service interval you mean? If not it's not near a clutch replacement as far as I can tell. The car has 87000 miles on it.

If it’ RMS or IMS seal, is it ok to drive for a while as long as I keep an eye on the oil level? I haven’t noticed any drop at the level.

Same thing if it’s the catalytic converter making the noice, is it ok to drive with it?

The season here is very short so everything you can wait with until the winter is great.

Edit: Yes it’s a manual.

Edit again: I think it’s most likely to come from the right side of the car.

Yes it has. It's electrical though and I think it's rather hard to tell differences. Maybe I should get another one, a mechanical?

To my ears the sound from the first video with the belt off is what is heard in the next two videos, even if it's not that loud in them. Based on that I however don't think it's something of the other spinning parts.

I also must say that it's incredible how people take their time to help others here. I hope I can pay that forward when there's other things I know off.

1 hour ago, Ahsai said:

I hear some pingimg sound in the first video that sounds like a loose element inside a catalytic converter so you may want to use your stethoscope to check out both cats, the area where the engine and the transmission mate (IMS), on engine heads and then move toward the crank. Just probe anywhere (safely). Also check if all spark plugs are tight.

 

The same sound is also hidden in the second video.

 

The last video has two different sound. One very rapid ticking, which is likely from the evap regeneration valve (normal). The other rattle sound is less regular, sounds like something loose and rattling. Probe the idle pulleys, the alternator case carefully with the stethoscope.

 

You may also want to try depressing the clutch and see if the noise changes.

It's very hard to say with the stethoscope but maybe the sound gets louder at one of the catalytic converters. What to do if it's a loose element?

I have tightened all the spark plugs. Wouldn't the sound disappear with the belt off if it was the idle pulleys or alternator case? I'm actually not sure what these are but is it the three drive belt rollers? Two of the rollers make a sound when spinning them so I'm planning to change them too but they wouldn't make any sounds with the belt off, right?

I'm not sure if it's related or not but I also found this under the car. Normal or not?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1olXrmLwooUE1u8ZxGOBgu85QVeUnPsMP

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1lC8kvGyC8anr4-l9AX353IK8cKbNuz-G

https://drive.google.com/open?id=170L5_SsxQwPUvjbsK-QRnBlP-V7Uag1q

https://drive.google.com/open?id=18PsoRjzYPi_z4aKLPublaiUqEAraLs5S

13 hours ago, wizard said:

The Boxster S takes 22 litres +/- (5.8 US gallons) to fill from empty. That's 11 litres of coolant. It's ill-advised to mix different coolants.

 

Once done and you have the engine running, don't forget to open the burp valve for bleeding air from the system ... and keep a close eye on engine temperature.

11 hours ago, Ahsai said:

What Wizard said above. Perhaps you can call the dealer and ask if they can get part number 000-043-305-75, which is the 1gal coolant. I don't see why they can't order it from Porsche.

On 8/8/2018 at 8:24 PM, JFP in PA said:

 

You are only going to get about 80-85% of the old mix out by simply gravity draining it, if you want to get more out you will need to do at least one or two flushes, preferably with distilled water.  As for the new water pump and thermostat, I would just install them and then do the flushes.

I have taken all of your advices and just flushed it with distilled water and will get the Porsche coolant next. Thank you very much!

When having the car running after changing the water pump it turns out that it actually was the pump making the noice so that is the answer on my original question. It feels really good to have that sorted out.

This does however bring up new questions. When the water pump being quiet the sound that I prior to the replacement could only hear with the belt off is now noticeable when the belt is on too. This was how it sounded with the belt off: 

And now the car sounds like this when it's running:

I also have this ticking that I don't know if it's normal or not. I think the "knocking" sound could be heard here also (maybe better than in the previous clip): 

Is this something to be worried about or is it normal?

1 hour ago, Ahsai said:

Porsche coolant is available in 1gal container https://www.sunsetporscheparts.com/oem-parts/porsche-antifreeze-3785-l-00004330575

You will need ~3gals if you flush out all the old coolant (~6gals). I think it's best to go with Porsche and not to mix with other coolant.

 

If you want to flush out all the old coolant without removing too many hoses, I've developed a method for 996 that many have used and got great results. Perhaps you could adapt it to your Boxster.

 

I don't think they sell it in anything else but litre bottles here. 1 litre is 18 USD. Not to mention the nearest shop is 1.5 hour away. But if you really think I should go with Porsche I guess I have a drive ahead of me tomorrow...

Is it ~6gals in the Boxster too? I've seen some different figures and actually thought I was rather close now.

Your method seem very smart, I wish I had seen that before. Since I have just drained it the old fashioned way and now know how to do it and have connected all the hoses again to flush it with distilled water first thing in the morning, I think I'll stick to that plan however.

22 hours ago, JFP in PA said:

 

The reason for replacing it all is that nothing is forever, particularly "lifetime" coolants.  They all break down over time, lose their additive packages and thus pH  and corrosion control.  Realistically, coolants, even so-called "lifetime" systems need to be replaced every 5-7 years, or earlier if they show signs of failing.

I'll take your advice and flush it once with distilled water. So far I have gravity drained it and think I got 14-15 litres out of it.

Do anyone know if it's ok to mix Porsche coolant with VW/Audi G13 coolant. People seem to use that in their Porsches so I figured I'll do that too if it's ok?

I already have two litres of Porsche coolant so if it's ok to mix I guess I use those to litres together with VW/Audi. And if not I will only use VW/Audi.

Or as a third option I buy just Porsche coolant if that's a better option. The price difference isn't that big here but my nearest Porsche dealer is really for away.

4 minutes ago, JFP in PA said:

 

You are only going to get about 80-85% of the old mix out by simply gravity draining it, if you want to get more out you will need to do at least one or two flushes, preferably with distilled water.  As for the new water pump and thermostat, I would just install them and then do the flushes.

I would prefer to install them first so that's some good news. Maybe I'm off my own topic now but what is really the advantage of replacing it all? The cooling temp is rarely an issue but of course I want to do everything I can to take care of my engine if other bad things can happen.

4 minutes ago, JFP in PA said:

The original coolant in early 986 Boxsters was green and was superseded by pink years ago.  While the pink is backwards compatible with the green, I would dump the entire system and start with a fresh 50/50 mix with distilled water for maximum protection and life expectancy.

Thank you, then I guess I probably have the original. Would you just dump it as getting everything it all out and then refilling it with new coolant or also flush it completely with distilled water once before refilling it with new coolant?

Does it really matter if I change the water pump and thermostat before refilling? Thinking in terms of not wanting "bad fluid" running through the new parts.

On 7/31/2018 at 10:18 PM, Ahsai said:

With the belt off, you use the stethoscope (a simple mechanical $10 one will suffice) to trace where the noise is coming from by touching the suspicious areas. Check out the video of how to use one here.

 

When the belt is off, the idle load on the engine is much less and that may make a difference in terms of generating noise. No need to guess anyway, just use the stethoscope to  probe different places of the engine until you locate the source of the noise.

 

I'm  back home again and with a new stethoscope but it wasn't as easy to track down as I would have hoped. What I missed last time however is that two out of three rollers are making some sounds that I don't think they should. As I understand it they should be quiet so I probably should replace them anyway. Is it possible that they would make noises like this when they are going bad?

I started replacing the water pump also and found green coolant, was this color ever used in the 986? I bought two litres of Porsche coolant since my Porsche center said that it's what I need to refill after replacing the water pump. They didn't changed the coolant so I thought that neither should I, but now I'm not sure if I should flush it completely while doing this work or if I should just fill it up?

On 7/31/2018 at 10:18 PM, Ahsai said:

With the belt off, you use the stethoscope (a simple mechanical $10 one will suffice) to trace where the noise is coming from by touching the suspicious areas. Check out the video of how to use one here.

 

When the belt is off, the idle load on the engine is much less and that may make a difference in terms of generating noise. No need to guess anyway, just use the stethoscope to  probe different places of the engine until you locate the source of the noise.

 

 

 

Good point about the engine load. That makes sence.

I'm away at the moment but listen with a stethoscope is the first thing I'll do when I'm home again. An electrical seems good in the sence that I could use sound isolated earphones, but maybe the outside noice doesn't disturb that much wich a mechanical one.

I came to think about an earliear question about tightening the spark plugs. Would a bad coil possibly produce the same sound as a loose spark plug?

On 8/1/2018 at 2:22 AM, kbrandsma said:

I recently chased down a noise on my '98 986.  

 

With the belt off the noise went away.  Every thing like rollers, water pump, alternator all spinned freely.  With the belt back on and a $10 stethoscope from "Harbor Freight" , I deduced that the noise was coming from the alternator's front bearing.  I took it to a local auto electrical shop and had it rebuilt for $125.  Problem solved.  

 

 

That gives me great hope, thanks!

22 hours ago, Ahsai said:

For some reason I missed some of your video clips till now. The crank pulley doesn't look wobbly to me. However, that pinging sound is not good and I can't tell what it is because it doesn't sound like lifter or bore scoring to me. It does follow the rpm directly so it's something reciprocating internal of the engine.

 

Your water pump needs replacement for sure and the a/c compressor clutch is not too bad. I would definitely try to track down that pinging sound first (by using a stethoscope carefully) with the drive belt off the engine.

That's exactly the kind of comments I was hoping for, great!

It isn't wobbly, it was just a way of describing the sound. But ok, then I'm not the only one that thinks that sound is scary.

I will buy a stethoscope but what should I do with it with the belt off? Just put it against different places of the engine? It can't be heard at all when the belt on so my feeling is that the pulley is making the sound when the belt doesn't hold it place, or something like that.

Will also order a new waterpump and a thermostat while I'm at it.

22 hours ago, Ahsai said:

Also check if that pinging sound is from one of the catalytic converters (loose element inside) and all the spark plugs are tight.

Wouldn't make that sound no matter if the belt is on or off it was catalytic converters? I have tighten all the spark plugs and they were ok.

3 hours ago, wizard said:

My advice was based on the "wobbly crankshaft" scenario.

 

I hope that it is (only) a duff aircon compressor.

 

Let us know what the problem is  ... and good luck.

 

 

 

Yes that is a very good point and the crankshaft is what concerns me the most. I will just have to decide in what end I should start. Thank you!

2 hours ago, Ahsai said:

The a/c compressor should not feel scratchy but I'm not sure if it's enough to make the unpleasant sound you described.

 

Since you mentioned you can hear the noise when the car is stationary, you can use a mechanical stepthoscope to check the a/c compressor pulley (the clutch is stationary when the a/c is off) by touching the probe on the pulley. Obviously, be very careful though with all the moving engine parts.

Another great tip! I will make a little list of things to order to get this going since my nearest (which is still far away) Porsche center had a months waiting time to get it fixed. At least a new water pump is on the list since it seems to be due for a change no matter if it's whats causing the noice now or not.

I'm still very open for new ideas or if anobody recognize the noice or now if the crankshaft sound is normal or not.

9 hours ago, Ahsai said:

How about the alternator, the steering pump and all the pulleys when you hand spin them?

12 hours ago, wizard said:

The only piece of advice that I can give is not to drive your car until you know how serious the problem is.

My first step would be to remove the oil filter, sift the oil which is in the bottom of the filter canister and cut open the filter itself to inspect if there are any ferrous particles in particular in there which obviously should not be there.

 

P.S. You don't need to drain the oil from the sump ... just remove the filter.

Thank you for the advice. I guess I wouldn't find anything unusual there if it's the water pump or AC compressor that is making the noice? A good clue that it's something else if I find something though.

9 hours ago, Ahsai said:

How about the alternator, the steering pump and all the pulleys when you hand spin them?

I would say that everything else sounds normal. The only wheel that sounds wrong when hand spinning it is the AC compressor with it's slightly scraping sound. Do anyone know if all the other wheels are on the same place on the non AC version so I can buy a belt for a Boxster without AC and see if the sound disappears when the AC isn't spinning?

I'm answering my own question after finally finding (at least I think so) what the problem was. After trying with the inside door handle microswitch disconnected the car locked and unlocked perfectly. The window also dropped from the outside.

The switch itself was working but one of the cables that you connect to the switch was a little loose. After pushing it in its place in the connector everything works again. All these problems for such a small thing... I haven't read about someone else having this problem so hopefully someone can be saved in the future if checking this before spending too much time with it.

The bad news is that while tearing down half the car trying to find the problem, I created a new one. Now the window drops from both inside and outside but it doesn't stay up after letting go of the handles. Can someone confirm that this is a broken door lock mechanism?

I even took the microswitch that check if the door is closed in the latch apart so it wouldn't be a big surprise if something went wrong, even though I was careful.