tholyoak

Sounds like a bad starter to me. Had the same sound on the old 3.4 in my boxster. The shaft in the starter sticks in the extended position and rattles on the starter gear on the flywheel for a second before retracting. Replaced my starter and all was well. I have several extra starters if you want to swap it out and check.

Todd

Well disconnecting it should not do anything to the DME. Although I bought a used 996 dme once and when I received it and hooked it up to the PST2, it was blank. So I had to reprogram it from scratch. So I guess anything is possible. I would check the fuses first.

Todd

Are you using your old DME? If not then the new DME must be matched to the immobilizer code in your car.

If this is not the case and you are sure the wiring is correct make sure and check fuses C1-C4, in particular C1.

The fact you have not added the braces and exhaust will not prevent the car from running.

The process of 'jumpering' components is not one I would recommend. Electronics are expensive and easily fried. If these components worked before your engine swap, it is obviously most likely it is something you have done during the swap process and not a new failure of the fuel pump etc.

Todd

Sounds like you have a ROW engine, but the DME is not running an ROW program and thus thinks there should be a signal from the second cam sensor that is not there. I would suggest you have the DME flashed with the proper ROW programming.

It is not a fault of the Durametric software, it is simply reporting the codes that are present. The code is in the DME so the Durametric is reporting it.

Todd

There are no issues running the ROW program. As long as the first set of O2 sensors are present to control the mixture, the ROW program ignores the 2nd set that detects CAT efficiency.

Todd

I believe the only reason the X51 was not offered on a Tip was the requirement for the additional center radiator for cooling of the motor not being available on the Tip. There appears to be no other reason, physical or electronic, for not putting an X51 in a Tip.

Todd

I think every 996 that I have heard with a light weight flywheel - rattles some at idle.

...A very easy way to avoid this voise is to slightly push the gear lever in front(3rd gear),when you are stationary in neutral.

This is a great way to reduce the life of your transmission substantially. I would recommend NOT taking this advice, if you can't handle the noise, make sure you have a sprung clutch disc to work with the LWF not the stock one as it is made to work with the dual mass flywheel. If you still can't take the rattle, put back the stock flywheel and clutch.

Todd

Electronically the 3.6L GT3 uses the same DME as the regular motor so you shouldn't have any issues.

You have to ask the question why?

For the $35k a GT3 engine will cost you, you could sell your car and buy an actual GT3. Same reason I think that sticking a 3.6 in a 3.4 car is a poor use of money as you can just buy a 996 3.6 (i.e. a later car). The reasons that we stick the bigger motors in the boxster is the fact that Porsche doesn't sell this car so it makes it worth the effort in my view.

Todd

Wow - Ziiz996, very sorry to hear about what you're dealing with.... but now I have to ask a question of Loren and Todd on this thread given how knowledgable they are about conversions...

I've been playing with the idea of putting a 996 GT3 motor and turbo transaxle in my '02 996 C4S. This would be instead of supercharging the 996 engine and seeing if I can re-gear the 996 transmission (or just the final drive - do you know if someone offers a different final drive?). I know all the rational arguments for why I shouldn't even think of doing it but I love the car, love what I've done to it so far and the way I have it dialed in at this point, and am curious to know if this is a reasonable option.

Do you know if anyone has done this successfully and/or if I will encounter electronics issues?

Thanks for your time and opinions.

-Lu

JFP is correct, if the control unit is properly installed, it receives a switched 12V. Thus when you turn the key on you should hear the lights cycle up and down. Sounds like you don't have a good 12V connection or a good ground powering to the control unit.

Todd

For the older systems you need both the immobilizer and dme codes for dme programming, for the newer (7.8) versions if you are just remapping and not reprogramming you only need the dme code. Some dealers are better at providing the info than others. According to the dealer I deal with, Porsche has mandated stricter controls on the release of the info. My feeling is that it is your car, and you have the right to have the codes.

Todd

Does the factory give out the 6-digit hex DME programming code

associated with your VIN w/o a "good" reason?

Bill

I think you only need that for keys or alarms not DME programming.

If you can provided proof of ownership there is no reason they should not supply you with it.

I would think no more than 1 hour of labor - it should only take a few minutes.

Could anyone give me the steps involved in the reprogramming? I just scheduled an appointment with the dealer, but they didn't really sound like they have done this before. I am sure that if I can give them a few pointers they will be able to figure it out, so all the help you can give me will be really appreciated.

Thank you in advance:)

The procedure is in the factory manual. They should be able to do it easily. The process differs depending on the year of your car (whether it is 5.2.2, 7.2 or 7.8)

Todd

The problem lies in the fact that all the control units must be scanned to allow for cluster coding. If you scan the systems as Boxster, you will get a '?' by the cluster as it isn't recognized as a boxster cluster. Now if you do a 996 control unit scan the only thing recognized as 996 is the cluster, and since the DME contains the vehicle info, you can't change the coding in the cluster. This isn't a problem with my car as all the systems are recognized as '996'. The easiest thing to do would be to plug the cluster into a 996 and code it the way you want, then the swap would be a plug and play situation.

Todd

Looking at your little sheet you don't seem to realize that there are 26 pins on each of the old instrument connectors and 32 on each of the new ones. You also don't seem to realize how much work this was for me to figure all of this out.

For the pin removal/ installation for the cluster connectors you don't actually need any special tools, just remove the outer coloured casing and it is quite obvious how to remove the pins with a small pin or screwdriver.

Todd

999.650.294.40 (black), 999.650.294.40 (gray) for some reason both these 9 pin connectors have the same part number but the additional number provided B09A02 and B09A07 is different,

999.650.299.40, 999.650.302.40, 999.650.297.40

I have been told they are not available as spare parts, if you find out differently I would appreciate it if you let me know

Todd

The issue with the temp and the cooling fans most likely is a result of not correctly wiring up the coolant temp sensor. The 3.6 uses a single NTC element, the signal is provided to the DME which interprets the resistance as a temp and controls the actuation of the blowers and also sends the temp signal to the cluster via the CAN network. The older motors use a double NTC element, one part is used for the dme, the other is the signal directly to the temp gauge and warning lights on the cluster. Not knowing what was done, leads me to believe this is the most likely problem. The other possibility would be the incorrect HVAC controls, since the fans are also cycled by the AC may be leading to the lack of the low speed fans.

Todd

Where did you get the 3 Male connectors for the back of the instr Cluster?

I have a complete chassis harness from a 2003 car. You need the blue and green connector, the other one you only need like 4 pins from for a non tiptronic so the original 3rd connector can be made to work.

And how on earth did you figure out the wiring for the new connectors?

Time, patience and wiring diagrams.

I don't know what else to say, until you get things installed properly it is just guessing what is wrong with the car. If you can get the car to me, I would be glad to help out with it, otherwise I don't know what other information I can offer.

Todd

Air intake upstream of the throttle body, not intake manifold.

Todd

I rewired the harness and added the new connectors to add the later cluster. In order to integrate the later cluster you will have to do the same. The turbo cluster is different than the non-turbo. The 2002-on cluster is the same for all 996 except there is one for tiptronic and one for the 6 speed. The coupe, cab and C4 of the same trans type use the same cluster.

I really think that if the engine and DME are installed properly the engine should run more or less correctly. The necessity of the cluster the HVAC and ABS updates are to get everything to work properly (like the A/C, check engine lights, speedo, tach etc) and not have any control unit errors.

As I used to live in Woburn,MA I am interested in the shop that did this work. Care to share?

Todd

My Dear Todd You are so correct...

I removed the existing cluster (Thx to Loren's instructions it was a 10 min Job) and the cconnectors ARE DIFFERENT.

When you swapped your cluster what did you do? How involved is this job? I like to know if possible.

I am interested to know so I can make a decision on moving on. Would a turbo 01 with VC+ have similar clusters to 02-04 or pre 02?

I am lucky that I bought an 02-04 silver faced 6 speed cluster at a good deal.

Now that I have an updated DME would it make sense to buy the harness for the cluster?

Thx Todd again.

I understand your rationale, I just feel sorry for you that someone has hacked your car.

I wouldn't make that broad generalization about the M96 engines. They have some issues, but so has every other engine Porsche has ever made.

At least the replacement cost is reasonable, if you have a problem with a 964/993 or GT3 engine it is going to cost you ~$35k to get a new one of those.

Unfortunately you can't just swap clusters, the connectors on the 2001 and earlier 996 are different than the 2002 on clusters, running the can bus is not a difficult task it is just a pair of wires between the DME and the cluster and the ABS controller and another set between the cluster and the HVAC controller. The updated cluster is more than just a set of gauges, it asks as a gateway for the CAN bus network allowing all the independent controllers to communicate.

Todd

You will want to consider a new intake as the Boxster one is undersized for the 3.6, also I would either put a new dual mass flywheel in there or a lightweight one. You may want to replace the front engine mount depending on the mileage on your car. You will need to have the ecu programmed to match the immobilizer in your car.

Todd

I understand your rationale, I just feel sorry for you that someone has hacked your car.

I wouldn't make that broad generalization about the M96 engines. They have some issues, but so has every other engine Porsche has ever made.

At least the replacement cost is reasonable, if you have a problem with a 964/993 or GT3 engine it is going to cost you ~$35k to get a new one of those.

Unfortunately you can't just swap clusters, the connectors on the 2001 and earlier 996 are different than the 2002 on clusters, running the can bus is not a difficult task it is just a pair of wires between the DME and the cluster and the ABS controller and another set between the cluster and the HVAC controller. The updated cluster is more than just a set of gauges, it asks as a gateway for the CAN bus network allowing all the independent controllers to communicate.

Todd

Would the ECU 996.618.604.00 be the unit needed to make my 2001 Boxster S run a 3.6 liter variocam car(less the cruise control)?

Yes

Would I also need the 996 instrument cluster?

Yes

Does that alter the indicated mileage on my car?

unless you buy a new one with no miles so that it can be set to the current mileage of your car or you send it out to a speedo shop like PA Speedo so they can set it to the mileage of your car

What year models of 996 would be appropriate donors?

For what? The motor 2002-on.

Could I save myself wiring dilemas by sourcing a dme harness from the 996

No, the 996 harness doesn't fit properly. If you want a harness that needs no modification get a 2002 or later boxster harness

If you love Renntech and find this information useful, perhaps it is time to become a contributing member? ;)

Todd

Well if you don't integrate the proper systems I'm sure it will work, it just won't work properly, as it appears your case proves.

If the DME is wired correctly the communication between the DME and the motor will be fine, however all the signals received and transmitted back and forth from the cluster will not be communicated by the DME and you will have tons of OBDII errors and probably result in poor performance not to mention never being able to pass any sort of inspection. From your original post, it doesn't even sound like the engine harness has been integrated properly into the chassis.

I don't understand the logic of buying a Porsche and then hacking it up by doing things half assed (this is not directed at you, but your installer). Presumably you bought a porsche for the enjoyment you get from driving it, clearly not doing the integration of the larger motor in this fashion isn't going to get you back to that point. You could run the stock DME and components and add an aftermarket controller to control the VC+, I did this originally as I researched things since my car is my daily driver. It works OK, but I don't think you would be happy with it on a street car, a track car where you spend all your time at full throttle it would be fine but on a street car, your part throttle maps are much more important. So I would say either do it right or don't do it at all.

Yes the CAN network can be added afterwards, this is how you do the conversion properly. The can bus communicates between the various control units, not between the engine and the DME.

You don't want parts from a turbo.

Todd

Todd,

Can you possibly run the 3.6 w/out CAN? Or did this tuner have to wire CAN from the DME to the Variocam+ connectors on engine? IF he did! then

Would Variocam+ (VC+) work? or

Does the DME revert to another mode if it can't activate VC+?

Have you dynoed your current 3.6? Just curious what you got for HP and FT/LB

If I install a new cluster, is it enough to get VC+ running? (Assuming the tuner did put in CAN?

The 00 cluster is running, but miserably (Porsche computer showed a different temp to Instrument Cluster then the one to DME.) So can I assume that the tuner only put CAN from DME to Engine but not to cluster?

My last Question is: Is CAN twisted pair added in parallel to the harness or is it included in the 02+ harness? If it is, can I run a special CAN to the Instrument Cluster? Would a 01 turbo be the ideal car to use parts from because it was the first car with VC+ before Porsche switched over the C2 to CAN technology?

P.S. If you noticed that I am asking you to speculate, it is because the tuner has been feeding me a lot of B%^ S&^^ and I can't get a consistent or straight answer out of him as to what he did to the car? I have been very patient with him to no avail...

1. There are 2 CAN bus networks, the engine CAN bus connecting the ABS, the Instrument cluster and the DME, and the comfort CAN bus connecting the instrument cluster, the HVAC control, and the PCM

2. The can bus is simply a twisted wire pair, essentially multiple signals pass over the same wires rather than have a dedicated wire for each signal, you also need the components that can communicate in this fashion, this is why you need to upgrade the ABS, the cluster, the DME and the HVAC control

3. The 7.2 DME wiring integrates into the chassis differently than the 7.8 does, so you need to make sure the wiring mates up correctly at the different connectors

The ABS will work fine, it just doesn't send the proper signals to the cluster, for instance when you upgrade to the later cluster, the speed signal from the ABS sensors comes over the CAN bus from the ABS controller.

Yes my car is running the factory 7.8 DME controlling the motor, just as it would in a later 996. This weekend it is getting a new X51 engine installed to replace the standard 3.6 I have been running for the last year.

Todd

As I have outlined in the Boxster section, you will need to replace the DME, the HVAC controller, the instrument cluster and the ABS controller (a 2001 ABS 5.3 setup will work but your cruise won't be operational, if you want the cruise to work you need to update to the later 5.7, 4 channel ABS. You don't need to upgrade to the returnless fuel system, your current setup can be modified to work, they both operate at 3.8 Bar. In addition to swapping parts, you need to make a bunch of wiring changes and add the comfort and DME CAN bus circuits.

A PM, is a personal message, one of the ways available to communicate with other members on the board.

Todd

Actually Loren my car runs the proper 7.8 Motronic setup. Originally I ran the 5.2.2 with an aftermarket controller, but that was just an interm solution until I obtained all the parts I need to integrate the 7.8 DME into my '99 Boxster. Your 2000 996 should have been a much simpler proposition.

You need to replace a lot of components to have everything work. If you send me a PM I would be glad to help you out. You will get some idea of what is required by looking at my posts on the boxster section

Sounds like they didn't modify the wiring harness properly or upgrade the necessary components so the 7.8 DME can communicate with the other systems properly.

Todd