c70Pete

I have had many cars over the years, and have NEVER added oil between oil changes, including my Porsche.

With my 2006 987S I did the following:

1) Religiously followed the break-in procedure (not easy to do!)

2) Changed the oil at the 1,000 mile mark (I think this is a good thing and worth the $$)

3) My last 3 oil changes (yearly) have been with Red Line 5W40

there seems to be this popular notion, a follow the leader mentality that an engine that does not burn oil is somehow better than an engine that does when in fact the only downside with the latter is the annoyance factor in topping off oil however frequently you need to do it. more greater the frequency the more annoying it gets.

so long as it's within porsche's allowance, i wouldn't be afraid of the engine... with that said.... porsche's allowance requires a lot of annoying time spent topping off plus expense.

my S54 M3 engine burned oil. it dynoed higher than any stock S54 at the dyno day here back several years ago. my f20c honda engine burned oil. same dyno results relative to others. i followed the break-in guidelines to a tee. so me making the claim that an engine that does burn moderate amounts of oil means greater relative power output... it's just as absurd of a claim/notion that it's somehow better, more desireable to have an engine that does burn oil.

good luck with your "issue". not many porsches that i've read about burn as much oil as yours. it seems excessive. but again the answer is not running oil weights/brands not on porsche's recommended list.

your engines made more HP because they were loose... oval cylinders... worn rings... so less friction... hence more HP... you know what they say.... they run the strongest just before they blow!! just like a higher mileage engine performing better... once its broken in its a lot faster... its looser... but oil burning @ 1 quart per 600 miles means something else is wrong...

FYI, if it helps at all...my 02 C4S currently with 91k miles, surprisingly does not burn any oil at all. The dipstick shows the exact same level from oil change to the next, a year later. I'm also using 15W50.

have you been using 15W50 since day one?

Jon,

can you share your test results with us...? values for leakdown and compression?

did you complete the x51 oil pump install? Pictures and detils of the maching of the vavle cover please

Thanks, David

I want to do this mod on my 02 3.6

the heads on the 3.6 allowed for better flow of oil around the engine.... if you haven't done so already you should install the X-51 oil pan and you should be ok.

you should do a leak down AND compression test on your engine.... high oil consumption is a sign of internal wear.... it sounds like you track it a lot as well so these tests will tell you whether to keep or get rid of the car...

from what I'm seeing the 2002+ cars had more IMS bearing failures than the older 3.4 cars!!!

thats prob cuz the 3.4s rarely lasted long enough to see an IMS failure :D

good luck with the repairs, bud. i don't recommend the aftermarket. there's just 0 data/history.

the 3.4's don't last long enough to see IMS failures...? my 3.4 has outlasted many 3.6's which had IMS failures... my engine didn't have IMS failure but big end bearing failure from oil starvation... there have been more 3.6 IMS failures than 3.4 IMS failures especially with 2002-03... and I have discussed this with my porsche service rep and he agrees....

as for the aftermarket do you really think Jake Raby's solution is no good? hmmm I'm inclined to think *anything* is better than what porsche put in there... but now that its out in the open I think its good to service and replace the IMS bearing every 30,000 miles just for peace of mind... for $700 just make it part of your regular maintenance...

if the case specs were good then I would go with the aftermarket heavy duty bearing.... from what I'm seeing the 2002+ cars had more IMS bearing failures than the older 3.4 cars!!!

I'm getting a new 3.4 for my 99 and it comes with a 2 year warranty... but when that warranty runs out and I'm in there doing a clutch job you can bet that I'll be replacing the IMS bearing with something more substantial... if your bearing breaks you can kiss your engine good bye....

go for the aftermarket bearing...

Probably not a bad idea at all. I hope it turns out to be nothing. :)

keep an eye on your oil pressure readings here... if you have abnormal oil pressure readings that is a sure sign of internal wear and you may want to retire that engine...

This will make you cry. I bought a 1998 996 C2 with 145,000km on the clock. I bought it privately so no warranty. I had a Porsche mechanic spend two days checking it out and got a clean bill of health. Two weeks later the head cracked, flooding the cooling system with water and turning the oil to greasy milkshake. The engine needed a complete, top-to-bottom rebuild costing $20k.

GET A FARKING WARRANTY! End of story.

Cheers

David H

that really sucks... why didn't you just buy a new one from Porsche with a 2 year warranty? it would have been a lot cheaper no?

no worries :D

your IMS should be fine if its a 2006 or beyond... the IMS design is still not the best engineering but the 997S has the best implementation of it...

It's an '05, and an early one at that, with a double-race IMS bearing, so I can't even replace it without tearing down the motor. I'll be using the slightly heavier weight 5W-40 Mobil 1 next oil/filter change, which will now be at 5K mi/6 mo intervals. When my clutch needs replacing, I'll see about removing the bearing cover as recommended by LN Engr. If it breaks, I have an extended 3-yr warranty, and maybe I can get a new spec motor from PCNA. In the mean time, I'm having a ball driving the thing, because the last car I had was a 118 bhp M-B W123 Diesel. I'm like a kid in a candy store!

Oh, and I chose the wrong word in describing the S2000; I meant to say "kinda bland". That's a long way from "ugly".

extended warranty! your safe :D

well... hate to say it cause I love porsches but the S2000 is more reliable than your "S"... and at 1/3 rd the price its the bargain of the century... AND its a convertible.... ugly? depends on who you ask... but when you drive something with 355 hp its hard to appreciate a mere 240 hp...

No doubt you're right, but I think I'm ready to accept a little pain for all that stimulation. See me if/when my IMS bearing lets go. Still friends? Cheers.

no worries :D

your IMS should be fine if its a 2006 or beyond... the IMS design is still not the best engineering but the 997S has the best implementation of it...

Yeah, the S2000 is no doubt a highly respectable and reliable machine, but it's kinda ugly and soulless too. And 240 bhp ain't 355. The 3.8 M96's bellow reminds me of a '55 300SL's. Nope, sorry: we're talking apples and oranges here. And don't even mention the baubles from Modena and Maranello; they're not in the same league either. My little green monster is my daily driver and grocery-shopping car as well.

well... hate to say it cause I love porsches but the S2000 is more reliable than your "S"... and at 1/3 rd the price its the bargain of the century... AND its a convertible.... ugly? depends on who you ask... but when you drive something with 355 hp its hard to appreciate a mere 240 hp...

for what your paying ... M96 engines suck... 3.4 and 3.6... that's why they had to do a complete re-design for 2009 ..

HUGE FAILURE FOR PORSCHE

especially when Honda s2000 is bulletproof... S54 engines fall into the same category as M96 engines... lots of issues with them as well.. especially if your tracking...

the S2000 has got to be the most reliable bang for the buck out there for weekend trackers not looking to buy new engines cause the engineers where sleeping when designing the original... !!!

Sorry, completely sarcastic comment about recalls. I did not mean to raise false hope.

Silly me for biting.

The M96 is after all, a high stress motor extracting lotsa bhp for its displacement, and the one in mine make's it a blast (hopefully not literally) to drive, so I can't be too hard on Porsche AG.

My Honda F20C that's a 2.0 liter pumping out 240hp (120hp/liter) with a ~9K redline is "high stress" and has proven to be supremely reliable since the very beginning for many users. There is little to no talk about "remanufactured" engines or an engine swap program at Honda. Same goes for my other ex-car the S54 pumping out well over 100hp/liter.

Porsche gets poor grades with the M96. It's a sweet, sweet engine when it works, but I would never recommend to anyone to buy a 3.4 original factory motor 996 MK1. I'd say don't do it unless you're ready to cash out $15K and not feel like you got bent over. $15K buys you some very nice vacations wherever in the world for two people. Spend it on a replacement engine where the original should've always worked just fine for many, many miles of pleasure in the first place or take a nice 2 week Hawaii getaway in Lanai with your loved one in the Dolphin suite overlooking Manele Bay? The 3.4 engine is unreliable and has a good chance of self-destructing on you at any given moment. The 3.6 less so, but even then I'd still insist on a reman motor 911 that was replaced under factory warranty. There are enough out there to pick from.

I was just at my indy shop today. Not a big shop. Two M96 911s getting engine transplants. ***** poor form, Porsche.

IMO, if there is still a warranty left on the factory reman engine, I'd head to the dealer where it was installed and start that discovery process. If not, the sky is the limit.

agreed...

I would head to the dealer regardless.... IMO Porsche should give more than a 2 year warranty to customers who bought a re-man engine because of the shabby history of the 996 motor.

Joost,

will you be attending the TWS event March 13-14-15? I'll be there with 15+ BoxsterSpec cars and would like to see the filter if at all possible.

but what then is he supposed to do with that info?

Stop tracking the car and yank the engine. If he grenades it, and the block becomes damaged, he is in for a world of hurt to the wallet. With just bearing damage right now (potentially) he can get away with a "freshen" for around 4k or so and update his IMS and pick up some HP/TQ at the same time with a good valve job. When you damage a cylinder, is when things get costly :(

B

Brad's right.... I damaged my cylinder #6 via oil starvation at a tracking event and the bearings on both the connecting rod and crank are gone... replacing the block , bearings and crank is big bucks... at my stage of the game its not worth rebuilding... but you may be able to save your motor.

metal shavings is a very very bad sign... means your bearings are breaking down... tracking the car is hard on these parts... if I were you I would drop the oil pan and I bet if you are seeing metal shavings in the oil filter your oil pan will be probably see so many metal shavings it will make your mouth drop...

do you still have warranty on the factory reman engine? if not... time to get rid of your car while its still running.

Does anyone know if the PSE gets louder as more miles are build up on the system or does it get less loud. I have the PSE on my Targa and have checked that it is the correct one for the 02's and up model years and it seems to be not as loud under full throttle as when it was new some 60k miles ago. Anyone else feel their PSE has became less loud as more miles have been driven? Are there any headers out there that would make it louder while keeping the PSE exhaust note?

I think mine deepened a little after it was broken in - but htat was only about 500 miles.

definitely gets louder.... and is louder in warm weather vs the cold.... wait until you break it in a little... !!

I have heard in May 08 that all regular M96 engines are replaced by MA engines, but it was still in 08, times are different now. I check it out when i visit the after sales dept. next spring.

no M96 engines are 996 engines.. M97 engines are 997 motors and they still have the "shaft"... (although built better... but still with the same possible failure points)

Thank you everyone for the feedback here. I'm in the market for a 99-00 996 (my first 9 series), and was almost deterred from

buying because of the nighmare stories. The last thing any of us wants is an unreliable vehicle, no matter what the make.

I spoke directly with a very respected independent shop here in Seattle, as I'm planning to have the car I purchase inspected there.

Mark, the service manager said here are the things he has experienced over the years. This shop only works on Porsche's btw.

Clutch- Count on a replacement by 50K miles.

Ignition swith- Make sure car has 2 keys and both work. Common for switch to go out and key can be removed and car will still run.

Coolant tank leak issues.

RMS issues, not especially common, but something to look out for (he said it was a $1000 fix.)

Driver side elec. seats, make sure in good working order, see's issues with them from time to time.

If it has the cassette player, very pricey to swap to CD.

Other than that, he had high praise for the car and engine. He said he see's them as reliable daily drivers, and if properly maintained have shown to be low maintenance cars.

You might argue that he has something at stake here, but others I have spoken with said he is a very straight shooter, so take it for whatever it's worth.

HMMMM

I think your mechanic missed the most important tests:

1. leakdown test

2. compression test

if *any* variance here... especially in leakdown test... walk away from it.

I have run out of patience with this engine chase. I'm buying a new 3.6 from Porsche for $8500 and be done with it. At least I get a warranty and I know where the engine came from. Will install on the 19th and will have the most expensive 2000 C2 on the block :(

Thanks for all of your input. :cheers:

Phillip

Hi Phillip,

is $8,500 including your 3.4 core being returned to Porsche...?

I think your making the right move here... brand new motor... you don't want anybody's else's problems... cause you never really know what the "other" used motor had done to it... new with warranty is best... and the 3.6 will make your car really move!

Stock motors are built for longevity. Anytime you tweak the engine by stroking it, adding higher compression, etc., you increase the wear and reduce the reliability -- although it may not be enough to make a difference. But my guess for long-term reliability, you'd want to go stock. You'd also have an extra $2k in your pocket for repairs.

However, the X51 may be a lot more fun to drive and increase the wow and resale factor of your car. Seems like you'd be getting the benefits at a fraction of the cost.

I could argue this either way. Especially since car parts are kind of a crapshoot to start with. Pull two motors off the assembly line. One may run 200,000 miles. One may have some sort of catastrophic failure at 30,000. Who knows?

you would definitely have more power with the X-51 on the track... where high rpm driving is what wins.... 5000 RPM and beyond that is.... but if your not tracking it makes no sense at all to buy that engine...

I've also heard a lot of x-51 motors breaking... don't know why but they do. probably cause of more stress on the motor becaue of all the performance parts...?

My engine replacement drama for my 2000 C2 continues. As I have posted here before I'm doing a conversion from a 3.4 to a 3.6

I purchased a 2004 3.6 from a dismantler back east on the 9th of December. After many phone calls in the last weeks wondering where the hell my engine was.... :huh: Well it seems the trucking company lost it!!! :unsure: :angry: . Oh My.......

I cancelled the purchase and have gone on a search for another engine. I found an X-51 3.6 (locally in L.A.) with 20k miles for $9k. I have another lead on a standard low mile 3.6 which will probably be around $7k.

Question is.... Is the X-51 a significanly better engine than the base 3.6? (I'm well aware of the HP difference) Are the pistons and sleeves different? Is it more bullet-proof than the base 3.6?

Should spend the extra $ and go with the X-51 knowing that it will be more relaible in the long run than the base 3.6? I'm going to keep the car long term.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Phillipj

Hi Phillip,

I don't think the X51 will be more reliable than the 3.6... your pushing more HP out of the same block so there is more stress everywhere... if anything the standard 3.6 is a better long term motor in my opinion.

I have a 1999 Carrera Coupe 6 spd.. Its the second time my crank has failed the first time we were able to replace the bearings. This time it was actually cheaper to just replace the engine. I got a good deal on a 2000 engine. My question is is this a straight swap? I noticed the Throttle Body is drive by wire on 2000 Mine is cable. Do i just replace that part with my old one? Computer updates? Anything else I should know when going from a 1999 to a 2000 engine? The 2000 engine is a complete engine with all accessories. Thanks in advance.

curious... what where the symptoms of a failed crank and "bearing failure"... did you hear a tapping noise as the bearings wore out? I have a tapping noise and we think it is bearing failure as well... would like to compare notes with you...

i have a 993C2 and i feel the 996C2 sways more in the front. is it the characteristic of 996? or the 996 needs better wheel alignment or perhaps better shock-absorber? both cars are in factory specs.

thank you

yes... your right..

to get the 996 to a good feel I suggest doing the ROW 030 upgrade... car will feel "planted" .... alignment DEFINITELY NEEDED as well... makes all the difference in the world...

Hi all,

I have a '02 996 C2 with the OEM 18 in. wheels & Michellin Pilot Sport 225/40ZR-18 f & 285/30zr-18 r Tires. I upgraded to H&R springs and Bilstein HD, that made my car more stable & w/. good lower stance. Also I ordered a front lip spoiler to provide more stability to my car with speed. I'm planing to participate in X and DE events, but at the same time I want a set up that I could drive on the street. Some questions came to me:

-Could I combine my H&R springs with the M030 stabilizer bars?

-What could happen if I use only in the back the M030 bar, in order to reduce understeer?

-Do you know, where I can purchase those bars?

-What type of alignment and tire pressure do you recommend for best handling?

Best regards,

JM :drive:

Jim,

the back bar alone would be fine... I upgraded to ROW 030 and the back sway bar is larger... the front from the ROW 030 is the same as stock... but my car is a 99 so you would have to measure... .

talk to Steven Russel @ Suncoast porsche and he can help you out with parts....