Sunnyside

Thank you again for your reply!! My indy has durametic and I am going to share my codes and pics of the aft fluid n the pan once they are taken off. Does changing the oil pump casing require stripping down the gearbox or can it be done without extensive labor?

Appreciated for your post 

I am afraid to say its a box out and full strip down job. Also at that point your clutch packs should also be changed out as well.

I suppose it would cost you over states side in the region of $2000 to simply overhaul. The pump its self is about $300. I'm sure theres some one over with you that can do the same ore even uprate the clutch packs for you.

It will be interesting to read some of the codes.

Changing out the fluid and filter is quite easy, the fluid is a dark crimson reddish new, but if the oil has got too hot caused by continuous hard high power driving or also by slipping clutch packs the oil turns very dull golden to brown and can smell odd , sort of a sintered smell. once ATF is overheated it never recovers even if just heated for a short period. Excessively overheated Tip fluid can destroy a box in a matter of a few hundred miles!!

How do I make sure my local indi specialist will scan thereadings of TCU and DME?

Thks

James

If he uses Porsche System Tester PST2, PIWIS , Durametric or Autologic testing equipment he will be able to read out all the DME and TCU fault codes.

A simple hand held code reader IMO will not be sufficient. If your Indy does not have the correct test equipment then he is not a suitable indy to take your car to in the first place. These cars produce codes faster than Greece prints money. You need an Indy that's can read, data log and down load codes. All of them!

if you want a full description of what the codes are post them up and I will copy the relevant pages form the Workshop Manual.

Ps you want one of these: http://www.durametric.com/default.aspx

Considering you have what was once a $150,000 car the extra cost of a Durametric is well worth the investment.

Ps PS I should have said with the type 2 as I describe it, the slippage when you change gear ( like a manual clutch slipping and associated increase in engine speed) only happened on mine under load, you could drive the car about normally and never know there was a problem. I believe it has to do with there being enough oil pressure to stop slippage under low torque but once the torque increases the oil pressure is insufficient. My Tip had a Hairline crack in the pump housing ( common by all accounts). I now have an MKB uprated Tip and TCU.

I just checked with my tune. Torque should be under 550 ft lbs. I also read that the 1st and 2nd gear clutch are together in one pack and while 3rd is the weakest link due to it being in one pack on its own. When you say it is going to slip in 3rd, do you mean I should find slip in 3rd while accelerating or trying to shift from 3rd to 4th? The problem is that I am getting slip while i was in 2nd trying to accelerate. It simply slipped before speed was built up in 2nd gear. I got the only slip in my 1st attempt in hitting any boost that night. What logical guess can you think of?

Thank you very much for your help!!

James

Hi James there are 2 or 3 common types of slip, probably more but the most common types are :

1 Slippage from having too much torque, normally felt when accelerating in 3rd ( for reasons already stated) . This slippage is normally in the mid engine rev range when the car is under max Torque.

2. Slippage in 3rd due to reduced oil pressure, can be caused by a number of things but commonly a damaged oil pump ( cracked housing) will reduce the clutch clamping pressure enough for the Torque pull on 3rd again to make the packs slip. This would also show as an increase in engine speed when you actually change gear. Just as if a manual car had a slipping clutch. As the clutch pack eventually bites, the slippage stops and all is well untill you do another gear change. Eventually, though, this will wear out the clutch packs.

3. Low oil in box, blocked oil pick up and or filter or severely damaged pump . This can cause slippage in any gear.

Of course damage or blockage to any individual solenoid actuator valves will also cause the associated clutch pack to either not engage at all, be slow to engage.

There are a number of speed sensors in the box, N1, N2........ etc These measure the speed relationship between different parts of the gear shafts.If it senses that a shaft that is split with a gear on it is not turning at the same speed ( ie a differential speed) it will log a fault code. If they sense excessive speed difference (large slippage) that is likely to cause damage it will put the box into Emergency Run mode, also the DME will be told to reduce throttle angle and hence reduce the available power and help protect the box further.

This is why you WILL have code logged in the TCU and also the DME

These boxes are incredibly complicated and it could be a multitude of reasons why you slip in 2nd. it could be the solenoid valve blocked? Again codes will help point you in the right direction.

post the codes an i will past the description of the fault for you.

Frank

I should have mentioned that my car is running UMZ tune, DV and 200 cell RPI exhaust at around 500 bhp. How should I check if the problem is fixed or not after reading the code and atf and filter change without risking the gearbox?

A big thank you for your post again!!

James

James, you will just have to run the car and see. If its going to slip 3rd gear clutch packs will go first as they are the smallest in diameter and the least amount of them in the box. 500 bhp is not enough to upset the clutch packs. Over 550 will start to give problems. It is in fact Torque that kills the clutch packs so its the torque figure that really counts . Above 550 bhp and over 550 ft lbs torque will start to wear the packs and cause slippage.

Hi Frank,

The garage didn't pop a gauge on for the testing but said it would be the next step. I suppose I need a more turbo fluent garage than this independent. They did change the actuators so that's another thing off the list.

I don't have a durametric but might look to purchase one.

I have read that the 0.4bar is significant for the limp mode. But how do I get out of that? Is a durametric the only way? The battery reset did not work.

Battery reset normally fails when there is a hard fault causing limp mode to be continuous . The other reason for the apparent not resetting after battery disconnection is of course that the DME isn't in limp mode to start with. you might have a big boost leak, so no matter how much resetting you do will never resolve the problem.

1st port of call should be codes followed by a boost leak test.

Hope you get the problem resolved, I look forward reading about your results .

:thumbup:

Hi Sunnyside,

I really hope it is just a sign of low oil and you are being very logical with the codes that will show up as cross referenced. I am going to let the local indi specialist to scan the codes and change the ATF and filter next Tuesday. Frankly, it only slipped once before I drove the car 5 miles home and parked it there ever since. Would my clutch parks have slipped excessively and caused some damage already?

Can the Durametric read Tip's ATF temperature during the AFT & filter change? Also, my local indy is suggesting to use Mercedes Benz ATF and filter. Is that a bad idea? What is the best ATF for my 2000 996 TT Tip?

Thanks a lot for your post!

James

Hi Sunnyside,

I really hope it is just a sign of low oil and you are being very logical with the codes that will show up as cross referenced. I am going to let the local indi specialist to scan the codes and change the ATF and filter next Tuesday. Frankly, it only slipped once before I drove the car 5 miles home and parked it there ever since. Would my clutch parks have slipped excessively and caused some damage already?

Can the Durametric read Tip's ATF temperature during the AFT & filter change? Also, my local indy is suggesting to use Mercedes Benz ATF and filter. Is that a bad idea? What is the best ATF for my 2000 996 TT Tip?

Thanks a lot for your post!

James

I know PST2 can read tip temp and I'm 99% sure durametrics can as well. The tip box is made by mercedes, so as long as its the same item, be it under a different name I'm sure the filter will not only be megga cheaper but will be fine.

I use the OEM ATF for my tip , but again, if Mercedes have the same stuff under a different name it will do. BUT. Make sure its to all the exact specifications.

As to the clutch packs, most likely you will not have done any major damage so long as that's all it did ie Just one slip.

However, if you find that there is plenty of fluid in the box (by which I mean the correct level , no more and no less) then there is a good chance that the slippage is caused by the ATF pump in side the box. They can develop a crack in the pump housing which inevitably means reduced oil pressure and clutch pack slippage. That's a big repair but lets not worry about that at this stage.

I can only take it form your post that your car has no power mods because after about 550 bhp the clutch pack can slip anyway??

Hi,

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 2000 996TT Tip with 38000 miles on the clock and it has been dripping a few drops on the floor every month. Due to the minor leakage, I left it untouched and strangely, it stopped completely since 3 months ago. And I was running her fine with zero problem until a few days ago.

On top of the leakage, my maf is also on its way out. I have cleaned it a couple of times and it had always helped but the slow throttle response and abs & psm light still come on once every 2-3 months.

So, now, let me describe the problem with my Tip box. As I was giving it the full beans in 2nd gear last Sunday, it failed to shift from 2nd to 3rd and slippage was felt because the boost and the power was there. The power just wasnt transferred to the wheels. The 4th gear light and the d light were flashing right after that and the warning Tiptronic Emergency Run was shown on the dash. I drove it home gently, just a 3 miles drive and weirdly it drove like it had zero problem and it went through each gear just as healthily and smoothly as before. Except on one hill start moment, the power again felt like it wasnt being transferred to the wheels as well as before. And, I have not driven the car since then.

Having downloaded and read the procedures of the aft and filter change in the Porsche Workshop Manual online, I am suspecting it could just be a lack of aft fluid and a plugged filter causing the slip while the maf causing the Tip Emergency Run light.

What do you boys think? I would appreciate it if you could share your advice.

James

Hi James ,

If your getting warning Tiptronic Emergency Run , its because you have a problem with the tip box. Sounds like low oil but you will have to have it checked out. You must have the fault codes read out and by the sounds of it there will be quite a few. Some will cross ref with each other as one fault can cause another which will also be recorded. for eg, low fluid level will give a low pressure code, but low pressure will also cause slippage of the clutches which will give their own codes.

PST2 or Durametric can read out all the codes.you must get it checked. If the clutch packs have slipped excessively they will be damaged. and your into repair territory.

A few things that worry me are;

Why hasn't the workshop put an external boost gauge on the car and taken the car for a test drive to prove boost is correct or not.

&

0.4 bar of boost is a significant figure. That's what the boost would be if the DME goes into limp mode and pulls boost.

If your workshop come back and tell you boost is low on an external boost gauge, I would want a boost leak test doing.

what does Durametric say your boost is?

Frank.

Jim,

I think what you have done by left foot braking and using the throttle is use up the vacuum reserve, so the brakes were no longer servo assisted for those few seconds. That's what it sounds like anyway.

You have already answered your own question : So it seems like a good and very fair deal...

IMO 127K is nothing for one of these cars. every one gets het up about mileage. I would prefer 127k long distance miles than 50k of hard thrashing, You already said you know the owner very well , what more do you want ? Some one else to buy it before you get the chance?

IMHO you already know what to do.

Good luck with your new Turbo and look forward to your review about it on here .

Frank :thumbup:

I have had the exact same problem, the arm that pushes against the micro switch came away. You will have to dismantle the glove box. As Loren says, a pain to do but a lot less of a pain in the wallet than taking it to an OPC.

Do more searching because I've read of that same problem several times. Not sure what year or model Porsche but on some their is an electronic component under the front bumper passenger side that after washing their Porsche their electronics went wild. Good Luck, Robert.

Anymore info on this, I haven't heard of a problem like that but it would sure be handy to know about for future reference.

Thanks,

Frank

I don't think I've ever gotten the vehicle wet inside and since it's a US car, hopefully its not the issue with the control unit. But that doesn't mean it's going to be any less perplexing! The battery is almost brand new and contacts looks just fine. however, I did notice that the wires and harnesses are soaked around it. Strange. I don't know what I did to get that much water in there. At any rate, I am starting to think for certain it is a short, because now the dash and climate control panels are flashing after leaving the car on.

Your own admission is that you have washed it so you did get it wet. Start with what you have done and work backwards. If a door or roof seal is leaking then it stands to reason you will have got water in the car. The lowest sup in the car is where the Alarm/cl modules sits. It controls not only the alarm, but immobiliser and also all your power up functions. ie sleep shut down modes. Fry that unit and you end up with masses of seemingly unrelated problems. A US car will still have the unit but it may well be under the drivers seat. Just saying on uK cars its under the passengers.

Additional info. Now, when left in the ON position, I am getting airbag and rollover protection failure warnings. Also, I can't close the top now. It opened the roof cover faring about 2 cm, then just stopped.

thanks again for any help.

A couple of things I would be thinking about at first glance is:

1: How good is the battery and or battery contacts?whats our battery voltage?

2: Have you flooded under the passenger seat. UK car. That's where the Alarm/central locking unit is housed. A very common problem is water getting past seals and flooding the lowest part of the floor, which incidentally is where Porsche in their wisdom fitted the unit.

3: Try and get some one with a Durametric diagnostic computer to read the fault codes. By the sounds of it your going to have a few.

Best of luck.

Frank

another silly question:does a turbo ever read a vacuum in the intake?

The gauge in the car does not read vacuum however the engine does pull a vacuum in the plenum.

After working with Durametric, I now have a boost gauge. I highly recommend Durametric, they stuck with the problem until they found a solution.

Joel

Excellent news, but come on, you know the Renntech score tell us all what was the problem and how did you fix it.

hi, i can't seem to find a cross reference to the shell product, being in germany seems to present unique challenges for me and my german car...not being fluent in german, i am constantly second guessing myself as to what i am being told and am frustrated at the lack of transparency i feel from the 'locals'...anyway, enough about me,,, what are my options ,or, what are my cars options for trans fluid, can someone give me product #'s for the tip in the tt, i understand it is different from the n/a car's tips, thanks in advance, kk

You know, I had this problem as well when I changed out my tip oil and filter. I decided that the chances of ever having to do another fluid change was so small that i would just use the Porsche recommended fluid. Its expensive but it lasts for tens and tens of thousand miles. I didn't want to take the chance and have the OPC send the oil away just to find it was the incorrect grade. At the time I had a warranty. But still its just worth it IMO.

Frank

Well done Ronny, great blog. I would love to run a diary about all the work done to my car, just would know how to do it :thankyou:

Very nice car and sounds like you have some excellent mods done already.

Enjoy and keep us all updated as you get to drive the car some more.

:thumbup:

subscribed to thread.

How many of you find it a bit annoying when member posts about a fault and asks for help, you get interested and look forward to reading about the outcome and the OP doesn't bother to post back :(

I love to engage with an OP in the hope of getting as much experience with the faults these cars can have. Who else has the same thoughts.

Sorry about the :soapbox:

Frank

sorry, theres loads of information there from the workshop manual. Its assumed in the manual that your using PST2 but durametrics will do the same job.

(The information is from my 996tt workshop manual CD and is pasted in order as it was on the page. the information is in table format on the computer but is printed as a list so you have to follow the steps carefully)

Hope this helps and I will be following the outcome so please keep us all updated. As i said earlier the alarm system is so complicated its a bad point with the car IMO.

With that many faults, i would check the Alarm/cl module has not got wet. If the door seals or the seals inside the door cards are poor the water collects in the lowest point in the car, which just happens to be where Porsche fits the Alarm / Cl module. :rolleyes:

Frank :)

96-63 Fault code 61

Central locking limit position - unlocked not reached

Diagnostic conditions

• Control of central locking system in the direction of "unlocked"

Possible cause of fault

♦ Wrong country coding

♦ Short circuit to ground/open circuit in the wiring between the

alarm system control module, central locking switch or door

locks

♦ Door lock (driver/passenger) faulty

♦ Control module faulty

Affected terminals

Plug A, terminals 5, 28, 29, 30, 32

Plug B, terminal 3

During troubleshooting, the micro switches of the door locks are

tested in Step 4. The test is to be used only for vehicles with "safe

position". USA vehicles do not have a "safe" position; "Driver’s door

secured" and "Passenger’s door secured" are therefore displayed

during the "Input signals" test.

Diagnosis/troubleshooting

Note!

Work instruction Display OK If not OK

1 Check coding ♦ In menu item "Country coding",

check whether the alarm system

control module is correctly

coded for the place of

use

⇒ Step 2 Recode the alarm

system control

module (country

coding)

→ Ende

2 Check central locking

switch

♦ In the menu item "Input signals",

select "Central locking

system button"

♦ Actuate central locking system

switch and check the statuses

on the screen

⇒ Step 3 ⇒ Step 5

96-63 page 2 9601 Fault code 61

61xxxi48

96

3 Check leads between the

alarm system control

module and the door

locks for short circuit to

ground

♦ Pull plugs A and B off the

alarm system control module

♦ Pull plug off both door locks

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on alarm system control

module pin 5 and ground

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on alarm system control

module pin 28 and ground

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on alarm system control

module pin 30 and ground

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on alarm system control

module pin 32 and ground

♦ Measure resistance between

plug B on alarm system control

module pin 3 and ground

∞ Ω

⇒ Step 4

Repair wiring harness

→ End

4 Check leads between the

alarm system control

module and the door

locks for open circuit

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on alarm system control

module pin 5 and pin 7 on

plug of door lock on driver’s

side

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on alarm system control

module pin 28 and pin 7

on plug of door lock on passenger’s

side

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on alarm system control

module pin 30 and pin 3

on plug of door lock on

driver’s side

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on alarm system control

module pin 32 and pin 3

on plug of door lock on passenger’s

side

♦ Measure resistance between

plug B on alarm system control

module pin 3 and pin 2 on

plug of the driver’s side and

passenger’s side door locks

♦ Measure resistance between

plug B on alarm system control

module pin 9 and ground

< 5 Ω

⇒ Step 5

Repair wiring harness

→ End

5 Check micro switches of

the two door locks (possible

detection of faulty

driver’s/passenger’s

door lock)

♦ Push plugs A and B back onto

the alarm system control module

♦ Reconnect plugs to both door

locks

♦ Close doors

♦ Vehicle not secured and not

locked

♦ Select "Driver’s side locked",

"Passenger’s side locked"

"Driver’s side secured" and

"Passenger’s side secured" in

menu item "Input signals".

Driver’s side not

locked

Passenger’s side

not locked

Driver’s side not

secured (not applicable

to USA vehicles)

Passenger’s side

not secured (not

applicable to USA

vehicles)

⇒ Step 12

⇒ Step 11

6 Check central locking

switch

♦ Remove central locking switch

and pull plug off the switch

♦ Measure resistance between

pins 4 and 1 on the central

locking switch

Central locking

switch actuated in

"open" direction

< 5 Ω

Central locking

switch not actuated

in "close" direction

∞ Ω

⇒ Step 6

7 Check central locking

switch

♦ Measure resistance between

pins 4 and 2 on the central

locking switch

Central locking

switch actuated in

"open" direction

< 5 Ω

Central locking

switch not actuated

in "open" direction

∞ Ω

⇒ Step 7

8 Check the wire from the

central locking switch to

the control module for

short circuit to ground

♦ Pull plug off central locking

switch

♦ Pull plug A off the alarm system

control module

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on control module pin

29 and ground

∞ Ω

⇒ Step 8

9 Check the wire from the

central locking switch to

the control module for

open circuit

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on control module pin

29 and plug on switch for central

locking pin 1

10 Check the wire from the

central locking switch to

the control module for

open circuit

♦ Measure resistance between

pins 1 and 2 of plug for central

locking switch

approx. 180 Ω at

20 °C

⇒ Step 10

11 Check wire from fuse C

3 to central locking

switch

♦ Switch on ignition

♦ Measure voltage between plug

on the central locking switch

pin 4 and ground

> 11 V

⇒ Step 12

Check fuse C 3 or

repair wiring harness

→ End

12 ♦ Depending on the test result of the input signals test in

step 4, replace the driver’s/passenger’s door lock

→ End

13 ♦ Replace alarm system control module → End

96-51 Fault code 46

Central locking synchronisation

Diagnostic conditions

• Central locking system controlled in "safe" or "locked" position

Possible cause of fault

♦ Short circuit to ground/open circuit between alarm system control

module and door locks

♦ Door lock faulty

Affected terminals

Plug A, terminals 5, 19, 28, 30, 32

Plug B, terminal 9

During troubleshooting, the micro switches of the door locks are

tested in Step 1. The test is to be used only for vehicles with "safe

position". USA vehicles do not have a "safe" position; "Driver’s door

secured" and "Passenger’s door secured" are therefore displayed

during the "Input signals" test.

Diagnosis/troubleshooting

Work instruction Display OK If not OK

1 Check micro switches of

both door locks

♦ Connect PST 2 and switch on

ignition.

♦ Close doors

♦ Do not lock or secure the vehicle

♦ Select the following switch positions

in the "Input signals" menu

♦ Driver’s side secured

♦ Passenger’s side secured

♦ Driver’s side locked

♦ Passenger’s side locked

Driver’s side not

secured (not USA)

Passenger’s side not

secured (not USA)

Driver’s side not

locked

Passenger’s side not

locked

⇒ Step 4

⇒ Step 2

2 Check wiring from control

module to door lock

for short circuit to ground

♦ Pull plugs A and B off the control

module

♦ Pull plug off the door lock with

the incorrect switch positions

from step 1

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on control module pin 5

and ground (if on driver’s side)

or pin 28 on the control module

and ground (if on passenger’s

side)

∞ Ω

⇒ Step 3

Repair wiring harness

→ End

3 Check wiring from control

module to door lock

for open circuit

♦ Pull plug off the door lock with

the incorrect switch positions

from step 1

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on control module pin 5

and plug on door lock pin 7 (if

on driver’s side) or pin 28 on the

control module and pin 7 on the

door lock (if on passenger’s

side)

< 5 Ω

⇒ Step 6

Repair wiring harness

→ End

4 Check leads from the

alarm system control

module to the servomotors

for short circuit to

ground

♦ Pull plugs off both door locks

♦ Pull plugs A and B off the alarm

system control module

♦ Measure resistance between

plug B on control module pin 9

and ground

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on control module pin 19

and ground

∞ Ω

⇒ Step 5

Repair wiring harness

→ End

9601 Fault code 46 96-51 page 3

Alarm system I 48

46xxxi48

96

Printed in Germany – 4, 2001

5 Check leads from the

alarm system control

module to the servomotors

for open circuit

♦ Pull plugs off both door locks

♦ Pull plugs A and B off the alarm

system control module

♦ Measure resistance between

plug B on control module pin 9

and pin 2 on plugs of the right

and left door locks

♦ Measure resistance between

plug A on control module pin 19

and pin 9 on plugs of the right

and left door locks

< 5 Ω

⇒ Step 7

Repair wiring harness

→ End

6 ♦ Replace right or left door lock → End

7 ♦ Replace control module → End

96-39 Fault code 33

Passenger compartment monitoring sensor faulty

Diagnostic conditions

• Alarm system activated

Possible cause of fault

♦ Passenger compartment monitoring faulty

Affected terminals

-

Diagnosis/troubleshooting

Work instruction Display OK If not OK

1 ♦ Replace passenger compartment monitoring sensor → End