Mera

I had something similar last year. My 2006 C2 was starting up at 3 and dropping to 1 once warm. Turned out one of the scavenge pumps was seized and then the banmk 1 timing chain broke and the engine needed a rebuild. Now the car starts up at 5 and drops to 3 once warm. Of course it might not be anything as serious for you, it might just be the gauge or pressure sender unit ...... eerily mine was at 52k miles when it happened

Hi Knud, Sorry to hear your story. I am in the UK and had to have an engine rebuild on my 2006 C2. Which year is your car? I hear new engines for Porsches in Scandanavia are very expensive, so much that one was shipped to Autofarm here near where I live to be rebuilt. Sam

I'd definately echo the previous comments, always get a warranty on these cars as there is more than one way they can go bad. For me the warranty is essential because Porsche GB did not contribute a single penny to my rebuild and offered no discounts even though it was only 4 years old and had a full OPC service history, right down to wiper blades and light bulbs. My M97 failed due to a broken cam chain in part probably caused by a chain roller clogging and then seizing one of the oil scavenge pumps. You can read all about it here: http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?/topic/33600-porsche-engine-problem/ When my engine was taken apart (2006, C2, 52k miles) there was clear evidence the IMS drive sprocket had wear on it. There were light burrs and flakes of swarf. The OPC insisted the whole IMS was replaced, which it was. I think we will see more cases of IMS failure (bearing/sprocket, whatever) in M97's as the mileages increase. I'm just highlighting my experience so you can make up your own mind. Since the rebuild, my car has performed really well, 2k miles on, it is just going in for its first post rebuild oil change.

Seattle911, I'm sorry to hear about your case. From what the Porsche tech told me, once the IMS actually fails totally, rebuild is not an option because the crank case gets damaged, often seriously. We don't have a CPO exact equivalent here in the UK, the closest being a Porsche Approved warranty which kind of "extends" the 2 year manufacturers warranty we get here. I don't want this to become an engine failure post trail, there's plenty on the internet about that but I'd love to know how many Boxter, Cayman and 996/997 engines have been rebuilt or replaced - it is much more than we think but it is all speculation. My engine had a broken chain and a seized scavenge pump and no internal debris (I inspected myself). The pistons were untouched and the IMS ok apart from a few very light burrs on the drive sprocket. The valves looked ok but you could not be sure. In my case I had to go for the rebuild option because the payment was not coming from me. Total was $12k and that included stripping the old engine down and diagnosing, buying the chains, scavenge pump, exhaust valves and IMS and then rebuilding the engine and reinstalling it. I get a 2 yr warranty "on the work the dealer has conducted", whatever that means to them. I know what it means to me. New engine would have been marginally more expensive but was not an option for me. I also came to 'sort of' trust the tech who rebuilt the engine. He told me he had rebuilt hundreds for Porsche GB in the last 10 years and was very knowledgeable and gave me open invitation to visit him rebuilding which I took up. Having seen my engine internals, I come to 2 conclusions: Use your cars, they are built to be driven hard and change the oil at 5-7.5k intervals. Mine was due for a service (20k) and when I saw the oil, a tear came to my eye. Best Rgds Sam

Just a final update from me: Car came back 2 weeks ago after rebuild and runs really well. Here are my observations, 1. It idles much quieter than before but the idle causes the passenger seat to vibrate a little. I understand this can be normal behavoir but didn't do it previously. 2. The oil pressure is a huge change. once warm, even at 2200rpm, oil pressure is 4.5 and idles around 3 3. The response from the engine is much better than before. Previously the car was responsive but now it is awesome, very punchy and more free reving. 4. Now I notice a whirr between 2k and 3k rpm which I am told is the classic Porsche sound. I drove down to the south of France and back and have covered 1200 miles and it has just got better and better. I kept it below 4000rpm until lately when I've not been able to resist and pushed it to 5000 in 4th and 5th. At 300 miles we took a look at the oil filter and changed it. Cutting it open just revealed very fine particles or fillings of metal and bits of gasket sealant. I am planning on changing oil at 2000 miles. While the engine was apart, I had the clutch, all coil packs and spark plugs changed as well. Well, it's been an experience, but it's at an end now. Many thanks to you all for you advice. Best Rgds Sam

Just a quick update and question: My car should be ready Saturday next week. I had to go the rebuild route (for one reason or another) but it is being done at the Prosche dealer by a very experienced technician, who was proud to tell me he had personally rebuilt hundreds of engines from 996's and 997's, Boxters and Cayman's. Replaced: all timing chains, oil scavenge pump, IMS, all bank 1 exhaust valves. Question 1: What is the standard engine rebuild time allocated by Porsche? Just want to make sure I'm not being ripped off here. Question 2, what do you recommend on running in procedure? When/how often does oil need changing over the running in period. Any advice/resources on this appreciated. Rgds S

:thankyou: to all of you for your help. It is the way the cookie crumbles and I am just dealing with the fallout (literally). In 22 years of car ownership, it is the only engine which has gone on me and it was the one I was least expecting to do it! If I had read all the internet chatter, I would have got the warranty long ago but in this case it is me underwriting it. The car remains awesome :-) I'll keep you all posted on what happens. Sam

PutPut6, thanks for such a great explanation. I am not a motor engineer/technician so my understanding is limited. Another motor engineer here in the UK has told me that the timing chains are not as good quality as they used to be and that he has seen complete disintegration of timing chains in 996 engines, but never in a newer 997. He thinks this was probably festering for a while with a timing chain which had a manufacturing weakness from the outset. I have a tough choice here. We get just 2 years warranty and mine is out of it. Porsche GB are completely unsympathetic to blown engines unless the consumer had paid $2250 /yr for an extended warranty. So my dealer is rubbing his hands with glee, pushing me to sign off on a $12k engine replacement with a remanufactured unit (on which the dealer and Porsche GB are going to profit) My engine still starts (and runs badly) on Bank 2 cylinders (4,5,6), has no external damage or oil leak. On that basis, do you think the internal damage will be limited to just the bank 1 chain and a few valves or do you think it will have taken the variocam and other major internals with it? Maybe you have seen an engine which starts but has bank 1 timing chain damage? Your honest opinion is most appreciated here. I need to make a decision on new engine vs rebuild. If the damage is likely to be substantial then the new engine is probably a better option, otherwise I'd prefer a rebuild minus any involvement from Porsche GB. Rgds S

Hi All, Just a quick update. I visited the Porsche Dealer today and they showed me first hand that the left hand bank (cyl 1,2,3) (left side as you look at the back of the car) set of cams were both not moving when cranked. This means the chain driving them has broken or come off. Possibly the variocam has seized? I am amazed that the car was doing just below 70mph and was around 3000 revs when it happened. No warning at all. Also amazing is that the car starts and idles rough on the other 3 cylinders. Question now is how much damage has been done by the chain and whether to get it rebuilt or more likely its time for a new engine. The garage said they had only ever seen this once before but in that case the cam had come thru the side of the engine. In my case, there is no external damage visible and no oil leaks. Interestingly, there were 2 other 997 engines being rebuilt today, one with scored cylinders and one with a broken cam and manual gearbox issues. Rgds S

Car was transported to the Porsche dealer. They have had a look at it and the diagnosis is not good Looks like the P0342 code was right and the cam on one side is not moving. The service rep said they took spark plugs out and turned the engine and could not see the cam moving. I am not sure they can do that, is it possible? Next action recommended is to take the engine out and strip it down to see if the chain which drives the cam has snapped, although he reckoned if it had, it may have terminally damaged the engine. Any advice appreciated or if you have seen this before, perhaps you can give me an idea on "what the possible outcomes are". The service rep also told me that they have seen at least 3 cases like this on 996/997 engines over the last 3 years he has been working for Porsche and it is likely Porsche will contribute to the work but until the exact cause is known, we won't know. Loren you said "I would still put a PIWIS tester on it - I think it is something other than that sensor. It really sounds odd with the other lights on and PSM in diagnostic mode etc". I wonder if you had this in mind? Rgds Sam PS. The service rep confirmed the car had not been abused by over revving etc, which I can honestly say it has not.

I really hope it is not IMS! If it is, it will be a total disaster. It does start but misfires horribly before cutting out. Dealer (without doing diagnostics) thinks it is probably one or more of the coils. It is due for a 4 year service so they will do that at the same time. Car was transported to the dealer today and they have promised to look at it Monday. Rgds S

Thanks to you all for a great response, I will update next week after the techs at Porsche have put it on the diagnostics machine and found the problem, Best Rgds Sam

OK, more investigation has been done and here is what I found: All the previous warnings I was getting and the PSM in "Diagnostic Mode" turned out to be because the battery was low (it had been on the highway with hazard lights flashing for 3 hours until recovery truck arrived .... we live in the UK ). Now I can start the car, it idles like a bad diesel and I think it is misfiring. No warning lights except a yellow engine management every now and again. Putting some pressure on the gas causes it to choke and stall. OBDCII shows 2 codes. The first is "N/A" the second is "P0342 Camshaft Position Sensor A- Bank 1 Circuit Low Input". Spoke to the Porsche Dealer and he said it is likely to be a coil and not the Camshaft sensor? Any ideas appreciated. Phillipj, many thanks for your warm support, looks like it might not be the IMS problem, perhaps I can thank my luck stars! Best Rgds Sam

I am taking your advice and getting transported. I am dreading that it is IMS failure, hopefully it is not that. Thank you for your help and I will feedback the end resolution to the problem, Rgds S

Loren, your help is very much appreciated. I have an update, I tried to start the car and it turned and started, idling very rough, like a diesel. It also showed "PSM in diagnostic mode". OBDII has only a single code: P0342 Camshaft Position Sensor A- Bank 1 Circuit Low Input Is it major work to get to and replace these sensors? Shall I get the Porsche Dealer to diagnostic check it too? Can I drive it to the dealer who is 4 miles from my home. Best Rgds S

Hi all, I need some help, I have a 2006 997 C2 with 52k on the clock. I live in the UK and the car has a full Porsche Service History. Yesterday evening, I took it for a spin and while on the highway/motorway at 70mph as I was accelerating slowly up hill, I heard a slight ticking noise from the engine and then the engine cut out. Literally it was 10 seconds before the engine cut out. The car had to be recovered and will not start. Airbag light shows, traction control light, brake lights, engine light and a red exclamation mark. Starter motor turns but it does not start (I have only tried once). There are no oil leaks, it is dry as anything underneath and the on board computer shows oil at the max allowed level. Any ideas? Rgds,