racerken

Hi Seahawkeye, Iowa has the best wrestlers on earth because they have to shovel their way just to leave the house. I have same situation with a detached garage.

As for driving it every day? That's what i've been doing since 2004 so don't worry. You'll be the only smiling guy on the road with 4 wheel slider.

Go to this thread to check out my pictures of corrosion:

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/44118-weekend-maintenance-35k-miles/#entry237588

I had to do a lot of grinding so if you're lucky you can replace the fasteners before they seize. The 12 exhaust manifold bolts remain seized and I also have 1 seized exhaust chrome tip bolt. Other than that, the car is very resistant to corrosion. As for cleaning, I just go to a powerwash place once a month and just gently rinse down from the engine compartment (you can see the blue oxidation the first time) and full power wash from below. Every summer, I crawl underneath (and wheel well) to wire brush all rusted fasteners and paint. These are mostly the ones that secure the plastic panels to the body, nothing major and it's because I'm OCD.

Mijostyn has the good life. One day after the kids our out of college, I'm getting a heated garage or rather a living room with a lift.

Hey Seahawkeye, How do you like your OZs?? I really think they are the absolute best value in high performance wheels. That finish is as tough as nails.

Racerken is absolutely right. These fat wheels collect all kinds of crap in the winter. Way more than enough to throw the wheels out of balance. Your teeth will rattle at 80 MPH. After a messy trip I power wash the wheels right in my garage just to blow all the crap away. With a power washer it does not take much water to do this.

You have a garage with working water? Our pipes are frozen!!!

PS. I agree undercarriage washing can only be good to reduce corrosion. I wonder if most of the damage is already done during driving when the parts are hot and might react and corrode more quickly? Google search for "steel salt corrosion temperature" brings up a bunch of data showing temperature does matter though not so obvious how much it matters. I guess the corrosion question is worthy of its own forum thread.

All of the exhaust related fasteners should be replaced at a minimum once every two years. The bolts that really corrode fast are the exhaust manifold bolts which in my case are toast so i'm going to wait until my engine overhaul to deal with them. If I had to do it over again, I'd replace the exhaust manifold bolts annually but do remember that if they snap, you're going to have to buy a template or drilling rig to remove without damaging the block. The rest of the fasteners: manifold to catalytic converter, cat to muffler are all pretty simple. I used Porsche fasteners but if replacing often i think anything will do.

I've been driving every day in this Polar Vortex and here in michigan we have had so much snow this season that school outages are going to force our kids to extend into summer. For the driver, it's all 4 wheel slide city! I've not had this much fun since high school but it is getting old. As for the salt, I don't see any other signs of corrosion. Note: Michigan is the largest producer of Salt and it's all over my car.

I'm glad you enjoy 'real' driving. Never allow your Porsche to sit in the garage.

Something to thank about the weather: Notice how quiet the car is when driving on snow? It's peaceful.

Enjoy your winter!

Ken

Hey API,

I've had 18" snow tire set (current set is Michelin PA2) for 8 years now... I'm traveling now so I can't run out to check the exact tire sizes but it was per Porsche recommendation. I drive the 997 C2 everyday in the Michigan snow (and free salt bath) which accumulates up to 4" when the roads are un-plowed. My street is usually the last street plowed so snow tires are a requirement to get to work. I don't drive on ice and usually the roads are closed when that happens. It's not you with the problem it's everyone else who will drive the posted speed limit then hit you when they lose control. Further the un-registered, un-licensed, un-insured motorist, in a white chevy van will keep driving away.

Here is my experience:

as Mijostyn mentioned, 18" are sloppy at high speeds and you will feel the difference the first hard/fast turn as you understeer/oversteer, on the otherhand, it's good driver training because you learn what the car can do at low speeds. With summer tires, if you push the tires to the limit it's usually at high speeds and you most likely will risk damage. It cuts thru snow but remember if the snow is too deep or you make hard turns too fast you'll just plow snow. If too deep you'll sit on the snow.

if you practice your 4 wheel slides in deep snow, the snow will accumulate in the rims that will start thumping at about 50 mph due to wheel imbalance - carry a dirty set of gloves so you can reach in between the rim spokes to clean out the snow.

Use the hand brakes to pull into your driveway, to do this turn off the traction control, turn the wheel with a jerk and pull hard till you align with your driveway. It impresses the neighbors but not the ones with children playing with snow balls as you barrel down the street. Go too fast and you'll swing your rear-end all the way around - too cool. it's like being 16 again!

If I had to do it again, I'd go with 19" rims and N rated tires (I'd go 265 on the rears as Mijostyn stated) to maintain high speed performance for those dry days.

Words of advice: Don't forget to rinse the engine after each heavy road salting - you will get serious corrosion on all exhaust related fasteners from the manifold back. You might want to replace all corroded fasteners before it's too late.

Final word: The Porsche was designed to be driven every day in snow so don't let it sit in the garage.

I grinded the stud and nuts then the sleeve loosened up. Once the sleeves were out I hit the remaining stud with a hammer. No issues. On assembly I used Porsche bolt and nut which was an m8 x 1.25 x 40mm bolt and the flanged locking nut. The sleeve is completely reusable.

Hi Mijostyn,

Thanks for all of your feedback which serves as a sanity check. In otherwords, I'm not insane from starting a simple plug change to a major corroded fastener replacement project. My car is back together now and in case anyone wonders, yes, new spark plugs after 40k miles DO make a difference.

I basically had to purchase two new tools:

A disc grinder x 25k rpm.

A 1/4" drive die grinder x 20k rpm.

both came from HB Frt so it was not so hard on the pocket book.

The 1/4" tool was purchased from a reputable machine tool shop so if anything, the cutting head was the most expensive item at $45.

Make sure you wear a full face mask because I allowed the 1/4" grinder to deflect and the tool hit a flange whereby the impact sheared the tool shaft which sent the bit flying like a 50 caliber bullet.

It takes about 3 minutes a nut to grind off.

My theory is that Porsche uses soft metal so it's easy to grind off.

The cost for each exhaust flange bolt nut combination:

Exhaust manifold to catalytic converter fasteners and gasket.

# 42 x 6 bolts $1.98 each

# 8 x 6 nuts $2.60 each

#7 x 2 gasket $4.96 each

the # refers to the standard porsche parts exhaust diagram which I found somewhere in this site.

If you do live in an area which utilized Salt during the winter such as Michigan, I highly recommend budgeting at least $75 for nuts/bolts (if purchased from Porsche) to replace all corroded fasteners because if you allow them to corrode beyond service, you'll be grinding. I went 4 years on these bolts and i drive everyday in the winter. I pity you folks that garage a fine car during the winter - you're missing the best slide experience.

If you have PSE, your hose clamps will also need replacement as they half were completely corroded.

Also not cheap:

Hose Clamp x 4 $4.22 each (2 at each vacuum actuator 100% corroded) (2 each from the steel braided hose to plastic hose transition - just above the plugs 50% corroded)

Clips that fasten the hose to the frame x 2 $0.25 each

My exhaust manifold bolts will continue the path of corrosion until either the manifold drops or I pull the engine out for rebuild - at the rate I drive will be another 8 years?

I have to complain about this because I'm in so much mental stress. I was attaching my Catalytic Converter to the exhaust flange and was torquing the fasteners when the torque wrench I was using malfunctioned and I stripped the threads. I now have to buy another bolt/nut from the dealer and grind the bolt/nut... never ending.

My first 'good' torque wrench was a click-stop from Sears and it lasted 20 years before breaking.

My replacement was a 1/2" Wright Tool unit at $150. A charm.

My first 3/8" torque wrench was a Tekton at $40 about a year ago. I bought it because the store swore by them.

The Cheap Tekton just failed. One would think that failure would be under torque but over torque killed me.

Lesson of the day: just buy the expensive one all the time.

Does anyone else just take their time and work on cars for weeks at a time? Remember, I travel weeks at a time as well so I figure that if I'm out of town who cares if my car is in pieces...

Hi Mijostyn, why not consider copper plated nuts for exhaust applications?

Thanks everyone for the responses. To be honest, I'm backing down from replacing the bolts because if one snaps, I'm in a world of upside down drilling & EZ-outing. I'll deal with the removal of all 12 bolts the hard way when the engine needs an overhaul which at that point, i'll have the engine dropped, on a stand, flipped.

As for the advice on replacement as a preventative maintenance, I'm all for it, just a year late.

Just out of curiosity, does the hole go thru to the cavity of the engine block? i.e., if you drill thru, and oil is present, it will drain out the hole?

Thanks,

Ken

Can anyone give me a rough idea how much it should cost to install headers, mufflers and cats. I just purchased the AWE set up and have no idea if should cost $500 or $1500 to install. I know it is pretty straight forward and if I had the time and a lift I think it would be fun to do myself - no joy there... Any rough idea is useful. I have a guy who certainly seems very honest and does pleanty of high end work (much nicer than my 997) but always good not to be flying blind. Thanks.

The biggest variable in the labor in installing exhaust systems is the degree of difficulty encountered in unbolting the stock exhaust manifolds from the cylinder heads. If any one of those 12 bolts is "frozen" in the aluminum head and snaps off during the attempt at removing it, you are looking at a major change in the amount of time it will take to install your new exhaust parts. Since it looks like you have a 2006, unless you are in a location where lots of salt is used on the roads for snow and ice conditions, your fasteners stand a good chance of not being completely frozen in there. If they do snap off, it can be quite a task to remove the old bolt remains without damaging the threads in the aluminum head.

If the guy is as experienced as you say, have him put the car up on a lift and give you his assessment of the conditions of those twelve bolts. For all of the remaining fasteners between the headers and the cats and the cats and the mufflers, it's pretty predictable how much time it would take to undo those, including whether any (or all) will have to be cut off.

He should be able to give you a fair prediction of the hours that he claims it will take to remove all the old parts. Installation, with all new fasteners, is very predictable in terms of the time required.

From having done it myself on a '97 Boxster, three hours of labor for a total replacement should be sufficient if the car is up on a lift, assuming that none of the aforementioned manifold bolts snap off. Some of mine did (4 of them!), and that was a completely different story. :eek:

Regards, Maurice.

Loren, Also, what is this cover? Should I be concerned about how rusted this is?

Loren, I have a question about the exhaust manifold bolts. While I have everything off (mufflers, catalytic) I'm removing all the rusted nuts/bolts. should I attempt to replace the exhaust bolts before they are too far gone? Or, just leave them alone in case I should shear it off...

Please take a look at these pictures.

I've been buying parts from Andraya at Sunset and I can only say that she provides the best support, responds with diagrams for confirmation & highlighting. Great communicator. I only use OEM components, fasteners, fluids.

OK, I decided to conquer the spark plugs this weekend at 38k miles. I wanted to have access so I removed the mufflers because I could not figure out how anyone with normal hands could get in there, let alone see what's going on. Rear Fascia removal, rear quarter panel removal, rear + left + right heat shield removal. I grinded off the nuts/bolts that held the exhaust to collector union (the ones that are completely rusted in the above pictures.

Problem 1: I have the Sport Exhaust so there is a vacuum actuator with 3 bolts + nuts connected it to the muffler assembly. Well, I sheared 2 out of 3 off on one side. I should have soaked in penetration oil overnight.... I hope the unit is not costly. I noticed that the hose clamps on both units were also rusted away but the hose is in good condition.

close up

The Muffler came right off after removing 3 nuts that mount the muffle assembly onto a bracket that fixes the assembly to the engine.

Heat shield between engine and exhaust also was removed.

(2 hours)

The removal of the coils and plugs took another 2 hours of careful surgery. Plugs 1-2-3 came out fine. Plugs 5-6 also came out fine. Plug 4 took a trip to the store to purchase the 'master series Torx 40' head which is short enough to attach to the top coil bolt + the ratchet without interference with the exhaust mount.

Problem 2: Coil on cylinder 1 has a cracked housing and I have a replacement from Sunset. It has a significant crack in the plastic housing and the resistance reads .8 Ohms which is identical to the new unit but I'm replacing anyway.

Little cracking on the sided:

Huge split!

It just appears to be heat damage to the plastic but no affect on the performance. I guess my thought is that I don't want to be on the side of the road, especially on a part that takes hours to replace. Interesting, cylinders 4-5-6 have no cracking. 1 is pretty bad, 2 and 3 are very minor so I'll go another 40k miles.

Anyway, assembly takes place tomorrow.

HI Brendel, thanks for the tips. I was wondering if you could expand on what NR tools are. I also discovered a crack in the coil housing... not good i guess.

Thanks, Spiffy!

I'm going to tackle the muffler removal after I receive the new fasteners. I checked with some material engineers and they did mention that the worst condition is salt + heat so it's a no win situation. I guess I just have to replace all to-be-corroded fasteners prior to siezure.

I spent the weekend on major maintenance:

I attempted:

1. Cabin Filter (no issues)

2. Oil change (no issues)

3. Power steering fluid (question)

4. Front Rotor Change (no issues)

5. Brake fluid bleed (question)

6. Clutch fluid bleed (no issues)

7. Radiator and A/C Heat Exchanger clean-out (note of caution)

8. Spark Plug Change (major problem)

9. Cabin Filter (no issues)

All parts were ordered from Sunset Porsche.

Power Steering fluid:

I could not figure out for the life of me what the purpose of the small rubber cap on the side of the reservoir? I just extracted what I could from the reservoir and then filled with Pentosin, started the car, turned the wheeel end-to-end several times and then repeated 5 times. I don't know if there's another way to swap the fluid.

Brake Fluid bleed: (I used 1 liter)

The instructions in one of the threads call to drain the outer caliper and then the inner. Why not the inner first because that is where the fluid source initiates it's entry into a caliper, i.e., line to inner caliper, line to between inner and outer caliper. Wouldn't it be logical to first drain inner so fluid is fresh in the inner chamber and then to drain the outer?

Radiator and A/C Heat exchanger clean-out:

Now I know what remover card is... I remember when I purchased the car, I could not for the life of me figure out what this plastic useless credit card was meant for. Now I know it's for the fog lamp housing removal. I used a credit card and it worked...

The removal of the bumper is much easier than I thought, especially after repeating the removal twice because I forgot to plug the 'ambient temperature sensor connector' and I guess I didn't plug the side marker in all the way. Note of caution: be very careful when removing the connector and disconnecting the harness on the passenger side that links the bumper electrical. I snapped the locking connector and the tolerances are very tight so you have to cable tie it together. (electrical tape was not enough tension)

On Sunday, one of neighbors asked if someone stole my wheel on Saturday night!

You can see the connector for the Ambient Temperature Probe that I forgot to connect in the lower right hand corner...

The red bucket is for scale.

The driver side. I don't know why but the driver side was much dirtier than the passenger side. this images are after vacuuming but not before the water spray. Definitely a cure for OCD.

You can see the salt tally on the fan housing. If you don't know, we salt our roads here in Michigan so if a surface is not treated, it will corrode. In this case it was mild surface accumulation, not brown rust.

Spark Plugs:

I read and re-read the articles on spark plug change. I can't remove the muffler because the bolts that clamps the connector between the muffler and exhaust manifold is completely rusted.

Believe it or not, this is the only corrosion of fasteners on the car. (both sides) I'm going to grind the nuts and replace the faster: bolt, nut, washer combination. Anyone know the size?

Are there any material scientists out there? If I were to grind this off and replace with a corrosion resistant fastener, which material should I use? I'm thinking of using a screw made from SS 300 that meets QQ-P-35 and meet FF-S-86 standards. Then again this material has to resist very high temp and stress from expansion of pipes.

I'm also curious if anyone in California could check to see if there's is corroded?

Ok, even if I could remove the bolts, how would you completely remove the muffler? If you see in this image, the bolt which loosened would lift up but it cannot due to interference from the body.

there is no room to remove the coils because of the muffler mount.

A view from the bottom:

I"m wondering if anyone else has this working limitation.

Last question: when the car ran without the ambient temp sensor attached, it faulted so now i have a 'visit Engine Center' on my start-up dash, error 17 = intermittent Amb Temp... How long before this disappears?

Update: it disappeared this morning = 12 hours later.

Thanks.

I have a question about replacement batteries. My 911 is driven everyday (my 4th year in this car, 2 other previous Porsche's) here in Michigan where it's about 10F today. My drive commute to work is about 6 miles so it's about the worst driving circumstances for the car. Anyway, about 2 years ago my battery died so Porsche replaced it and the same symptoms started appearing again, 'whirring long before the start'. I know I'm up for another battery so I checked online at Sears and enter: 08, 911, 3.6L, exact -> no find, optional matches -> no find. Where are you guys finding batteries or are there any recommendations?

BTW, my 997 has a battery charger built-in so you just have to plug it in... I also have a Schumacker (sp) charger and that works as well...

Stiff

Medium

And better than stock.

Paul

I have GT3 front and rears, set them on the lowest setting and find them too soft... (might be in my head...). I'm going to set them +1 this weekend.

Ken

I could not locate a metric grade 5 coupling nut in left hand thread and ran out of time this week so I just had 1" cut-off and had it welded back together.

$ 40 for cutting and welding.

Feedback:

The bar has 5 positions: 1 is furthest out and 5 is furthest in. There was tape intentionally covering the 2nd hole.

When the drop link is attached with no load on the wheels, you can only attach to hole 1 and 2 as the bar interferes with lower link. When the load is applied, there is about an inch of clearance. I'll take pictures later.

I would recommend cutting 1.5". I'm going to road test now.

Ken

 I'm designing a quick fix:

i'm going to cut out the mid section (about 3 inches), thread the ends, fasten coupling nuts, and use a threaded rod (several different lengths).  This entire project is about $75 in tools and parts.  

I've got a lease car so I'm not too keen on upgrading then returning everything to the dealer.

Regards,

Ken

Today, I started my front sway bar swap and was unsuccessful because the GT3 sway bar will not align with the stock C2 drop links. I followed the details from 'atr911' in the Rennlist forum and it worked out well. I would only add the following:

remove the HID levelling assembly and all bolts and clips attached to the subframe. A very narrow 17mm wrench is required to remove the drop link nut. I purchased a harbor freight ball joint remover and had to remove some material to make it fit the tie-rod ends. You only have to remove about 2mm's and it works well. I also removed the lower front fender well to facilitate the bar removal. Nothing was tricky. I do confirm that you do not have to disconnect any coolant lines.

I'm now waiting for a response from Sunset; either a gt3 drop link is required or it uses the same droplink but has different suspension geometry.

BTW, the drop link (08 stock C2) is too long.

Anyone have any recommendations on decent priced drop links? I don't need anything fancy and I don't there there is a whole to drop links...

Thanks,

ken

Hi,

My other car, Nissan pathfinder, was experiencing much sound and vibration so I took the interior apart and applied rubber sheet and aluminum sheet metal to reduce sound and vibration.  it worked big time.

Before:

After:

I want to do the same to my 997 but I'm chicken to start yanking things apart because I'm afraid that that impending 'snap' will occur.

Can someone inform me how to remove all of the rear interior down to the body sheet?  

The intent is to reduce the noise from the wheel wells and engine.  I will also apply rubbert/alu to the front posts but it appears very straight forward.

Thanks,

Ken

 Machina, what is 'string alignment'?

Ken

Dont forget that the actual bar size has less to do with stiffness than the alloy, wall thickness, design of the bar.

You forgot the color.   :)  I like the blue.

Yeah, we are in the middle of automotive, provide technology to a Formula 1 team so I can see and hear many hints on how to make things go but there is nothing like bolting-on and just trying it.  These race teams will actually simulate entire environments with material properties of each component from the road surface up through the entire vehicle.  One guy yesterday was telling me that platform rigidity is something that I should be looking into.  Yeah, as if I'm going to tear apart my car...

In my case it was interesting to see the difference between these solid bars from 997(19mm) to GT3(24mm) with a significant difference in performance.  Of course, in the winter, I might discover something else but that not for 6 months.