Oscarvan

Yes it is barbaric.....but it was to us the final piece of evidence that the motor was in fact seized and that it was not an electrical issue.....nothing (more) to lose. However, this morning it turned over although it didn't start. At this point I am even further out of my league than I have already been so far. Tuesday it's being dolly'd to someone who communes with these motors on a regular basis.

Well, that's exactly where he is now, and where he was before this episode started. He was willing to throw a grand at it to see if he could get his car back....it almost worked, but not really. So the dilemma returns.... Again, if it was mine and I had the money I would put a rebuilt or new engine in it to enjoy the basically new car......but I can understand how after a complete engine replacement at 7K and an IMS bearing failure at 22 K he has become leary of this model....

Well, it's a 2000 with 22000 miles.... kept inside. For all intents and purposes it's a new car (except for the motor of course, that only had 15000 miles on it as it blew at 7000 and was replaced under warrantee...). It's his call, but it it were me and I had his wallet I would have someone replace the engine, and be driving around a new 2000. I think he's worried about doing that and something else blowing up on this car. What he really want's is a good ol' 923....if he can find a specialist that will take this thing in trade he would probably do that.

Epilogue....... The answer is.....8. 8 Miles that is. Today it seized. It will not turn over. Not with the starter, and not flat towing it at 10mph and popping the clutch in second. Laid two stripes of rubber. All I can think is that the shrapnel got into a bearing journal and it welded up. My bud will have to rethink his plan. It was fun while it lasted, I did learn a lot. It probably died two years ago when the IMS bearing shredded. OK, bring on the "Told you so's" I can take it.

UPDATE....... Well, we've been busy. Got the old outer race out, dremmel dressed the shaft best we could, as it was somewhat banged up, and installed the new bearing with all the appropriate ointments. Put it all back together, put the tranny back in, cleaned up the oil pan and oil pickups (lots of shrapnel) a new filter and oil..... and fired it up. Initially it ran like crap, especially at low RPM. Lots of missing. My thought.....it's toast. Then my friend said "what the heck" and throttled it up to 4000 rpm, and it smoothed out. Wait, if it's toast and won't run at 1500 rpm, it definitely shouldn't run at 4000 rpm. We held it at 2500 for a few minutes and it soothed out. Now, mind you, this thing has been sitting in the garage for two years without running as he tried to figure out a plan. Old gas doesn't help, neither do the metal flakes that may have been in the top end. It smoothed out enough were we thought....."Road Test". To make it short, it ran like a bat outa hell....smooth and fast..... He said it ran just like before... (and remember, this guy is a formula V driver and knows what a good running car feels like.) By the time we got back it was idling smoothly. Unfortunately the throwout bearing is making noises.....a minor detail. I drained the oil and pulled the filter, and cut off the ends so I could unfold it. Still a lot of shrapnel. I will pull the pan and check for debris in there. Will refill oil, and install new filter.....drive a few hours, and repeat, until there is no more debris. I suggested he then take it to a specialist for a thorough once over. I know, for a shop and a customer this would not be an acceptable result. But, my friend now has a running car for under $1000, not a lot in the Porsche world, and a lot less than the $18000 he was quoted to fix the problem. How ling will it run? Who knows......1000, 5, 50? But for him, any miles he gets out of it are better than the option of trashing it that he thought was the only one before. I'll let you all know.

Yes, have several 20% HF coupons on my desk.... from the most unusual sources.... like AARP magazine.... :eek: Think he's getting one, then again, I think I should own one..... B) As far as goodwill...... I am the "Expert" on some other forums, and yes it can be frustrating to watch noobs learn. Then again, it's what I'm there for. If I didn't care, I wouldn't respond.

Points taken....However when last shut down this engine ran fine..... Based on that we are assuming that it has not lost timing and no interference damage has taken place. For the rest of your argument, if the engine is shot, it's shot. My friend who has a lifetime of destroying engines as a race car driver behind him, feels good about the engine, and is willing to throw a bearing at it. We'll rinse it out the best we can. As it is he's out 18 grand. There's a chance we can squeeze some more miles out of it for less than one. Plus we're having fun wrenching. I sure am learning a lot quickly. If I ever lose my sanity and end up wanting one of these things, I'll know a lot more than I did a week ago.

Good links! Thanks. Yes, I have been asking him to get a book....... New house rule....no book, no wrenching. I always have them for my own stuff.

Sorry, where is that?

OK, but if it hasn't....would I be able to pull through it?

The outer race is out. Plan is to put the new bearing in, reinstall the tensioners, then pull the plugs and turn the crankshaft, by hand, two revolutions. Question: If there was interference would I be able to move through it by hand? (Plugs out....)

Oh no, I realize that. I have NO intention of moving it a millimeter until the bearing AND the tensioners are back in. Just trying to evaluate my odds of still being in time at this point, and how to proceed once we get a bearing back in there. Thanks.

Cool, how do I know how many chains I have? And, do you have a diagram showing where the caps are? I would have to manually pull the engine to TDC to get the cams lined up.... I guess I would feel it if it was locking up...

Thanks, JFP I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. So, how "tall" are the teeth on the sprockets and how easy is it for them to jump? We are pretty sure timing was good when we started to disassemble, and other than the releasing of the tensioners there hasn't been any movement. It's not my call, but my friend wants to install the new bearing. I will insist we check the marks on the cams before we fire it up. I deduce from what you say that if the timing is off there can/will be piston/valve contact. One more question: Standing behind the car looking forward, which cylinder is #1?

In order for it to jump time a chain would actually have to skip teeth on a sprocket right? Not having seen them, I am assuming the teeth are 1/4" to 3/8" deep? It would take a lot of movement to skip a tooth over the entire sprocket.... Or am I missing something here? On a side note..... how involved is "re-allocation" ? I'm assuming it is done on the top end?

Not really. I do need to ask if you locked the engine at TDC, and locked down the cams before pulling the tensioners? Nope, asked my bud to get a shop manual, he doesn't have one. Found out about that after the fact. Let's just say we are very careful not to move anything.

When the noises started, my friends wife was driving. She pulled over and shut it down. The car was trucked to the dealer for assessment. When it came back to my friends house he started it, briefly, before he put it in the garage. At that point it ran fine. Based on that we are assuming there is no MAJOR damage. What long term effects the debris from the failed bearing may have is another story.

Agreed.... OK, another question... the chain tensioners.... a few threads did nothing.... a few more and they came out.... is that bad? Sprockets are now centered, and we certainly aren't going to turn the engine or horse it around until the tensioners are back in.... Wish I had a good service manual......

OK, we are progressing. Managed to cut the outer race about 80% using dremmel and carbide cutting bit. Will post picture of bit later for those that come behind..... Finally figured out the "lay of the land". There was a snap ring, the groove is now obvious. Snap ring is gone.... More work tomorrow. Oh, did open the oil filter.....much "silver dust"......

Good info! Thanks. The failure happened at low RPM/Speed. When last shut down the engine was running fine, except for the "funny noise". We are cautiously optimistic that timing has not been lost. Tuesday is dremel day.... I have a few large magnets. Will post results.

Thanks for the reply.... The engine was replaced March 2005..... No we're not sure whether the engine is worth trying to save..... It's worth a grand to him to find out. OK, one vote for the dremmel with small wheel......

Greetings, new to this forum, not new to forums.....great tools! I'm the lucky one in this story, my neighbor across the street is not. He has owned since new, a 2002 996 now with 22000 miles and yes, his IMS blew out. He is a pretty decent wrencher and race car driver. As it stands the car is worth just about nothing. He is not in the mood for the $18000 fix. The engine was replaced by Porsche under warrantee after just 7000 miles, and his faith in the marquee is, well, damaged. But, he is willing to throw a grand at the LN kit and try to fix this..... This is where I come in, I have the lift, and more tools. So, we have removed the tranny and some of the parts of the bearing...... this is where we are at: Yes I know.... the LN website has a picture just like it on it and it says...."If it looks like this, give up." But, it's pretty much a lawn ornament as it is, and before selling it for scrap or parting it out he, again, is willing to throw a grand at it. So, at this point all I am looking for is some help on the following. We know about the tensioners, back off the bolts BUT DONT TAKE THEM OUT as you may lose timing. So how far do they come out? Enough to center the shaft? And this is the big one.... what is the best method to remove the outer race at this point? I don't think the LN puller will help anymore.....my thought is to carefully dremmel it out. I know, crude but better than a lot of banging. There is a slight lip on the race, I thought about fabricating some kind of hooked slide hammer bit..... any thoughts? Yes, there's crud in the engine. We pulled the pan and found some of it. Notice there's 5 out of the six balls from the bearing in the picture, one is awol.....and so are all the pieces that separated them. We plan on putting a hose on the "out" fitting of the oil filter (haven't done the autopsy on that yet, hope most of the crud is in there) and then with a pump forcing a flushing medium through the engine and just letting it drop out of the bottom before we replace the pan, fill with oil replace filter and install a magnetic oil plug. Run for a minute or two, change oil and filter again..... Any more thoughts?