paulv

You should also look at getting the TBN tested too - the rule of thumb I use is when the TBN is reduced by 50% of the starting level, then it's time to change the oil. M1 0w40 starts at 10, so when you are at 5, then it's time to change IMHO. From the UOAs posted, 7,500 mi is right about that mark, like the PCA posted recommendations.

Forwarned, a bunch of us guys from the Pelican forums have had problems with Blackstone re: accuracy and repeatability of their tests. I use Staveley Services to do all my oil testing, both VOAs and UOAs.

For what its worth, there are much better approved oils than M1 0w40.

Charles,

I've also heard the 50% rule for TBN also (mainly articles from Noria publications). When did you stop using Blackstone? I've heard that they've improved on their testing.

Also, I read your "What oil should I use...." article (on the LN site) a while back and really enjoyed it -- also passed it on to a couple of my Porsche friends.

Regards,

paul....

Please disregard what I mentioned earlier -- I think my wife dropped a stupid pill in my cereal this morning -- my whold day at work has been a disaster also.

Sorry for the bogus info.....

Regards,

paul...

Just did a used oil analysis on my 2000 S with 72k on it (posted on 986 section fyi). It has used mobil 1 0W40 since new at 15k intervals except for this last interval. This last interval was 8700 miles and the "TBN" rating was 5.2 which means there was a lot of life left in the oil. Some comments I have received say I could have doubled this oil change interval.

However the iron levels built up over time and as the report says this makes the oil more abrasive. So even though there is lots of life left in the oil and it could go 15k, the contaminants which build up in the oil warrant changing it sooner (in my opinion anyway). I like the 7500 interval as it is cheap insurance and hey, if transfusions work for tour de france racers, why not for the boxster's lifeblood? :)

Is this the first UOA you've done? The idea behind UOAs is to trend the data over time to see any upward changes of the wear metals which would indicate that a problem could possibly happen in the near future -- maybe the Fe level you're getting is normal -- I don't know and still on the learning curve with my Boxster and it's still being broken in. The "lot of life left in the oil" is a relative statement as the life of the oil is based on many other things (viscosity changes, fuel dilution, TBN, TAN, etc). The TBN you have only tells you that there is still a significant amount of additive (to reduce acids, etc) remaining in the oil.

You should post your UOA on BITOG so all the anti-Mobil 1 people there can heckle you -- actually, you may get some good responses.

Regards,

paul....

$70!!!

I've been using quality ones available from NAPA and other generic car suppliers. I've bought 1/2 amp units for my boats and cars for years that have adapters for permanent mount through the battery, alligator clips or a cig lighter option and they were only $29-$39.

Been using them for a decade on two boats, 3 jet skis, a car and a tractor. Not a problem once...

Good point, but I tend to be very cautious around newer cars with "advanced" electronics, especially with things that are still running after the key is off.

Regards,

paul...

I'm looking for a maintainer that can be plugged into the cig lighter (assuming that this is usually how it's done). I really don't want one that is severely overpriced because it says Porsche on it. After all, it's not like Porsche manufactures maintainers...they just have one private labled for them. But I do want quality....don't want to burn down my garage and Boxster to save a few bucks.

I assume that 1 amp +/- is all it needs to survive the winter. I've been checking eBay, Amazon and others without success. What are you guys using????

Thanks, Bob

Bob,

The Battery Tender is good and inexpensive but can only keep your battery charged (for storage). CTEK makes the Porsche units and you can check out their models as these will maintain as well as fully charge batteries.

Here's info:

CTEK 3300 is $70, cig light adapter is $10 (http://www.ctek.com)

Battery Tender (#021-0123) is $30, cig light adapter is about $10 (http://www.batterystuff.com)

Regards,

paul....

Why the change?

Too many customers giving them crap about the 20k change interval?

Do the 2008 models have direct fuel injection? I've heard that people with other [non-Porsche] cars have noticed fuel diluted oil problems with this technology (at the high performance end).

Regards,

paul...

Paul, no the 987 dose not have direct fuel injection yet in the 2008 MY.

OK, thanks. I don't have any other ideas of why the OCI has been reduced to 12000 miles, but I like that better than 20000 miles!!!!

Regards,

paul...

Why the change?

Too many customers giving them crap about the 20k change interval?

Do the 2008 models have direct fuel injection? I've heard that people with other [non-Porsche] cars have noticed fuel diluted oil problems with this technology (at the high performance end).

Regards,

paul...

According to the Nov 2007 parts list:

The Caymans get the -53 filter.

The 987 through MY06 gets the -60 and the 987 MY07 and newer gets the -53.

I have no idea of the difference.

To my "untrained" eye, the only difference so far is the Mahle is a little more expensive (~ $2.50).

Regards,

paul....

Great reading but what is the bottom line - my '08 Boxster S is on order so when should I do it's first oil change?

Bob,

Congrats on the new Boxster. IMO, I would go with the 7500 mile oil change intervals that the Tech Q&A recommends on the PCA website. I've decided to follow that (as mentioned above). As far as dealer recommendations, some dealers say to go with the 20000 mile changes as the factory recommends, and my dealer said to change it at 10000 miles.

My bottomline was decided because I bought the car and didn't lease it. If I leased it, 20000 miles oil changes at the dealer would be it.

Regards,

paul...

Popolou/RFM,

Thanks for posting this info. I started experiencing the same issue when turning lock-to-lock recently (it's starting to get cold in Boston!) and was wondering about it. I don't have to worry now.

Regards,

paul...

Westcoaster, I can't see how Porsche would void a warranty for changing the oil more often than required, but I do think changing the oil every 3,000 miles for example could in fact increase wear.

I agree with many others that one a year or every 7-10,000 miles, whichever happens first, is the better plan.

Now, people who do DE's and etc do a different schedule, and probably should.

Agreed, so now I am just searching for a filter and the oil, off to WalMart at lunch to see what they have, here in Canada they also have a store, Canadian Tire, they carry Mobil 1 as well, but I have yet to see it in the gallon jug, only quart (liter) sizes.

The stealer probably wants an arm and a leg for the filter! Every time I buy a part from them I check the price list before I go and they consistantly charge more then the MSRP for parts, sometimes a lot more! I wouldn't be surprised to find that it is over $30...

Westcoaster,

Since you're a contributing member here, you can look at the TSB for the Approved Oil List (early this year), so you're not restricted to just Mobil 1 0W-40. What you'll see is that there are many oils (mostly 5W-40) available. I wouldn't run an xW-30 in a Porsche, and heavier oils could cause problems with the VarioCam system. You can buy your OEM filters from Sunset which is on this site -- I already bought a bunch of stuff from them and I'm happy with their prices/service.

I also agree with White987S' comments. The Blackstone site has a link to some guys who did a Synthetic Oil Study (Mobil 1 and Amsoil) and they showed how most of the wear is in the first 2-3000 miles after the oil has been changed. In addition, one of the oil companies (forgot which one) came out with a study supporting the same conclusions.

Regards,

paul....

I love seeing these, thanks for posting.

In another post, I mentioned that I've generated a spreadsheet (with graphs) to trend this stuff. If you want a copy, let me know.

Regards,

paul...

The amount of oil you can fill til the display shows 4 segments depends on the time that you have to let the engine dripping out. The work shops have no much time and they fill approx. 8.00 L - 8.25 L ( they have also the PIWIS tester to check the level ). If you do the job by your self and you let the engine dripping, let's say overnight, you can fill approx. 8.75L. starting witch 8.50 L.

RFM,

Good points -- thanks for providing this info. When I did my car, I waited 30 mins (oil was hot from a test drive) and at that time, the oil was dripping out at a rate of 1 drip/sec before I re-installed the drain plug. I've always used the one drip/sec rule on all cars.

Regards,

paul...

Only that its 7.75l capacity with a new filter and when checking, each segment on the display is 0.4l

Pop

Check out my post on the 987 threads about when I recently changed my oil on the Boxster.

Regards,

paul...

For what exactly?

Pop

Pop,

Sorry for not being specific -- When I recently changed my oil, I put in 7.75L and only got 1 bar to light up. I eventually went with Loren's recommendation and added another 0.75L in 100mL steps after 8L until I got the 3rd bar lit and stayed under or on 8.5L.

Regards,

paul...

Only that its 7.75l capacity with a new filter and when checking, each segment on the display is 0.4l

Pop

Check out my post on the 987 threads about when I recently changed my oil on the Boxster.

Regards,

paul...

I put together an Excel spreadsheet to trend my used oil analyses from Blackstone labs. If you want a copy, PM me with your email.

Regards,

paul...

This is very interesting, since this is the first 'new' Porsche that I have owned, and am taking through break-in I was wondering the same thing. They spec the first oil change at what 30,000 km or 2 years which ever comes first!

I am coming up to one year and 15,000 km and wondering about flushing that 'break-in' oil and debris out...

Considering that the kinematic viscosity was out of spec at only 7500 miles, I wouldn't wait 2 years or 30000km to change the oil!!! Once a year or 10000 miles is a good oil change interval -- Mercedes recommends this for all their AMG motors and 13000 miles for all other models, and when I had an 03 E320 prior to my Box, I changed the oil when the inboard computer said so (approx 15000 miles) and the TBN value was at 2.6. I don't know for a fact, but I would speculate that the TBN would fall dangerously below 2.0 when hitting 20000 miles.

If you're leasing your car, I would stay with the factory recommendation, but if you own the car and want to keep it for a while, go with 7500 mile but not more than 10000 mile intervals -- my opinion.

BTW, the PCA tech list on their website recommends 7500 mile changes.

Sorry I didn't express everything in metric units.

Regards,

paul....

Paul, another good reason to change the factory fill early. Do you agree with this strategy? I did the first oil change at about 1,300 miles.

I believe that it's a good idea to change the factory fill early (earlier than what the manufacturer recommends for a first oil change), but I wouldn't do at 1300 like you did. This is because I've seen two independent articles disputing the 3000 mile oil change as the oil needs to be "broken in" and most wear occurs between 1000-2000 miles after the oil change. I would go with an initial change somewhere between 3000-5000 miles -- mind you, this isn't based on any scientific evidence, only my opinion. I did mine at 7500 miles because I've decided that this will be my change interval. My reasoning is that I'm driving in commuter traffic on a highway with my work about 25 miles away, so I have concerns about moisture in the oil not evaporating. Considering oils (i.e., Motul 8100 series, RedLine, etc) that have a lot of esters in them tend to hold water more than mineral/PAO based oils.

Regards,

paul...

OK, I've been harassed enough (in a good way, though). I've added more oil to get to the third bar. I added twice in 100mL amounts, so 200mL got me there. I'll watch it for a few days. Since this is my first Porsche, I'll probably be asking more anal questions until I learn the car. Looks like the prize goes to Loren for recommending 8.5L.

If I lived closer, I would have attended Loren's weekend get together and gained some knowledge.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in to help.

Regards,

paul....

Come on, Paul, why are you concerned about a $9 quart of oil for a +$65,000 Porsche!! :)

I know where you are coming from, I run 5W40 Red Line.

The only way to get an accurate read on the oil level is in the morning, on level ground, just before start-up. If you check when the oil is hot, it will almost always say full.

Open up that last bottle....it's not Screaming Eagle!!!

I know, I know..... I just didn't want to buy any more oil for a while (I bought 24L for 3 oil changes) and I would have to go and buy 3 more L to keep my inventory up to date. I'm basically a cheap S.O.B!!!

I agree, I always check my oil every morning inside my garage (level ground). Obviously, this oil level thing is bothering me and I have to figure out what to do about it. I just may crack open another L of oil. Since I will be doing 7500 OCI's (every 6 months), the remainder of the oil should be OK for next time providing I keep the cap on tight and keep storing the oil in my dry basement and not in the garage.

Regards,

paul....

Paul - the viscosity at 100C is shown as 11.4 cSt which is quite a bit down on the Mobil 1 spec sheet of 14.3 cSt. From your past experience, is this typical?

Richard,

Good point. When I filled out the sample form for Blackstone, I indicated M1 0W-40 because I assumed that it was the factory fill. From the narrative on the top of the analysis, Blackstone said that factory fills are in a 30 weight grade range, so this is why the KV100 value wasn't in the SAE J300 required 12.5 - 16.3 cSt range.

If this isn't true, and Blackstone and I are both wrong, then the oil sheared down like crazy.

Regards,

paul...

Paul, let's say the graphs start pointing in directions what you don't like. Then what do you do? Hypothetically speaking.

Start thinking of trading the car for something else! But seriously, I would need to identify why those trends are happening, what parts are affected, consider repair approaches.

Regards,

paul....

Thanks for the replies everyone -- I going to check the level after I've driven the car (hot oil) for curiosity. As Loren pointed out, the service manual says the same as the owner's manual - 7.75 L. I'm running Motul 8100 Xcess and it cost me about $9/L so I'm not going to open another L just to add a little oil and have a good L of oil hanging around for half a year.

Before anyone asks the question, here's the answer: I've elected to use Motul 8100 because some other people (non-Porsche) have used it with good results -- I hope I get good results also. Although different engines treat the same oil differently, I still wanted to give it a try.

I'm sure most of you guys share my dislike of electronic indicators for oil levels, and miss the good ol' days of dipsticks!!

Regards,

paul...

Paulv, will you do this for every oil change?

Yes I will and I'll develop a spreadsheet to graphically trend the data. I've done this before for other cars I've owned.

Boggtown: the basic analysis from Blackstone is $22.50 -- I usually send it priority mail which is another ~ $4. When you take a sample, collect it when the oil is about half way draining.

Regards,

paul....

here's my used oil analysis for those of you who enjoy this sort of stuff.

Regards,

paul...