txhokie4life

Ok, you have the engine out of the car because it has blown and you sourced a thought-to-be-good replacement engine.

Now you are faced with the age old question of how much preventative maintenance is the right amount and how much is too much. And how much improvement do you want to do?

Since many of these replacements are easier to do with the engine out of the car, what do you replace before you install that used engine? And where do you use OEM parts and where do you use third party "improved" parts? (known third party parts are underlined)

*** Sorry I originally had quotes and unquotes -- but the post engine didn't like it.

Depends on the age of the donor, how long it has sat.. etc.

With my projects I have used exclusively OEM parts, except for upgrades from LN Engineering

for the IMS and Thermostat.

I take the tact I never want to see a project twice.

In my mind the effort to get an engine in and out is reasonably high and

you already have a pretty good investment in the engine (and the car) itself

so you want to have as "new" an end result as reasonable.

Note my first project was the complete rebuild of a Boxster S -- what is now

my everyday driver and I did all the below and more

(since it was a tear down to the crank) (Jeff at Sunset and I became good buddies)

So I guess I can say I stand behind my words :-)

Clutch?

Pressure plate?

Not specifically engine related -- but I did both at 30k -- while you are in there you're looking

at about $500 for parts and a tad extra labor.

AOS/J-tube?

Yes -- as they generally have been redesigned and upgraded

Heat exchanger?

In most cases this is cheap insurance.

Water Pump? Thermostat? Gasket? Pulleys? Belt?

Yes, Possibly, I like to use the LowTemp Thermo from LN, yes, not usually unless high mileage or issues,although

replacing tensioner pulley is reasonable, almost for sure on the belt.

Head gaskets?

Only if the heads are pulled. Then it is a must.

Plugs? Plug wires? Coil packs? Spark Plug Tubes? O-Rings?

I have done this for every engine I have done -- but may or may not be required.

Technically there are no plug wires.

IMS?

100% of the time for me.

RMS?

Stairing you in the face begging to be done :-) very cheap part

Chain Tensioner?

Not cheap. when you consider there are 3 and each is pricey.

Drain Plug?

Probably not worth it -- but doesn't cost much

Deep Sump Kit?

If you are going to track it -- I think you should seriously consider it -- others might

say it is a must. Otherwise -- probably not needed.

Motor Mount?

I would inspect these and make a call at the time

Fuel-injector O-rings?

If you remove the intake than this is reasonable.

What else should you consider replacing/upgrading?

You've covered a lot of stuff.

Lets assume you are not tearing the engine down.

The oil pump hexoganal stem that comes off the IMS

is reportedly a weak link. The effort to pull the oil pump

off if the engine is out is not that bad. LN? and/or Flat6Innovations

sells an upgrade.

Depending on the age of the engine, I would look at the timing chain tensioner blades

for the cams. I've experienced excessive wear on those.

If you are going to do this -- that means you pulled the cam cover, and then you might as well

check the lifters.

Then you can inspect the valve springs -- and decide if you want a valve job or not.

You get your head gasket that way :-)

I would inspect and replace any suspect hoses.

Possibly do a transmission fluid change/filter as well.

I'm probably forgetting somethings -- but your list was pretty extensive :-)

All this starts to add up as death by a thousand cuts...

No one part or replacement seems to cost all that much,

but when you add them all together -- ouch! :-)

look forward to others thoughts on this thread.

Mike

Thanks for all the help with my spark plug issue the coil boot on 2 plugs were loose runs and sounds great but the cel is on now why would a plug remove and replace cause this.

You'll need to read the codes to see what they are....

I don't know the history -- but it is possible that that CEL is response to previous issue -- possible to clear and see if it reappears.

Also double check your work -- making sure that the plugs are properly torqued, all connections are tight.

Unlikely and just a WAG, but did you use the proper plugs -- possible wrong plugs may have it burn lean or rich due to level of spark?

m

Have you checked compression on that cylinder to make sure there is no issues with the valves or cylinder itself?

If low compression -- than check leakdown for source.

If no issue there -- do you get oil or fluid build up in that cylinder?

Lastly -- maybe there is a fuel lnjector probelm.

M

Thanks... how do you check compression... will a Durametric tool tell me or is there more work to it?

Well I'm not an expert -- but basically what you do is to pull the spark plug on one cylinder at a time.

Than you get a compression test kit which uses compressed air through a set of valves.

You put that cylinder at TDC -- i.e. where all the valves should be closed and you turn on the

compressed air with one end of the kit connected to compressor and the other screwed into the

spark plug hole. To get to TDC -- you turn the crankshaft until the valves of that cylinder are seated.

It often ends up being a trial and error exercise.

If the compression is good than you have good seals. That is all the valves have seated properly and

the rings are sealing well.

The absolute value is not as important -- as the test rig will vary. But you want each cylinder to be +/- 5-10% of each other.

If one is out of range low -- or shows no compression at all then you do a leak down test.

Again you goto TDC -- but here you try to determine where the air is leaking. Into the exhaust than the exhaust valve

is not seated properly, intake leak is the an intake valve issue. Neither (which means rings) means the rings are leaking

and probably need a rebuild.

Do some googling -- and I'm sure you can find both a better explanation, and pointers to the equipment you need.

mike

Its on an 05 Boxster 2.7L manual. 26,300 miles.

I got codes P0300 and P0305.

I changed the coils on cylinder 5 and 6 and still got the same codes.

I changed all the spark plugs and changed the coils around on each side and still got the same codes.

All the coils looked good, no cracks.

I checked to make sure they were plugged in all the way and they were.

When I start it, it runs a little and dies. It will start again, and if I rev it it will drive (I had to move it from my driveway), but dies.

I figured it can't be the spark plugs, since they are new. It can't be the coils since they are not in their original spot.

Any help? Anything else I can look for?

Have you checked compression on that cylinder to make sure there is no issues with the valves or cylinder itself?

If low compression -- than check leakdown for source.

If no issue there -- do you get oil or fluid build up in that cylinder?

Lastly -- maybe there is a fuel lnjector probelm.

M

Is there a way to jumper or finagle the ignition switch to get it to run temporarily?

Will be inspecting a vehicle for purchase that has a bad ignition switch

and want to "bypass" this to insure the vehicle will run, perform

a duramatic, etc.

thankx,

M

I'll argue there is virtually no difference between 13k miles and 23k miles for a 9 year old car.

get a ppi, and go with what ever one fits you.

If you want a C4 with a tip -- get that one -- seems like it is the better bargain.

If you drive it -- 2 years from now will you notice the difference between 30K and 40k miles?

If you were going to tell me 11k miles and 50K miles like a previous poster mentioned -- than

that is a different story.

m

I've got a 3.4L engine I am working on and have the heads out to get a three angle valve

job but neither the Cylinder Head expert, nor I can find any specifications.

Anyone have a source for this information?

thanks,

Mike

Do not fire this engine up again until it is diagnosed by someone who has a clue about the internals and modes of failure of the M96 engine. The engine has symptoms that are not favorable and it is at the point where seconds could literally determine it's life.

Engines fail daily without overheating.

Engine is toast. :( Any advice for where to get a new one?

How was it determined that it is toast?

M

The first M96 I rebuilt -- I had the cam chain off a few teeth. (how I don't know

I was pretty sure I checked it -- and that's my story and I'm sticking to it :-)

Of course we didn't realize it at the time -- but it behaved just like you are

describing and like the video sounds. I don't remember the exact codes.

At first we couldn't get it to start, then when we did it had a hard time idling.

Devil of a time trying to figure out the cause. Finally my mechanic

tutor who is deaf felt that it was taking exhaust through the intake,

and the only way for that was if the timing was off.

We pulled the valve cover and discovered the error.

SOOO -- get this to a mechanic, check the timing, if off, find the cause and correct.

As jake said he is not that far away -- let him or someone else knowledgeable help you

-- I'm hoping you can salvage this relatively cheaply.

mike

ok i ve done everything and removed the seats and even renovated the seats with new leather in the process

the immob is tottaly dry and i sprayed the inside just in case.....

now the car starts sometimes and sometime there is no crank at all

all electrical functions are operating perfectly i did not notice anything unusual

Can it be another reason? (i noticed that the car starts early morning when it is cold?)

hmmm -- check to see if there is corrosion on the bolt that connects ground to the bottom of the car.

Also check to see if there is corrosion on any of the wires in the connectors to the IMMOB.

I have had the connectors off -- I'm told that the wires to the connector with the white lock "bar"

can actually be removed from the connector -- but I have not done that before.

They are supposed to be able to pull these and check for corrosion.

for drying

Another possible way is to get some Ready-Dry and place it in a bag with the IMMOB or whatever

esp if you have opened it to insure no water is in there.

mike

The 2,5 I was considering (and the only one I found until now...) reads 130.000 Km, too much IMHO. 2,7s seem somewhat more abundant. Is a 2,5-2,7 swap feasible? Would anyone be so kind as to elaborate on the subject?

Best regards,

HB

That is pretty high mileage (ok high kilometers :-)

a 2.7L would require a new DME at a minimum. Maybe some wire changes as well.

Depending on the extent of your damage -- maybe resleeving with nikasils is an option.

see www.lnengingeering.com

mike

An update to this issue. I had the motor replaced by a qualified, competent and professional garage and the Porsche runs sweet.

They dumped the information from the computer and they found the information that it contained.

Contrary to the statement that the Porsche dealership made that it could not find the time date stamp when the motor over revved and it must have been the moment before the motor broke; this new information dump said something totally different.

The car has 891.4 operating hours on it when the motor damage occured. The revs at range 1, 7300-7500 rpm and range 2, 7500-7700 rpm, happened before and up to operating hour 828. The four ignition hits in range 3 to 6 happened up to or on operating hour 164, 727 operating hours before the motor broke. The mechanic will attest that 4 ignition hits is not enough to make a motor break.

I have a feeling that the Porsche dealership had the time date information but would not share this with me so they get me to pay for the motor and then claim warranty costs from Porsche.

I am a happy camper since this is hard evidence that Porsche will have to address.

Happy, top down motoring in the city today.

I'm curious to know how this turns out...kindly update as the situation develops. good luck...

Just an update.

Happily I have my ride back on the highway and running perfect.

I have collected the hard data on paper with the requisites written statements backing up the data from qualified personnel and am proceeding in discussion with a lawyer to move forward in small claims court.

Dealership responded to the Better Business Bureau investigation by saying that I got angry for no reason and removed the car before the had a chance to fully investigate the situation.

Justice moves slowly but I am confident the "black box" data proves them incorrect.

Take care

Relaxed motoring

good evening to all

this is an update to the problem that occured as per the above information.

The Porsche dealership and Porsche North America took over 2 1/2 years dragging out this situation before we reached a settlement in my favor.

Happy motoring

Take care

Happy to hear it worked out for you -- sorry it took so long.

m

Common codes in various modules are low voltage caused from a weak battery or the vehicle being stationary too long. If the battery voltage drops too low during cranking it will set these bogus codes.

Cool, that would explain some of the errors I get on the touareg too ;)

The main thing you can see is the motor revs.

I think there are 2 classes.

As I understand them -- the first is not serious -- and while is high revs (maybe even hitting the rev limiter) -- they are within spec.

the second is more serious and are true overrevs -- usually during downshifting.

My guess is you won't find any other codes of significance.

m

If the IMS bearing failed it would have given you no warning before failing (overeheating etc>)

I hope you are able to save the engine without a complete rebuild. They will be able to tell if it was an IMS without a complete engine teardown. The IMS flange is exposed once you remove the clutch and flywheel. You will only know the damage once you pull it apart.

By the way 135k on one of these engines is pretty good if that is any concellation.

Good luck and keep us posted

If they understand the M96 engine -- they can check engine codes and check timing before

they have to pull the engine.

They can check compression as well. I've got a boroscope I use to look inside the cylinders

to see if there has been any valve contact with the pistons.

You can also check the oil and coolant to see if there are signs of intermix.

Just because you have intermix does not mean you will overheat.

These steps might indicate the issue -- but if not then the transmission and engine

can be lowered and separated and at that point you have access to the IMS

flange and you might be able to determine if it has issues there.

Starting the engine and listening around is possible -- but if something is on its last legs

and gives out and it takes the engine with it, you might have been able to detect

and save/replace before running the engine -- you'd be kicking yourself.

good luck with it and keep us posted. helps everyone the next time around.

I'm still learning and this board is always helpful.

Mike

I took my 1998 986 2.5L Tiptronic (approx. 135k miles) to have the oil changed Friday night. The mechanic poured in the the two 5 liter bottles of Mobil 1 5w40, I had to brought in myself and told me it looked like I needed to add a little more oil to the car. I added a quart the next day and the dip stick showed that the oil level was within range.

Two questions for everyone:

1.) Why would the engine be low on oil after pouring in ten liters, shouldn't the car only require 8.8L when changing oil?

There is 8.8liters of capacity under normal conditions, but if there is an access to a location

that should not have oil in it -- than you could be filling it as well.

Check your coolant -- is there oil in there?

***2.) Why does my CAR NOW SOUND LIKE IT HAS ROCKS IN THE ENGINE?

It could be the IMS as folks have mentioned -- and it might not be completely gone yet.

so you might be able to save it.

It could also be a timing chain loose slapping against something as it looses tention -- think

of a loose bicycle chain slapping against its housing.

Unfortunately there are many possibilities. The two interesting points is that the engine

shut down and you were able to re-start it and drive it.

I would find a good indie and have them check on it .

where r u located?

mike

I live in Seattle washington and bought a used 2005 Boxster with 33,000 miles on it and it failed at a stop light while not moving and destroyed itself. Intermediate Shaft failure..the engine was frozen up. New reman costs 18K to redo. Car is worth 21K. Am looking to start a class action suite against Porsche. Anyone who is affected please call me I have a very good class action attorney.

Peter

I've heard Porsche has been replacing engines with IMS issues with 2005's even out of warranty.

Check with your dealership.

mike

Possible bank 1-3 is off timing.

there is a way to check this -- but if you are not comfortable doing this I would seek help.

To do this you would check to see if the exhaust camshaft is aligned north south when

the crankshaft is at TDC. There is a green plug at the end of the shaft.

unfortuntately the removal process is typically destructive to this cap.

They are inexpensive to replace.

I have not had a chance to listen to your video -- I will try to do that tonite.

Mike

Thank you so, so much, Loren.

Loren -- as always -- is right on the mark.

Just swap the engine, while you are doing that consider changing the clutch and doing

an IMS retrofit.

mike

Help!

My 98 Boxster suffers from a slipped cylinder sleeve. Porsche has not yet answered my infuriated letter and meanwhile, I found a 99 engine in (apparently) suitable condition and I am considering a swap. Are there any compatibility issues at stake?

Do I have to consider swapping the donor ECU also or will the 99 engine work with "my" ECU?

Any other issues I should be aware of?

I really need your help here.

Best,

2.5L to 2.5L -- straight swap assuming they are both the same type of transmissions.

If not pull the TC/Flywheel from one to the other AND there will be a slight hose difference

for the AT vs Manual on the lower drivers side front.

m

could be a spun bearing too.

m

Ok guys - got the ignition switch in the mail and installed in about 30 minutes - I have hand cramps already. Turned the key and the engine is still struggling to keep started. I can pump the gas and keep it going but the engine will not idle on its own.

Have you checked the timing?

Can you tell if you are getting back pressure into the intake?

We had one that was off a few teeth on the camshaft -- it would turn over -- but it was not

happy and would not idle.

m

Very, very nice -- what was your original symptoms and how was it diagnosed?

thx,

Mike

The immobilizer is and was and is definitely in peril . They can get wet inside and dry out enough for lt do run. I would take it out and open it up, make sure it's dry inside because if not the water will eventually wreck it. Then you need to find out how the water got there. The most common route is the result of plugged up drain pipes/holes on the left and right of the engine, under the clam shell. I'd run not walk on this one. The immobilizer and programing is not cheap.

The clicking, if it were from the engine bay could be a bad ground (or less likely a drained battery). Moisture can aggravate this, check the battery first, look for fuzz around the terminals, also the ground strap to the starter .

Removing the immobilizer can be really easy if you don't min d making a short incision behind the seat. BUT GET IT and dry it OUT AND FIND THE Leak.

Regards, PK

actually just pull the drivers seat --the IMMOB sits in a recessed area that is not covered by

carpet. Then you can check the carpet area as well as the ground connection. The immob

is easily removed. It can then be opened easily and checked for dampness and corrosion.

I found that if that ground connection is corroded or loose -- you get no crank action either.

New IMMOB and keys programmed is ~$550-$650 depending on number of keys and if

the wires need cleaning. The programming of the IMMOB and Keys can only be done at

the dealership.

Also when you check the drain plugs - check the shell that drains into those plugs to see

if they have been compromised. If the top ever slipped out of its tracks, it can slice

those trays and then water will seep under the carpet into the padding.

The carpet is water resistant from the top. So any moisture under the carpet stays there!

mike

Just a quick update

after several hours and tries it started fine and everything is working

i need to see if it will start tomorrow.

they water event and this non-start could be unrelated -- but you can check the

IMMOB connector under the seat for corrosion.

By what you described it seems unlikely to be the contributor, but worth looking

at anyway.

Maybe fuel pump or related to fuel delivery.

Might also be the starter solenoid.

mike

I'm putting back together one of my projects.

I was tightening one of the last bolts for the rollcage (the passenger rear, forward bolt).

Two many steroids I guess.....

Anyway, I can't locate a head from the underside, and I'm thinking this is a bolt stud that

is welded to the frame?

I was hoping that it might be a double bolt (one that screws in, and then a nut goes on it),

like the ones for the convertible motors. But I'm thinking it is just welded to the frame.

Does anyone know for sure?

thanks,

Mike

And this is supposed to be a fun, relaxing, hobby! C'est la vie