Nylon

I am on same page abtmansfi. Porsche is making money on their scam. The attorneys are making an embarrassing amount of money as usual. Only reason they jumped on this. The gal from Idaho should hold out. Porsche should have called in the cars and fixed the pipes. Simple. It would go a lot further in goodwill and is the "RIGHT THING TO DO". AND it would have cost them less than fighting it. Not to mention the taste left to anyone who may make another purchase. Nothing more pathetic than a donkey dance of denial and being drug into class action. There will be a whole bunch of us in this same boat who can't "afford" their settlement and the rest who do will still be getting the shaft. Only in a different way. The argument that both sides should be happy that neither side is happy is a false equivalent and is a testament to where the American legal system is parked.

Guy and Gals, Just reread my post and want to thank all of you for the information. I seemed to be singular in mind but as I re read I notice more good advice that came to me that I didn't properly acknowledge at the time...so Thanks Again! So far I am finding an older Cayenne to be a great car / truck ... car to me since I have two 3/4 ton suburbans. Once they are demystified a bit and re discover that they are still trucks and car machines underneath it all. So much goodness with incredible weakness. ie plastic coolant tubes/ Ts in Cayenne. IMS bearing in the 99-04 911's and a worse ims bearing in 05 + 911s. Engine wrecking faults, leave you stranded and or very expensive repairs. Discovering the 911 issues as I am looking to buy an 03-05 911C4. How can a carmaker make such good vehicles yet make such colossal engineering blunders?

You do not need to use Porsche Coolant but it is Pentosen coolant. It needs to be done but if you read the print on the class action there will be no $350. They only give that if its installed by a dealer and the dealer will eat that token and give it all back to PNA. http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/38388-coolant-pipe-replacement-detailed-instructions/ http://www.renntech.org/forums/tutorials/article/329-cayenne-turbo-brass-t-pipe-mod/

If you do it yourself or indie your out it looks like. Their settlement doesn't even cover cost of part. Much less the big buck install at dealer. This really is not a settlement in my opinion. It's lip service and it still costs you...now or later and worse if it leaves you stranded in the boonies.

Got my notice yesterday. Since I bought 04 turbo used and am now at 97,000 miles....I would get $375 towards a dealer installed replacement. That is not a settlement that is another rip off. The aluminum pipes alone cost $1000. Recall and replace..that's a settlement. $375 isn't even fluff money in dealer charges...not to mention destroyed starters and seals as well as plastic coolant T's. Throw in the stranded somewhere factor or the tow from somewhere or the poor schmuck doing this replacement in his garage. What about the folks who already spent $5k for just pipe, not T's nor replacement of starters and seals and tow fees and loss of use of car.

# 1 Yes the drier / desiccator element was replaced. Lines, evaporator and condenser were flushed repeatedly from three separate locations with a pulsing high pressure flush device. Vacuum was pulled for 45 min to remove solvent..then system held vacuum for 30 min. I will mention that it was 2669.76 for the total with tax. Spendy? yes...but less than half of what dealer would have charged and dealer would not have spent the time flushing. Then to have a long discussion with mechanic about ac current and future prospects and full disclosure of his repair are worth every penny. We also discussed having him replace the plastic T's with a custom brass replacement. They are game to replace the Ts if I fabricate them to darrinsmith's specs which he posted here on renntech. Mechanic also believes that I have leakage past the spring clamps on engine coolant lines...another good conversation. #2 Great post by seafeye. That is an impressive technical bulletin. Spells out pretty much everything. Added overfilling 134a as another possible suspect in my catastrophic compressor failure. That document should get posted on its own special place for all Porsche owners to read. Thank you! John

Finally got my AC compressor fixed. I dropped it off at Imola in Minneapolis the evening before so they would have it for the day. I had to drive it home 200 miles the next day. Imola was a very good experience. They are open till 9 PM which is amazing. Everyone was exceptionally nice and very easy to communicate accurately which is a rare thing these days. Via e mail, phone and in person. They replaced the compressor, expansion valve and drier up front. There are three different ports that need to be flushed to do a decent job. There was a ton of crud that came out of my system. They flushed and flushed. The mechanic...Erick...came out when finished and we had a nice long talk. This Cayenne has rear AC meaning that there are more components buried deep which I hadn't thought about. We decided that replacing what we did and flushing the heck out of it was our best angle of attack. There may still be some crud caught in the rear components but should be minimal if any after his mega flush. Very much appreciated his effort. I bought this car and was told that it had a new ac compressor. Well it probably did after the old one h bombed into the system. They just slapped on a new compressor...no other components and no flush nor proper oil at each component. Imola warrants this one for 12 month and seeing as the compressor runs constant with a swash plate rather than a clutch....if its gonna blow due to remnant debris...it should do it fairly soon. I would recommend to anyone doing AC work to bring it in to someone who has the equipment. They finished my rig at 8 PM. It was not cheap but it wasn't that far out of line compared to simple compressor replace and recharge @ $1000 + each for a Honda Accord v6 and a Suburban 2500. We never did an autopsy on old compressor. No time.

I was laying underneath mine for about 30 min trying to figure out if I could band clamp my leaking line from above. I can almost get an arm up to the Ts from below but even if I could... no way to get a band clamp on and tight with one hand. Looking at it from below I realized that taking of the intake...getting at it from above and probably breaking a multitue of plastic and gasket, that I would have a heck of a time clamping it if at all. No room for screw driver at 90 degrees to plumbing. Would be nice if I could reach in from drivers side wheel well. The wheel well looks like layers and layers of trouble though. My line is leaking between the rubber to metal connect below the lower T. Also anyone know where these lines run to from the bottom T? They snake around the power steering pump then down the frame under the driver side and disappear.

Thanks for the trail of info on this. Thinking the pink stuff is not sealer but escaped Pentofrost. I have one that has turned into a pretty good leaker. I can see pink at most fittings clamps on both T's in back.

Thanks for your insight. I was about to post that I got a much better look tonight from below with both pans off. There are trace coolant leaks at both Ts but the more major of the leaks is from the second (lower) T where its hose connects to steel line. leading down. Was going to ask...how do I fix this since its not really broken. I think I wil try to fashion the brass T replacements that fellow from Perth posted recently..then dig into it and put brass in it and replace every clamp I can get at back there with screw clamp...or simply add a screw clamp over the flare. At least I know I am not in for a catastrophic coolant failure on this unless one of those Ts implodes...I must say thay look good and fresh but looks can be unreliable.

Darrin, Great post! I have a leak high in back on a rubber to metal line that I will probably have to get at by pulling the intake. When I go in I will do what you have done as well. Any idea what size the T brass? You guys metric so maybe tricky for U.S. local to get right size. I am assuming that you replaced the rubber as well since it was in little pieces. Thanks again, John

Got a couple of pics of AC compressor while looking for coolant leak. Think McBit nailed it on this one. Have the mid body connector that trails off to the rear. The weird thing is that I am able to spin by hand what would be a magnetic clutch in front of the pully. It looks like something catastrophic happened to the "clutch"...crack in the casting with oil and freon leaking out indicates that as well....darn thing sure spins nice though by hand.

Found the smell. Lot to be said for the pepto bismal coolant stalagmites. Followed the pepto trail drivers side. It's rubber down low then goes verticle on engine side of heat shield with multi bend metal lines. These lines run as a pair. Up high where it goes back to rubber from metal..it is leaking at a banjo clip and running down same metal line and dripping off where they go back to rubber. One line is leaking...not both. Can see it with an extended mirror from the bottom and the top but not great. Why would it leak here? Am I over pressured somewhere and this is the weak spot? The banjo clip seems to be where it is supposed to be. I can not see the hose that well but looks as though it is leaking rubber to metal unless there is a bad spot in rubber. Can't see it good enough to know. Newer to me cayenne. Had power steering line pop off at a metal rubber transition at a banjo clip when really cold this winter. Fixed it with a stainless hose clamp. This the same type of fix? Problem is how do I get at it? Also anyone know where these lines go to and come from? Can't tell if these are the notorious T's...does not look like it but hard to tell in the mirror. Been searching for a coolant system diagram and can not find one. Appreciated, John '04 Cayenne turbo 92,000 miles

Thanks for the great info....The link to the denso site shows on page 20 that at the very least there is serpentine belt protection if the compressor locks. A limiter breaks allowing the pully to spin free. That is in the diagram on a 7se unit. The diagram indicates that that model is not a clutched unit. In my search for a new compressor the next problem is what to put back in it? Both the Porsche dealer and the bigger Indy Porsche repair place both told me that the replacement is clutched. All of my searching on the net..mostly e bay...shows the 7seu17c to be a clutched unit. Now that leads me to question the control aspect. Also makes me queston the information on this unit for e bay which indicates this model works on all v8 and v6 cayennes '03 to '08 which I kinda doubt now. Voltages to operate the compressors must be different between a clutched and not clutched unit. Maybe Porsche senses which unit it controls. I am also guessing that the car needs to be programmed that the compressor / ac system has been replaced. As long as I can drive it down, I will have Imola. the indy Porsche repair in Minneapolis just put in what it needs....clean everything out and replace compressor, dryer and expansion...o rings. Reprogram. I will know what they put in for replacement and report back.

The cracked compressor in this '04 Cayenne turbo is Nippon Denso 7SEU17C. When I was in a local general auto shop we looked up porsche replacement parts for that vehicle and it stated that the replace compressor is clutched for 4.5 and for the v6. I was in a suburban at the time... not the Cayenne. I am going to bring Cayenne into that shop and have him take a look at the compressor and decide if it is clutched or not. The tag on the compressor is the Nippon Denso 7SEU17C. ND Oil 8 R134a. McBit500 post shows it should not be clutched. Then we are back at the point of potentially seizing the pump while driving 250 miles to a porsche shop. Managed to attach photo! The inch long crack to the left of the tag in the casing is the culpret. I will get a photo of the pump pully and post that too...later after I can pull off shrud and get a pic.

My other option is to order the compressor, drier and valve ...ship them to me and have a local shop install. They have not touched a porsche ever. They are good and are an independant shop and are friends of mine so I trust them. I tried to get a compressor from NAPA but it is a Porsche part and can't be had through them. Although it looks like it is still just an ac system and as long as I get parts...they pull out the old, stick in the new, flush all the crud out and evacuate system then refill with 134...it should work ...no? I would replace myself but I have no way of evacuating...vaccum system. Thoughts? Quick look through e bay and this compressor appears to also be used on Audi....What about the Touareg. I think I found some thing on the net that stated that a v6 cayenne did have a clutched compressor while the v8s were not clutched. Imola quoted me the compressor at $314 and install at $220 which I thought was really good as long as I could get it there...of course I need to add drier and valve to list so that will bring up the cost but still really not bad. How much difficulty labor wise is swapping out the drier and valve? Thanks, John

Guys, Thanks for the info here! This is not an arguement but a good discussion. The description of function out of the manual makes sense. Older tractors opperate somewhat similar with hydraulic pump. On My 68 4020 the hydraulic pump runs on standby pressure. Once a function (loader) is used the pressure drops from 1950 psi and the pump kicks on. On a Farmall 460 from the eraly 70's the pump always runs. My only problem is this...can I drive that Pepper 250 miles to get the compressor changed? If it is not clutched then it spins and with that PAG compressor oil leaked out..that would be a no. However two different Porsche repair shops told me I could drive it with econ button on. I will be driving through fairly remote and seriously populated with mosquitos terrain. Don't want a compressor seizure and then have to find and pay a flat bed tow to bring me the rest of the way. Another possible scenario is that the current compressor on my 04 turbo may not even the correct one for that car. It cracked the casting first time it was called to supply cold air and maybe it is clutched. Whoever did the repair obviously screwed it up...just how bad is yet to be determined. I will take some pics tonite and set the resolution lower and see if I can post them of the compressor pully, the crack and denso #s. I had posted pics before and it worked fine of power steering line the blew off in really cold weather. Again..shop manual function description very much appreciated as well as looking right at it while running on the lift witness. We ..or I have a conundrum and your help is appreciated! John

On a side note that may be entertaining, I had a '77 cutlass supreme in downtown Denver on Colfax ave just east of the capital building. Some of you may know what that area was like in those days. The expansion tank went off like a bomb under the hood. Scared the crap out of everyone on that block...but especially me cause I didn't know what it was for a while. This was in the early '80s.

Wish I could post a pic because the AC unit on this car looks like it has a clutch. 2004 cayenne turbo. When I got this truck I had a bit of a falling out with the seller because he represented himself as selling a car he owned but leased...turned out he bought at auction and resold. So Info on history is sketchy. I do have pretty good service records on it..just not complete. I do not have the record for the a/c replace but this fellow claimed that the a/c compressor had been replaced. It does look pretty new. We are up in northern Minnesota and the very first time (last week...been a very late spring) this a/c would have engaged freon it popped the casting. So something was / is screwed up. Unit in it now is a denso. My wife was driving when the service now light came on. I thought it was simply the service in 2500 miles telling us that those 2500 miles were up. Now I am thinking the car knows the compressor is toast. I turned the temp to low and pushed econ button off and waited to see if I could feel engine drag from engage and for cold air to blow. I also looked to see if the black protrusion in front of the A/C pully that I assume is the clutched part would spin. No spin in either econ on or off mode. Also no cold air. I called Carrosel porsche dealer in MSP and also Imola a semi indy. Both told me that I could drive it the 250 miles to the cities to have it repaired in econ mode. Imola told me that the Compressor was $314 and labor to replace is $220. I want to make sure I have a complete system so the advice on the drier and etc is much appreciated. The thing is if that compressor is spinning with the PAG oil leaked out of the crack it will seize unless it is not actually spinning. Does anyone have any experience with Imola in Wayzata (MSP) Minnesota? I would like to use them and for the most part their reviews are good with occasional POed customer. I know grains of salt need to be considered. Also saw a discussion on cooling fan. I had been hearing my fan run when it didn't seem that warm out or really necessary but that is guesswork. However, I did hear that fans should run as they do on my motorcycle after it has been shut off because they are electric. I have never had the fan run on cayenne after shut off.

Guys, Thanks for the info..much appreciated. I have not wrestled with an AC replace in any car as of yet. I know there are several components besides compressor. When I replace compressor do I need to replace the other associates as well? ie drier and etc. It appeared that the nose had to be pulled off truck to replace some of the ac stuff. I would rather not have to do those other parts but I also do not know what would make a compressor casting crack. Was or is it something related to other components in ac system...I have no idea? Also, I am not a wealthy dude. I took a crack at a cayenne as a gamble with 85 k on it. Always wanted one and don't ever gamble otherwise. So far I have had to endure some pricey clean up on this used rig but overall love it and think that the repairs should slow down. I do want to contribute to this web site because the information is invaluable from you guys. I do not want to be a cheap skate and would like to know what an appropriate donation should be. Did I mention I love driving this rig ..wife loves it too. And that is just for regular puttering around kind of stuff...I do have a litre class sport bike and have ridden for many years. I have yet to push the cayenne ...just kinda of felt its presence on occasion...and it feels good:]. Tried to upload 1.6 meg pic again...no go. BTW the AC unit is a denso Thanks for the ECON setting info too. That puts my mind at ease for driving it. Was thinking about unplugging the wire connector to the ac but was wondering how many computer error cyclones would be created if I did that.

Forgot to mention 04 Cayenne turbo. Darn...wont let me upload a 1.5 meg pic.

Found oil on floor....which lead to finding drips on lower shroud. Was thinking it was more power steering leak but fluid was green. Engine had not been run for 24 hours but was able to see bubbles on the casting of the AC unit. If it was not bubbling would never have seen the crack. Lucky it was not on top or on a side. What could lead to this casting crack? Can I order a replacement compressor and have a generc shop evacuate and refill with 134 after it is installed? What is the best course of action? I can not drive it to a dealer as I am over 200 miles away and I believe that when all of that PAG oil leakes out of the compressor it will seize. And thats a problem on vehicles with serpentine belts. I miss multiple belts as one can make it home by cutting the belt connected to a seized ac. I will probably be nominated to replace this ac unit...I see it appears to be kinda close to get at...difficult to remove / replace...any tips..advice appreciated. Trying to post pic but says it is oversized even though it is under 2 megs. Will try adding. Thx, John

Wanted to update this. Was as simple as a hose clamp. Apparently lots of vehicles up here have cold weather problems with viscosity of power steering fluid. Was instantly reccommended to use ps fluid that was more friendly in cold weather...explained that I couldn't due to porsche weirdness. Motherinlaws cadillac suv popped its ps line couple of days later. I have had to arm strong plenty of vehicles and am old enough to have had several vehicles with no power steering. Never were this difficult to steer without PS. That rack and pinion is very tough to move even with vehicle moving. Yes I know it is strongly frowned upon to drive without fluid in pump. But with 4 year old and -15 degrees and very rural...sometimes you need to just get home. That is what I need in a truck...one that gets you home.

Crud.....The line number is 22 with clamp # 23 NOT 17 and 18

Thank you for diagram. Pulled lower cover. Looked up in there to see hose 17 seperated from oil cooler at banjo 18. Banjo attached to rubber line. No apparent stress. Here is what happened: Drove car and everytning fine. Parked it for 2 hours in -15 degree weather. Started it and drove off. Discovered quickly that very hard to steer but could muscle it. (barely) Wife and four year old in car had to get it home. Drove it home 8 miles and got it in garage. Where it leaked a 24inch puddle. I floor dried the puddle. I restarted it next morning to listen for any pump noise heard none and watched it spin...quickly shut it off. Got call from owner of driveway that car was parked and was reported to have big oil dump. Had to leave town for almost 3 weeks. Now I am back trying to figure this out. Any reason that line 17 would seperate at clamp 18? I initially thought maybe water somewhere split a line. This looks more like the hose was pulled off the line. And the aluminum line to the cooler is lower and would have bulged or split just below the connection if water froze low in line. Now wondering if a pump or rack issue could possibly have caused anough pressure to pop the line appart. Looks like this is a return line from the oil cooler back to the fluid reservoir up by the battery jumper posts. Pic 850 shows the rubber line just as I found it off the silver hard line with the green mark. That hard line is the lower line off the oil cooler. Pic 847 shows the connector and line just as I found them. I used pliers on the clamp and slid rubber back on line to the mark and clamp reseated on the correct side of the flair. I have had armstrong power steering in my '76 dodge van with three on the tree. Once you get moving in vehicles without power steering they get much easier to steer which is why I know to always move some if doing any steering as its hard on everything including tires. This Cayenne was not easy to steer at any speed without power steering. Very difficult. Maybe that has a bearing on this line or not. Could I be lucky enough to get fluid tomorrow (if local NAPA or anyone actually has the stuff) and fill up and have everything work fine for 100,000 miles? I am 200 miles from Porsche so must do repairs like this on own. Need to find a manual. Or online manual. Advice on best way to get a manual? Thanks, John