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With the way the weather has been, I havent had a chance to pull the cams. But I picked up the engine flush and a caliper to measure the cams.
I added a video of the knock on youtube
i was thinking the oil from the cooler and lines were not drained and thus went into the new engine causing a oil passage to clog over time. Of course its also poss some metal or debree from being a new engine clogged the oil passage. I was thinking about it a lot last night and considering it slowly got worse over a few thousand miles, maybe with the lifter not pumping up and hitting against the cam, it slowly worn the lobe down. Then with the new lifters, I still had a worn cam. I'm getting the car back Saturday. I will try and take a video of the sound and post it. I'm thinking the next step is to use some engine flush, pull the cams, blow the oil passages out with air, and check the cams to make sure they are okay. I remember when the lifters were replaced, looking at the springs and head and everything looked good. No wear marks, springs felt strong. I'll first look at the plugs to make sure they are not loose.
nylewis posted a topic in 996 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Targa)About 3 years ago my 99 996 went bye bye due to the intermediate shaft bearing. I had a new engine from Porsche put in by a Porsche speed shop. After lets say 12K the engine started with a slight tick. Very hard to hear and would come and go once in a while. Over hundreds of miles it slowly got worse. It got more frequent and got louder to more of a very loud knock now. It's directly related to engine RMP and sounds like it's coming from the pass side. Now it's constant and loud. I had the lifters replaced on the pass side, now with 15K miles. No effect. No check engine light ever came on.I took it to the dealer. They said it sounds like it's the pass side top and they would charge me 5K to pull the engine and look at it! :mad: I told them no so they said they will call me back...:confused: I was going to just go pick up the car but I wanted to wait a day or so to see if they have an idea without ripping into the engine.One thing I noticed, the old engine had bad "coffee foam" in the oil. They prob didnt flush the system and all that crap went into the new engine. Is it poss that would clog an oil pass and cause a lifter not to pump up? And would a lifter not pumping up be that loud? When I get the car back I was going to take a video so I can post the sound.If it can be the oil pass, if you pull the cams, could you blow air in the oil pass?Any advise is more then welcome.
marcesp, that's what I thought the problem was. A lifter, a valve, etc. Something to do with 1 cylinder. I got my car back today and I talked to him about the problem. He is sticking to the broken shaft theory but that's based on finding aluminum in the oil, nothing else. Due to the tapping in sync with 1 cylinder, I'm still not convinced. I still believe a valve, lifter or spring is screwed causing some wear into the head which gives you the aluminum. I'll prob take it to a dealer when things settle and get a 2nd opinion, but for now I'm burnt. Just for everyones info whos looking into a new engine. He said list for the new engine is 9300. He could get it for 8300. The core charge is 2300 which you have to pay upfront until Porsche confirms the engine is usable. What "usable" is with a damaged engine is anyones guess. So "out the door" around 10K for him, 11K from a dealer.
Tool Pants, please ignore wvicary's post. I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion about a known problem and see if there is a solution. I don't know if a class action suit can or will be effective. I wanted to know if anyone has explored that avenue or just gave up and wrote a large check. I see no reason not to at least look into the possibility. We are not talking about some little problem here. The high price of the engine makes it more attractive to a firm.
To say class action suits dont work is just wrong. I was just involved in one for a Mustang. The dealer made cheap plastic manifolds and they cracked after several years. The firm got the dealer to install new manifolds or a check for $750 for another mechanic to do it. I was just going to provide a firm with a list of names and let them tell me if anything can be done. Are you saying Porsche can produce any product and not back it up and we have no recourse? It has been said that 5% of the engines go bad. You dont think that 1 in 20 cars have the engine blow is proof of something is wrong? Here is the link to the Ford lawsuit. http://www.fordmanifoldsettlement.com/index.html
nylewis replied to nylewis's topic in 996 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Targa)I had the car for over 1 year and never replaced the coolant. I dont know what the previous owner did. I did an oil change every 6 months even with only putting 4-5K on the car. If I get enough people, I'll forward the info to a firm and see what they say. Maybe a class action suit can be started. (see other topic)
Just to see what the cost would be, how many people would be in for a class action suit against Porsche for 996 engine failures? Please post your car year, miles and brief description of the problem. I will try and put a list together and forward it to a law firm and see what their response is. I found this firms link seaching around. If anyone has a better firm or any input, I'm all ears. http://www.schneiderwallace.com/PracticeAr...C&ovtac=PPC
nylewis replied to nylewis's topic in 996 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Targa)74K, not exactly "high" mileage for a car 8 years old. Plus its an auto so how much can it be beat on? If anyone is looking into a class action suit, I'm in. This is just retarded so many engines fail.
I had been having a loud tapping, sounds like drivers side, coming from my engine. It's in perfect sync with 1 cylinder so I really thought a lifter went bad. I took it to a garage that races Porsches and is well known to have them swap out the lifters. When they drained the oil, it was full of aluminum. An oil change was done less than 100 miles ago. They said they believe the balance shaft broke and basically I'm shafted and need a new engine. The thing I questioned is the tapping is in perfect sync with 1 cylinder and no CEL light. Not having the $$$ anytime soon, its just not an option. It's a 99 C4 nightmare. Has anyone had any recent quotes on remanufactured engines? I keep on hearing the prices went up. Prob due to all the engines blowing up. I can't believe Porsche just ignores such a problem and there isn't a class action suit yet. After my 91 c2 having the valve guide problem, my Boxster ticking time bomb, and now a 996 blowing up and being driven so lightly, this will be my last Porsche. That's 3 generations of cars with MAJOR engine problems. And I heard the 993's weren't good either. I think Porsche should have "engine replacement" at the 50K service interval as standard practice.
Thanks for everyone's input. I appreciate and respect it. The garage is well known and the mechanic I talked to, did work for the Porsche dealer down the road. They build and race Porsches. I did ask him several questions about parts and procedures to test his knowledge and he knew everything off the top of his head. He claims to have done several cars and after talking with him, I trust his skills. I have degreed cams before but never dohc. If it wasn't for that, I would do that work myself. I normally do EVERYTHING myself (painting, engine/trans rebuild) but I really don't want to "learn" on an engine this expensive. It's not just noisy lifters. You can hear it's only 1 or 2 and it's real loud. Changing to thicker oil won't help, it makes the noise when cold and fully warmed up and it's very cold here again so the oil is def in it's thickest state. I work for a living so I really don't want to shell out 2K in repairs but I don't see another option. I'm prob going to bring the car in the 15th, so I'll post on the 16th with how things went. OTT - my friend was just over to listen to the car and he was talking about adding a supercharger to his Boxster. He asked me why don't I just add one to my C4. I "made" a kit for my hobby car. I looked up and found they get 10K for a Vortech kit! That's totally insane. I started looking at adding a Vortech and the price prob would be less than 30% of that, only prob is I wouldn't be able to tune it. I would need a tuner and run 5-6 psi (due to the high compression) with either a aftercooler or better still, alky injection. I've used alky on a few cars and it works amazing. I had a car with 10.5 compression running 13 psi @ 1800rpms running on 93, zero pinging. But then I thought an exchange engine is a lot of $$$ so I'll leave the blowers to my other toys...but then again, you never know. B)
Well I just bought my car to a local garage that works on exotics. They have a couple of ex Porsche mechanics. They looked at the car and said it was the lifters and it's very common in my car. Because of the tiptronic, the bellhousing creates a shield that keeps the heat in. They said it's only a matter of time they fail but the new lifters have a better design that is supposed to not fail. They said the cams will have to be removed and the engine timed but everything can be done with the engine in the car. That was enough for me to hear to have them do the work. I don't want to mess around with timing the cams and they have done several cars. They said 1.5 days to do both sides. I ordered the lifters and got them for under $20 each. Labor is going to be around $1400!!! OUCH. So close to 2K in all. :cursing: Nice design Porsche. Just about as good as my 91 C2 that had a cover on the bottom of the engine causing the valve guides to go bad. Perhaps a Ford or Chevy mechanic could offer help in the engine design. <_< Just venting again.
Unfortunately no, I did the oil change (0-40 Mobil) and flushed the engine with 2 quarts of Gunk engine flush. We got a blast of warm weather (50) and I still have the same very loud tapping. Still no cel light and I ran codes and got nothing. I ordered a Manual to see the procedure for removing the cams. I'm hoping you can just mark the cams and reinstall. I found the lifters for $20 each so I would just replace all 12 on the pass side. gkrikori - my tapping got much worse very quickly. At first it was only at startup but I think that artic blast we got for a few weeks caused a lifter not to get oil to pump it up and as Viper stated, due to the limited commute (which I love) the car never really gets warmed up. Now it's prob toast. I should have the manual in a week or so and I'll let you know how I make out.
I picked up a couple quarts of motor flush. I figured it was designed for a 5 quart system. This weekend I'm going to drain out 2 quarts and add them. Then run the car at idle for 15-20, then do an oil change. I went with 0-40 because we are still in winter and no telling if we get another artic blast. Avg temp right now is 40. I saw lifters for $20 each and found a post of someone who replaced a valve spring with the engine still in the car. So if I have to go that route, at least there might be room. I looked at a cut away view of the engine. It looks like marking the cams and maybe taking 1 out at a time might be fine. I wont touch it unless I'm certain. I dont need a valve slamming into a piston. I might just purchased new lifters and have the dealer take care of it if they dont ask some insane price. I know, good luck. Maybe I'll get lucky with the motor flush and thinner oil. I am pretty discouraged in as this is my 4 Porsche and all of them had many problems. We put up with it and say things like "its only a RMS oil leak" cause we love the cars but it really seems Porsche can build performance and style, not reliability. To have lifters fail cause its 10 degrees out, give me a f****** break. I had this car for 4K miles/1 year and I already had the alarm just set off all the time, airbag light come on, run very ruff and throw a cel when it rains hard (all my 911's did this, WTF) and now the lifters. Of course its out of warranty. My other 3 were the same. At least my Boxster was under warranty but still had to put up with really stupid things like "doing the chop" what an incredible poor design, and driving an engine that everyone told me was a time bomb. We pay a lot of money for these cars and then Porsche doenst even admit their bad designs like the RMS. My friends Mustang had a bad designed manifold that would crack. It took a class action suit but at least Ford paid for a new manifold or if you already replaced it, gave you the cash. Sorry for the rant but I'm really thinking of this being my last Porsche and going with a company that backs their work.