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Upgraded to the latest and greatest LN Single to Dual row bearing, installed the lower temp thermostat as per your advice JFP! Cheers! At some point in the future may well consider the waterless coolant just for good measure - seems to be gaining quite a lot of positive traction (in the uk at least!) Opinions seem to vary quite a lot this side of the pond on various issues!
herogenous posted a topic in 996 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Targa)Hi everyone, I understand the done thing is to post some pics of your car! So here it is! For what it's worth, the help and advice here is superb and I'll be a contributing member just as soon as I've paid to my most recent indy-bill :huh: Hope you all have a lovely weekend!
Domiac, thanks! That's a very interesting read indeed. Judging hushed tones and sideways glances when oil starts getting mentioned.. I'm going to tread carefully! lol.. Two things strike me: 1. Sounds like we should all have oil pre-warmers which we turn on 30 mins before going anywhere ... Especially if it is actually the case that 90% of engine damage is done at start up! I know I'd use one - well, I would if it was remote operated over an IP connection from my iphone :-) 2. This suggests (I think.. and I am prone to getting things wrong) we should be adjusting our oil-type based on oil pressure readings at operating temperatures and certain rev ranges throughout our car's life. Eg. If our oil is up to temperature then at 3000 (or whatever) revs the pressure should be 3.5 bar (or whatever) if it is not, we should adjust our oil as the engine has changed with age. Does anyone actually do this? Even after reading this lengthy site.. I have to say, provided one is going to change the oil regularly it seems to make sense (to me at least) to use only 0W-XX oils and then whatever XX is required to get the oil viscosity right at operating temperature. I still can't really see why you wouldn't want the oil to be as thin as possible (and still actually too thick, in fact) at startup. (given the afore mentioned 90% thing).. Think I'll be sticking 0W-40 Mobile 1 back in mine.....imagine that. Anyway, not trying to cause controversy at all, just quite a fascinating, complex and clearly contraversial topic! Think I'll just go drive it! :-)
Thanks GromitlnWA, I think you're right. It certainly does seem to be a genuine concern here, certainly Hartech have done a LOT of research into the issue and lots of cars SEEM to be coming in with the same symptoms. It is very, very possible though that this is caused by rich London play-boys in the UK (without any understanding of cars at all), jumping in their Porsches in winter and ragging the nuts of them from cold and this is just weakest point of symptoms. Although one other factor could be that there is a LOT of stop-start traffic in the UK... I mean a LOT - could this be a contributing factor? Low revs, stop, start, stop, start.. Is there a rev count, below which lubrication is not happening properly? I suspect so. It wouldn't surprise me if cars spend a lot of time in the UK at 1500 or below in traffic. JFP, re journey cycles... absolutely! A few 2 minute trips to the shop in freezing temps every week just can't be good - maybe I need to emigrate! Or take my GF's car for those short trips! Actually JFP, I was going to post another thread on this but I think that's overkill. I don't know how au-fait you are with UK oil availability, but I'd be very greatful for your pick of the Porsche approved 5W-40 oils for my '02 C4S 70k miles 996! Thanks again guys, especially JFP for the lightening quick responses... this really is a top forum! Ps. On the waterless coolant... lots of conflicting opinions. Some say whilst water (in pure physics terms) is better at thermal transfer, the benefits of eliminating steaming and hot-spots actually outweighs this and keeps the car running cooler in general. Seems to me, like most of these things, nobody really has any definitive proof either-way and it's always mixed up with PR, marketing and endorsements. C'est la vie. As JFP points out, it's an expensive "upgrade" if there are no real benefits!
Excellent explanations of the downsides gents, many thanks! It doesn't get THAT cold here really maybe only a couple of degrees below in winter, so 5W-40 with JFP specs sounds good to me! Thanks, both!
Hi all, Done quite a bit of search here and elsewhere online but can't quite find a simple answer to this specific question and now very confused! Am I right in thinking 0W/40 and 5W/40 will have same operating temperature properties but that the 5W will be more viscous at lower temps (and hence not flow so quickly or lubricate as well when the engine is cold). If this is the case, why would you ever want to use the 5W instead of the 0W? That is, if the 0W lubricates better when cold, (but the same when hot) what is the upside to the 5W bit? I see lots of people are switching from 0W to 5W and not sure why... I feel I really must be missing something! Kudos for non brain hurting responses and apologies for anyone who is sick to death of oil convos.. They seem to generate quite a lot of controversy from what I've read! Whilst we're at it..... what should I put in my 2002 C4S with 70K on the clock... I'm in the UK - going into winter! My local indy recommended 5W/30 but LN site says NO WAY... Totally lost - help a newb!
Cheers Dave and thanks again JFP - Sorry I missed the part num in your first post!. Great info - especially the secret hack! Any concern about oil viscosity changes running at a lower temp or are the differences too marginal to notice? (I suspect so!)
Thanks chaps! Seems like quite a divisive issue amongst even experienced engine folk! JFP, I like the lower temp thermo option - is there a downside?... Is the thermostat change a diy job (for a reasonably engine minded person) and is there a specific part one should look for? Cheers for humouring my newb qu's!
Hi Everyone, Newb alert - apologies if this is all nonsense! Like a little enthusiatic (and paranoid) first-porsche owning bunny (and in order to try and best keep my recently purchase 996 C4S alive as long as possible) I've been trying to do as much research here and elsewhere on the more common engine health issues. It seems (to a newb like me at least) that the second most prevalent issue is one of bore scoring and oval pistons in the larger 3.6 engines (only). This article explains the problem in great, great, detail (albeit in a very, very long format! - 72 Pages!) http://www.hartech.org/docs/buyers%20guide%20web%20format%20Jan%202012%20part%205.pdf The short version of it (in THIS guy's opinion at least) is that a series of differences / inefficiences / changes / hot spots - localised boiling points in engine cooling and oil flow on the 3.6, particularly on the thrust-side of bank 2 cylinders, a higher cylinder wall pressure due to shorter con-rods in combination with bad driving habits and a few other factors all combine to create this problem. Obviously, taking any one opinion would be very bad form, so I thought I'd see if anyone more mechanically minded than me had any thoughts on this? Furthermore, I have been pointed by a few people in the direction of this stuff as a generally good idea for the health of your car and specifically as part of a preventative measure for the issues mentioned above. http://evanscoolants.co.uk/ The claims and logic seem rather impressive and has apparently been picked up by Honda and is now going into a lot of endurance racing engines etc. The benefits of a non electrically conductive, non oxidising, non boiling, low-expansion, non hot-spotting, low pressure coolant do seem very sensible on the surface, but I may just be lured by the claims. Has anyone had any experience with it? Should I avoid it like the plague and stick to good old fashioned water derivatives? I do very much like the idea of taking water out of the equation which presumably should really help radiator issues and many other forms of degradation? Many thanks in advance for your help and opinions! Andy
Thanks JFP.. I guess purpose built has got to be better really! Thanks for your patience with the newb q's - I think I'm on about 24 hours of solid google research now... my brain has melted.. hope the engine doesn't! :thankyou:
Thanks Gordon, rapidly coming to the same conclusion! Think my real worry was how soon to act (ie spend!) I suppose it's such a big-deal to Porsche newbies and an incredible irritation to old-hats :-)
Thanks for the great and detailed answer JFP! I can see this issue is a very contentious one. BTW I have no interest in p***ing people off whatsoever, it's more just of academic interest really. I did a philosophy degree, :-) ....
Thanks for the answers guys and sorry to bore everyone else to tears with what must be a done-to-death topic. If anyone is interested, I called around a few specialist Porsche independents this am, finally speaking to two really, really nice and helpful chaps. One called Ollie from rpmtechnik and another called Simon from Cavendish Porsche, both really knew their stuff. Both of them do the IMSB replacement work so could have easily scare-mongered me into panicking. Ollie said he's been working on Porsches for 10 years and could count on one hand the number of IMS bearings actually collapsed and both said they were almost always on low-mileage cars. Simon said he's been working on Porsches for 30 years and had seen 3 actually collapse. He also said, bore-scoring is MUCH more of an issue on the 996 that we should worry about, with repairs coming in at 4-5k and quite a lot of them, at that. Simon's attitude was basically, don't worry about it (IMS), but if you're having your clutch done maybe look into getting it done for peace of mind. The leak is much more likely to be from RMS or even if it is from IMS (seal) it does not mean that you are likely about to have catastrophic IMS failure, also, the case bolts can leak down the threads etc. To be fair, I've never owned a 12 year old car that didn't seap a bit from somewhere! Also, and very interestingly, Cavendish have stopped using LN IMS Bearings and sourced a much cheaper and "apparently" better swiss made alternative, which, to be clear, he wasn't hard selling me at all. If anything, he was suggesting that preventative measure for bore-scoring were much more important. Furthermore and do NOT quote me - ALLEGEDLY LN has been taken to court for two cases of their bearings collapsing?! (could just be hear-say) - I'm NOT stating that as fact, whatsoever. I think, reading between the lines, the general feeling was that this was a hugely, hugely overhyped phenomenon - for *whatever* reason. There was also a suggestion that a car at 70k miles or so was probably out of the "danger zone"... I'm gonna get it done, if anything, to help me sell the car one day, but won't put the car on a back of a truck to get it there! For anyone who's interested in the bore-scoring stuff "Waterless coolant" seems to be the magic ingredient. I suspect everyone already has this stuff and I'm preaching to the converted! Hope this is of some use to somebody! Cheers Andy
Hi Everyone, My name is Andy, based in Swansea, South Wales, UK. Having just bought my first Porsche (an '02 C4S) with 70K on the clock - I have been googling my little socks off looking at all things 996! I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this car - never owned anything that goes round corners like it... the downside is, it keeps me lying awake worrying about it - but I think that's the usual new car paranoia, which will settle down! Having found loads and loads of excellent posts written on this forum I decided to sign up, say hi and hopefully pick a few brains! Currently, I am making myself extremely paranoid about the whole IMS issue! The reason for this is there is a little bit of oil at the base of the engine (eg the normal IMS / RMS leaky bit - according to images on the web). The leak is VERY, VERY slow (more just damp) and is not dripping or anything (have wiped, driven and nothing much more coming back down). The question I have is this. There seems to be some discrepancy in information regarding leaks in this area. Some people seem to be suggesting that leaks in this area are NOT related to internal (eg potentially catastrophic) IMS issues as the "problem" bearing is actually sealed inside the engine behind the outer seal and therefore leaks from the outer seal are not relevant, they are just that, leaks from the outer seal and cause no damage, just irritation - and possibly the owner paying a bit more attention to oil levels! Others seem to suggest that vibration caused by wear to the internal bearing cause the outer seal to leak, and therefore one SHOULD be worried. Can anyone provide any clarification on this, should I panic / stop driving / do an oil change and check for metal / jump out the window / drive it like I stole it? In short, I don't want to waste a load of money if not necessary - are there any rules of thumb? Incidentally, I'm not worried if it's just a very slow oil-leak from a seal I can deal with that in due course! I'm sure this topic has been gone-over ad nauseum, so apologies, but can't seem to find definitive answers! (maybe because they don't exist!) Best regards, all - and thanks! Andy