ttocs

Update on the Tiptronic After several fluid changes and putting on lots of fun miles, here's what I've witnessed. The shift from 1st to 2nd is consistently at about 6800 rpm; from 2nd to 3rd at 7050 rpm. I've now driven other same era Tips and they shift the same, as well as viewing the few videos showing the tach and demonstrating that they also shift the same. My conclusion on this is that the shift point going into 2nd at about 6800 rpm is normal, and the fact that my Tip shifted at and sometimes above the 7200 rpm redline prior to changing the 11 year old fluid was Abby Normal (abnormal, Young Frankenstein). The "little squeak" sound that is heard when converter lockup occurs after starting from a stop in 2nd and accelerating normally is now very quiet and often can't be heard. Thanks to all for your input.

I've been trying to find info and reviews of this product and can only find listings of this brand's struts for sale. I don't find any reviews. Then I found their web site, . . . the last update on their site was 2013. I wouldn't have any confidence in purchasing a product made by this company. Buying used lower miles struts is probably a better way to go.

He's usually found at Charlie's Bar having a beverage with Elwood P. Dowd. (Jimmy Stewart, Movie: Harvey (1950) ) Seriously though, I don't know what year yours is, but on my 2004 with a CDR23 I believe that the rear speaker setup is an option that connects to the amp as-is. The dash mids/tweeters and the door woofers are the front channels, and the rear channels go to the storage box speakers.

2004 986 Tiptronic 2.7 Beautiful day today and towards the end I decided to try something I haven't done very much. There are some stop lights on the highway near where I live and being first in line, wanted to do a little brake torque start on the green light. The Tip was in Manual mode, which is how I normally drive it, and was in first gear. I held the rpm at about 1500 for a second then simultaneously released the brake and pushed the throttle to the floor. Normally the computer will shift from first to second at a little over 6700 rpm (as logged by Durametric), but this time was very different! It shifted somewhere around 5200 or so - it took me by surprise so I'm not 100% sure - and really powered into second with a lot more oomph, then it felt like the engine had a lot more power than normal and revved more quickly than normal and then shifted early into third. The car felt quite a bit quicker 0-60 than I'm used to. So my question is - what happened? Did the torque converter not lock at all through second gear allowing more revs per mph than what it would be when locked? Did the brake torque put the system into some kind of launch mode that changed engine mapping for increased power? (Doubtful) Was a UFO using a tractor beam to pull me along? (Also doubtful, but I wasn't looking up so . . . )

Connected the CDR-23, cleared faults, checked faults - NO FAULTS! Total distance was still at 1966 before drive. After driving 5.4 miles, the Total Distance reported is now 2171. That translates into 205km or 127 miles! Still no faults. So now the most pressing question I have is: Where does the Cluster get the Total Distance info from? (and yes, I know that's grammatically incorrect, but I started life in a far south side suburb of Chicago) Could this info be coming from a connection on the Tiptronic trans? Wherever it's coming from, could it simply be a loose connection?

I'll see if I can accomplish that. I told the installer (high end, been in business since the 1940's) to not cut any wires so I'll have to see if they listened. One wire was to go to the shifter for a lockout when using Nav, the tech asked if I wanted to cut the radio's wire going to the shifter because he's not allowed to do it, I did. I just don't know if that wire had already been connected, or if I was only cutting the wire in more of a ceremonial way. I'll find out soon.

So this is weird . . . When I first got the Durametric I did some testing and got a couple faults, this was after I disconnected the battery and reset the throttle. One fault was Tiptronic 53 P1704 Kick-down switch, which I cleared and it hasn't returned. I'm thinking this was related to battery/reset. The other fault is in Instrument Cluster K21 9114 PCM control unit. I disregarded this as being related to the fact that I have replaced the stock audio system with aftermarket head and amp. But now this . . . I checked the Total Distance again today and it's "lower" than it was before. On 2/18 it was 5473. On 3/3 it was 6215, a bit high - I don't think I drove that far - but plausible. Today it is 1966 !! Maybe something is up with the PCM that I should be looking into? And could this cause or be caused by other issues? I have tried to clear the fault but it remains, and when I do I get a myriad of other faults that show up like this example: E383 Unknown fault code, please tell us about this missing information by clicking here Out of about 37 entries there are a bunch that are repeated entries. When I back out of that screen and go back to current fault codes it only lists the 9114 code. I'm clueless on this. Also, since this isn't related to my original post, should I be putting this elsewhere on the site? . . . or maybe it "is" related? not sure. It may be interesting to note that the radio install was October 1st, and the mechanical services were started a week later, so could there be something electrical going on here that may have been caused by the radio install that affected the Tiptronic operation?

Gravel and stone bits on the roads, trees turning to stone, makes me "petrified" to drive through there!!

That's good info JFP. Yes, I've noticed that my speedo is a couple mph wrong on the safety side - when it reads 60, the car is really going 58. I've read that this is pretty standard on Porsches. I'm not questioning the actual miles, or the run hours, I'm just curious about the low km number in the DME. Also, the air bag has more hours on it than anything else. I assume that this is electrical "on" hours and not necessarily while the engine is running. The hours on everything looks ok to me. Still, it's just curious why there would be that low number in the Cluster. The car has no signs of any accident whatsoever. The only item that I would suspect has had some work done on it is the front trunk lid, and that's only due to it missing the Options Sticker, and the fact that the paint on the underside of it is not shiny like other Boxsters I've seen. The lid currently has many touched up chips so I assumed that when it lived in Pennsylvania it must've seen a lot of grit so maybe it was repainted once. The windshield glass is very pitted as well. The paint is weakest part of the whole car, so that's what will be improved this year. Now that I've fixed a bunch of things that I would've done on any Boxster I looked at, the car is in very good mechanical condition! Some bushings will need to be replaced soon, but nothing is in dire need at this time, they just look a bit tired from age - like me.

So then is the DME Distance multiplied by 10? Because my mileage is 32k, not 3.8k. It seems logical if there is a multiplier involved. Thanks JFP for the info that the DME should've been included. I'm kinda surprised they didn't give it to me. I'll contact them to see if there's a record of it. edit: The dealer did give me the checklist for the PPI, as well as a list of imminently recommended maintenance.

The current info:: The odometer reads: 32,571 miles The Instrument Cluster K21 reads: Total distance 6215 Operating hours counter 1126.2 There wasn't much history on the car except for CarFax, and the limited info I got from the PPI which did not include DME info. What'cha think??

Through exhaustive searching everywhere, I've gleaned some info on the operation Tiptronic transmissions. Unfortunately, not much is iron clad information because Porsche doesn't let much out so there's a lot of reading between the lines. For example, in a press release for the 2005 911 S Porsche stated: "Instead of making the first-second shift at 6900 rpm under full power acceleration, Tiptronic S now holds first gear until the engine achieves 7200 rpm." Making a small leap, this tells me that the Tip in my car should shift at 6900, and not higher - but it was shifting at a higher rpm and I've got the DME info showing 2581 Range 1 ingnitions. I don't know if the previous owner programmed it to do it, or if the 12 year old fluid was allowing it to happen, or because the engine wasn't running as well as it is now was affecting the data the Tip uses to determine when to shift. Either way, I now know that 6900 is the target so now it looks like my Tip isn't so far off from being "normal". 　 I spoke to my mechanic, and the outcome of the conversation is that he spec'd the VW fluid, but his supplier gives him something that "meets that spec" but is NOT the VW fluid. So that's why the fluid is red and not amber. I don't understand why, with all of the info out there that these transmissions are soooo touchy, why someone would not use the fluid that's supposed to be used! When I dropped off the car I requested that "the proper fluid be used" and I was expecting to pay the Porsche pricing for it. He did say that he would do whatever it took to exchange the fluid, but I want to do it myself so I know exactly what is going on. 　 I'm going to put some miles on the fluid in there now and drain/fill a couple more times. So far I've done this twice, and the Tip has responded well. The upshifts are more solid and firmer, it holds first gear to a higher rpm, the downshifts in D initiate at a higher rpm and - again - more solid, and I can actually shift into first with no complaint when I make a sharp turn at this one intersection I go through often! 　 Now I just need to get informed on something I posted in the Durametric section re "Total Distance" that doesn't seem to match my odometer . . .

My 2004 986 has 32,571 miles on the odometer. It had 29,861 miles on it when I bought it. Durametric reports the following info: Instrument Cluster K21 Information VIN WP0CA29874U62**** Total distance 6215 Bosch Digital Motor Electronics Motronic 7.8 Information Number of ignitions range 1 2581 / 1104.8h Number of ignitions range 2 0 / 0h Operating hours counter 1126.2 Vehicle Identification Number WP0CA29874U62**** Data version 0041610046303404 Type ID DME control unit __986US31 Order type 986310 Country code C2 Transmission type - :) Transmission number A8605 Interior equipment AA Doing the math on the hours gets 29mph. But the instrument cluster "Total Distance 6215" converts to only 3,861 miles. I've driven the car 2,710 miles since purchase. That leaves a difference of 1,151 miles. Does all this mean that something in the instrument cluster was changed? Or, what does this mean?

It's the part that fits into the holes that make bars safe to use. What sets Liftbars apart is the rounded ends that allow them to twist atop jack stands while the cars tilts during a lift, and the extended flanges that "capture" the jack stand head. I've now used my Liftbars a few times and it only takes about two minutes to raise my car. The first side to get lifted sits atop my shorter 2 ton stands, then the second side gets lifted up to the minimum height of my 6 ton stands, then the first side gets raised again to set on top of another pair of 6 ton stands. From there, raise higher as needed, but the 6 ton minimum height is my safety valve. I've found that a 20" is my Goldilocks height, not too high - not too low.

Good to know. Thanks for confirming.

Today I drained and filled the Tiptronic with Pentosin ATF1. I used a little under 5 liters which includes the small amount that dribbled out during the process. I have not measured how much was drained out yet. I installed the fill plug when the temperature on the pan measured between 85f to 95f depending on where I pointed the laser. I think Durametric is supposed to be able to give a temp reading, but so far I haven't found it. Differences: Previously the highest rpm in first gear I measured was 6679 rpm, using Durametric. Now the highest is 6812 rpm. That's a difference of 133 rpm. I'll test more this weekend. Shifts seem more firm. Could be mental, not sure yet. While at a stop, in 2nd gear, shifting into 1st used to be a hard "thump". Now it's a barely noticeable soft bump, very slight bump, if I wasn't looking for it I wouldn't even notice. While traveling about 10mph in 2nd gear, shifting into 1st was a no no! It was harsh and the car would lurch. Now it's smooth and it "just happens" with no complaint. (I've only done this to see what would happen, I've only ever done this a few times.) When starting in a normal manner from a stop, in 2nd gear, when the torque converter locked up I would hear a mid frequency squeak. Now I don't hear it! This weekend I'll remove the carpet on the engine cover to elicit a bit more volume from the engine/trans. Without yet knowing the difference in fluid level (which I hope to figure out this weekend) I can't be sure these differences are due to incorrect fluid and incorrect level, or just incorrect fluid. I'm going to do at least one more drain and fill in another week or so. A friend with a 2003 tip reported that his shifts at about 6600 rpm (visual) in 1st. I'd be very interested in more reports of what rpm 1st gear shifts at in other peoples' 986 tiptronics.

Hopefully, over time, the top will settle enough that the clamshell doesn't touch it when in the down position. When I bought mine last August I knew that the car had been sitting for most of a year and initially the top and clamshell wouldn't settle right away, but would after a few driving miles. In your photos it looked like a bigger problem than mine was, so it's good news that it's following along the same path as I experienced. When I saw your post yesterday I was thinking it was a popped rod with the plastic ball joint on the end, or something was bent, but not being experienced enough I was waiting for someone else to chime in. There's a lot of very knowledgeable folks on this site.

I chickened out on drilling an inspection hole under the drain plug for now, maybe before I reinstall the trans shield. For tonight I just put the car on my new, great! Liftbars, and dropped the trans shield. Tomorrow or Thursday night I'll drain and fill. Re the shift point in first, it was definitely above 7000 rpm. Another theory could be that the old fluid was 11 years old and could have changed the shift point from lower to higher - assuming Porsche designed it to shift at a lower rpm and that the shift point could change with aging fluid. In the manual it shows a rpm to speed graph and the lines all follow all the way to 7200 rpm. It's not proof, but to me it would support an argument for shifting at redline. All I know for sure is that I don't know.

Mine does not currently have a service hole to access the drain, only for the fill. But I will follow your example and cut a hole for drain access. The exact shift point reported by Durametric is consistently about 6670, plus or minus, in first gear only. In second it shifts at 7050. I don't have any corroboration on it shifting at redline prior to service other than my memory. It may not have happened exactly at redline, but it was at least mighty close in both first and second. I still wonder if there is any form of shift point programming that might have been lost by doing the service. (I'm getting ahead of a detached diagnosis by thinking this, but . . . like the Beatles said "I can't stop my brain"). My gut tells me a lot of things, sometimes I listen, and this time it's saying circumstantial evidence points to - wrong fluid leading to improper operation.

Thank you crwarren11 for your response. I bought the Boxster last August with less than 30,000 miles on it and my assumption has been that the trans had never been serviced, so my gut tells me that the red fluid is new. I'm going to quiz the mechanic about this, but I want to switch out the fluid myself so I know what's been done. Also, I like your idea to let the fluids separate in clear containers! Very good idea! Simple too.

Ok, I'm confused. My Indy said they used G052162A2 fluid when they serviced my tip. I confirmed with my local Porsche dealer that this is the Audi/Volkswagen part number that should be used in my car, 2004 Boxster base. Porsche also told me to buy it from Audi (their sister dealership next door), and that this is what they would use for servicing my car if I had them do it. Pentosin's ATF1 data sheet says that G052162A2 is the VW/Audi OE number. This fluid is listed as being Amber & Clear in color. I purchased Pentosin ATF1 in a 5 liter container. Here's my concern: I was all set to check the fluid level and top off if needed. When I opened the fill plug, the fluid that came out is Red & Clear! The Pentosin ATF1 I bought is Amber & Clear (as is G052162A2) as expected. Now what do I do?? I'm concerned with mixing the amber with the red. Questions: Is the factory fluid red? or amber? If amber, then maybe someone had done a trans service and used an incorrect fluid ?? Or my indy lied. edit: I just checked Pentosin site and found that they make at least two different ATF1 fluids. One is ATF1 and is Amber & Clear, the other is "ATF1 LV" and is "Red & Clear" and is only for Mercedes, and is a lower viscosity. So maybe my indy's mechanic used Pentosin labeled container and chose the wrong version of ATF1 (instead of using the VW/Audi labeled) ??? Should I go through a process of exchanging the fluid - drain/fill, run, drain/fill, run, drain/fill, done - to get the fluid to a mostly known condition? If yes, should the filter be changed? It only has 1500 miles on it. Thanks in advance, Scott

These are very simple, elegant, stable, and look like they're very quick to use. Very good idea! I figure these are meant to be used for the height that they are, but, is there a company approved method of blocking underneath for extra height?

I just ordered Lift Bars today! They're exactly what I've been searching for.

I'll pickup some Pentosin this week. Next weekend I'm gonna check the fluid level and proceed based on what that shows.

Well your recommendation is certainly easy and non-invasive enough to try! I'll give it a go. If the issue persists my next thought is to "drain and fill and run the car" a couple times to "flush" the fluid using Pentosin or ZF. If I would've known better at the time I would have insisted on using the Porsche recommended fluid - cost of the fluid is not a consideration to me on this service - I was simply ignorant of the facts. Ok, I disconnected the battery, reconnected it about 1-1/2 hours later. Reset the throttle position by turning the key to the ON position, no start, waited a minute and turned to OFF, waited 10 seconds, started car. The engine was only slightly rough initially, then settled a bit. After the car warmed up for a while, I drove off. In Drive mode I could feel the system trying to figure out things like what to do on a half throttle kick, starting with 3/4 and full throttle from a stop, etc. The first time I floored it while going about 25mph it downshifted - then paused . . . for several seconds . . . then realized I really wanted full acceleration and downshifted again to first and zoomed away. That only happened the one time. I drove the car then parked it several times today, but the only drive I experienced things changing was the first drive. FWIW I usually drive in Manual mode, I used Drive mode just to see what would happen. Engine performance was what I'm used to within minutes of initially driving out of my driveway. The only learning I noticed was the throttle position stuff. At full throttle the tiptronic shifts from 1st to 2nd at 6600 rpm, consistently, and from 2nd to 3rd at 7000 rpm, I checked this in both D and M. So no change from before battery disconnect to after reconnect and throttle reset. So the next step is to check the trans fluid level next weekend. I've ordered a Enthusiast kit from Durametric which should arrive mid week. I didn't order it to solve this issue but if what it can show is all else is normal, that would be interesting to me. Can the Durametric show anything about the tiptronic?