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I have an email and call into Scott and Dan - I knew they were working on it, just wanted to document any / all information on 997.2 options. 5. Alignment. I understand from Mike here that with the new lower suspension we can get upwards of -1.4 degrees of camber. Not enough for track, but much better than the old suspension that maxed out at about -0.8 degrees. Will have to add GT3 control arms to get to -2.5 or so. 6. The new wheels look great and I'm guessing they are pretty light. Still have my 19x8.5 / 19x11 Volks with Cups and 18x9 / 18x12 Fikses with Hoosiers as my wheel / tire choices. Will have to see if the new stiffer and lower suspension likes 18s or 19s better. A few I've gathered... Stock PNA-911--021-09 2009 911 Technical Introduction $17.50 Has all sorts of technical information. This price at Carlson, more at Suncoast. Shows things like the Spring Rates: PASM = 188 lbs front 320 rear spring rate (N/mm * 5.710143 = lb/in). PASM Sport = 206 front 371-543 progressive rear. Sway up front is the same (24x3.8mm), but rear on Sport is actually thinner (18.5x2.5 vs. 19.6x2.6). That's interesting because Porsche writes that the sways are stiffer, so I wonder... Then again, look at how much more spring rate is at the rear. I've learned we won't be needing the X51 3rd radiator. These 2009s run much cooler as the water pump is now external to the engine and has a 20% great capacity. Those that have run the 09 on the track report it stays nice and cool.
Order goes in tomorrow (C2S, Silver, Sport PASM / LSD, Heated Sport Seats, Fire Extinguisher, black dials, no badge, carpet mats), so I want to start a thread outlining the typical "DE oriented" specifications / updates. I understand the 2009 Sport PASM / LSD springs are shorter and stiffer, which is a good thing. Also that the valving / software is updated based on what Porsche learned from PASM 1, the GT3, and the latest GT2 suspensions. That's also good thing. The sways are thicker, but does anyone have any specification on them and is it possible the fronts are adjustable? I'm guessing not. Any idea if GT3 sways are a direct fit (they weren't in the 2007 as new drop links were needed). I'm going to stick with stock for a while, but this thread may be a good place to collect this information for everyone. Here are some updates / mods: 1. Software. Doesn't look like anyone lists software yet for the 2009 DFI engines. Any information on possible gains, product development time lines, etc.? 2. Exhaust. I saw some posts and it looks like many more options than ever before in a 997 - almost like my 964 was. Primary or secondary bypass. In my 2007 C2S, the best-for-me combination was X51 headers, 200 cell, and stock mufflers along with Softronic. Sounded great, gave a little more performance. I'm guessing sound levels of the secondary bypass is going to be high. I once had a full aftermarket header / cat / muffler system, but removed it as it was just too loud for around town. Thoughts / observations from those that have seen / heard the various options? 3. Intake. I tried an alternative intake on my 2007 and sent it back. Was not happy with it and remain concerned about oiled filters (had a fouled MAF in the past on a pre-oiled filter). The dyno charts are promising - anyone have data on a combination of intake and exhaust? Right now I'm leaning toward a primary bypass and intake and would be interested to know what that combination produces for gains. 4. Brake pads - I used to run Yellow 29s up front and Black 14s at the back due to the brake bias. Anyone know how the 2009 with Sport PASM suspension / LSD and PSM's Brake assist and brake system pre-filling. Wondering if the bias is more neutral where you'd get Yellows all around or stick with the Yellow / Black combination? If Bias is improved,then maybe Yellow 29s or PFC 97s all around will be optimal. 5. Alignment. I understand with the new lower suspension we can get upwards of -1.4 degrees of camber. Not enough for track, but much better than the old suspension that maxed out at about -0.8 degrees. Will have to add GT3 control arms to get to -2.5 or so. 6. The new wheels look great and I'm guessing they are pretty light. Still have my 19x8.5 / 19x11 Volks with Cups and 18x9 / 18x12 Fikses with Hoosiers as my wheel / tire choices. Will have to see if the new stiffer and lower suspension likes 18s or 19s better. Thanks!
Here's the expanded version of the PCNA bulletin. I wouldn't do it... October 15, 2008. Technical Information Service 36/08 ENU 1360 1 GT3 Engine: Flywheel and Pulley Vehicle Type: 911 GT3 (997) Model Year: As of 2007 Concerns: Flywheel and pulley Information: Replacing dual-mass flywheel with single-mass flywheel. We have discovered that the dual-mass flywheel, which is installed as standard in the GT3 engine (vehicle type 997810/-811), is being replaced in the dealer organization with the single-mass flywheel from the GT3 RS engine (vehicle type 997850/-851). Information Due to an increasing number of reported faults, we expressly wish to point out that the installation of the single-mass flywheel (from the GT3 RS) in the GT3 engine is not approved by Porsche. Since the 911 GT3 (997) engine application is designed for the dual-mass flywheel, conversion to the single-mass flywheel results in the following problems and consequences: • The single-mass flywheel causes fluctuations and vibration in the lower rpm range, thereby reducing the smooth-running performance of the engine. • The crankshaft is subjected to one-sided loading, causing stress peaks that can result in damage to the crankshaft. • The one-sided loading of the crankshaft can cause the pulley to come loose, resulting in damage to the belt drive and engine. • Any damage relating to conversion or damage that can be attributed to conversion is not covered under warranty. Please advise your customers of this information accordingly. ©Porsche Cars North America, Inc. October 15, 2008
Discovered the blues don't come in GT3 sizes... Only OEM, Black 14, Blue RS5 (new and very race oriented), Yellow 19 and 29. So, not much to pick from to try something "in between". Wondering now about other pad makers...
First off, I did a search and read every post in 997 and 996 GT3 regarding brake pads. Didn't find a detailed answer, so here goes... I've run all sorts of brake pads on my cars... PFC 97s, 01s, Pagid Oranges, Blacks 14s, and Yellow 29s. Not to mention OEM for 997S and GT3. I'm looking for a pad that's "better" than the 997 GT3 OEM but quieter on the street than the Blacks or Yellows (RS29s). I don't like the Oranges whatsoever. I know, the 29s I have on the car now are the ultimate for track driving, but they are pretty bad for the street where I put on half my miles (noise, dust, etc.). I'll sacrifice some track capability to get rid of that school bus squeal. I know, I can continually bed them, but where I live that's not so easy, safe, or convenient. So, there's Pagid Black 4-2-1 (is this OEM compound?) and Pagid Blue 4-2 that may be worth trying, but I'd rather not before asking the group. Has anyone confirmed the actual compound of the OEM pad? Has anyone tried the Blues? By the way, here's some data I found: Black 4-2-1: A very stable material with low disc wear. It has a wide operating range with good low temperature performance and low brake noise. Fitted as original equipment on many high performance road vehicles, this is the best all round pad for road use. Friction Level Cold 0.36 At 100°C 0.38 At 300°C 0.42 Max 0.45 @ 500°C Constant working temperature 300 - 500°C Max temperature for short period only 550°C Blue 4-2: The most popular material, (known as 'Pagid Blue'), RS4-2 gives a good low temperature response. It is very stable, with superior modulation and feel. RS4-2 has a medium co-efficient of friction with good pad and disc life. Suitable for many applications especially gravel rally and wet tarmac, where control is needed. Friction Level Cold 0.40 At 100°C 0.42 At 300°C 0.43 Max 0.46 @ 550°C Constant working temperature 350 - 600°C Max temperature for short period only 650°C Thanks!
If it were me, I'd get a JIC coil over set for a base 997 without PASM. Fantastic suspension that has 15 adjustments on dampening and threaded body for lowering to just the height you want. I have a JIC on my 964 and it's wonderful.
RonCT replied to PAULSPEED's topic in 997-1 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 2S, Carrera 4S)We tried to get an OEM GT3 rear sway to fit my 997S and it would not. So we went with H&R and GT3 front, which required new drop links. Trying to figure out if the stiffer H&R sway is contributing to the back end moving around left / right during hard braking and cornering...
RonCT replied to donlycan's topic in 997-1 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 2S, Carrera 4S)I would not use lowering springs with PASM as the shocks are not designed to work with them. You would be compressing the shock at all times to lower the height. I've heard of several people that have blown their PASM shocks by doing this. PSS9 or 10 would mean you would lose PASM and you'd also have to trick the system by turning off PASM in the ECU else have warning lights and beeps. Damptronics is a different animal - it's pretty much an updated PASM shock with variable electronic adjustment (vs. only 9 or 10 settings). I just had Damptronics put on my car for 50/50 track and street use and there are issues. The front makes all sorts of creak, groan, and sproing noises which I find totally unacceptable. My tuner is trying to find out how to resolve this. Next is that the system is so stiff that in hard braking on uneven surfaces (ie: Main Straight Braking Zone at Lime Rock), the rear end skips around and so braking potential is limited. With OEM suspension I was able to log about 1.4 G braking there and the rear end was planted. With Damptronics, I was limited to 1 G braking with the rear end moving so much I had to use corrective steering even though going in a straight line. We are also trying to figure out and resolve that one. I will say that at 8/10 of my personal capacity, Damptronics was fine. 1:07 warm up lap was fine, 1:05 fine, 1:04 started to have issues, 1:03 was downright hairy, so I gave up. That compares with low 1:02s my last time out with OEM without braking or rear end issues and I know the car could have given me 1:01s with a little more seat time. So, in my case at my track, Damptronics made the car slower by a couple of seconds and making it very uncomfortable at that. So, no real suggestions here yet. We're trying to figure out if the stiffer sways I have now contributed to the rear end issue. Normally sways shouldn't impact straight line, but in this case if the pavement is rough and the suspension stiff, and you get some minor left to right movement, maybe the stiff sway is compounding that.
Stick with what Porsche uses and recommends...
RonCT replied to Nugget's topic in 997-1 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 2S, Carrera 4S)Just saw this post now. There's no ride difference (harshness) that I've detected and I'm pretty sensitive. The GT3 Cup control arms came with 3mm shims and I'm set at a modest -1.6 front and -1.8 rear (could get up to about -2 front with the 3mm). Total was $1300 for parts, labor, and alignment.
Gus and Others, I just measured the 17" vs. 18". Both have the exact same height and width at the "wings". Both have the Porsche "universal" 16" offset slider rails. The width difference only comes into play where your hips / thighs are, where one is 17" and the other 18", which I have to guess is about the same as the OEM seat in the Boxster. These seats were mounted in a "tiny" 1992 C2 (964). I've seen huge seats like the 996 GT3 seats in the same car, as well as a Boxster. The previous owner of the 964 said one of the reasons he went with Kirkey was that it, unlike the Recaro, would fit the car and fit him (6'4" tall). Ron
Michelin PS2s are simply amazing tires. I've used them as my extreme cold / rain tire on the track. Many days in the mid 20s at the start of the morning and they stuck just fine. Just be cautious and be sensible to the conditions at hand. Now I can say from experience, that the PS1s were terrible in the cold...
Answered your duplicate post at RennList in full...
RonCT replied to Lazerblade's topic in 997-1 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 2S, Carrera 4S)Those are already exceptional numbers for a performance car. I get about 26 on the highway heading to and from the track, about 19 around the city, and 9 on the track.
RonCT replied to summoboy's topic in 997-1 Series (Carrera, Carrera 4, Carrera 2S, Carrera 4S)You asked if you were crazy and often just the fact that you ask a question implies you feel that way. You have a fairly new car with 6 years of warranty on it. Usually people don't worry much about basic items, they worry about the big ones like the Engine (#1) and the Transmission (#2). And what are you hoping to gain? A half a second off the 0-60? At least with Ruf they provide their own warranty, so that right there should make you really look into what it is they do that makes their product more expensive than the others. Perhaps 1/2 of the difference is actual labor and materials (they do quite a bit more than just slap on a SC), and perhaps the other 1/2 of the premium is in fact an internal insurance / warranty premium. I don't know enough about SCs to be able to balance the risk vs. reward. But adding one to a basically new car under warranty doesn't feel right to me. I've been enjoying my 997S on the track and street since March and have no desire for more power -- there's plenty there. If you are looking for something more moderate, consider a set of headers, cats, and mufflers, and perhaps software. Per my research, these don't negate warranty and change the personality of the car significantly. I've seen significant gains on the track and the sound is intoxicating. My purpose was not power, but rather introducing the ability to hear the car at speed on the track, opening up the flow a bit, improving throttle response and engine revs, etc. All accomplished with a nice boost to HP and TQ.