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more recently installed a supercharger and first time driving it feels like a totally different car. heres what im working with currently:

02 996 C2

- tpc supercharger kit

- ecu remapped by tpc

- 3rd radiator installed

- lightweight flywheel

- stage 1 clutch

prior to install of supercharger car had all the same modifications except the ecu was not remapped, that came with charger install. i know i have to get her to a dyno and check a number of things but my short test drive i experienced a "floggy" first gear and super low power at lower rpm ranges (2300 or less). im pretty sure its the ecu map. i have a durametric kit but i dont think i can write/flash the ecu. any ideas on how i can reflash the ecu myself or fix my first gear problem?

wondering what the car is like? its wicked past 3500 rpm :thumbup: she still needs her differential work done. got any clue where i can pick up a true lsd other than the oem gt3 or quaife option.

best,

tecra :renntech:

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I dont have a response except 2 things

1. How much was everything with install?

2. Take some pics and post them up. I am seriously considering a supercharger kit as well

more recently installed a supercharger and first time driving it feels like a totally different car. heres what im working with currently:

02 996 C2

- tpc supercharger kit

- ecu remapped by tpc

- 3rd radiator installed

- lightweight flywheel

- stage 1 clutch

prior to install of supercharger car had all the same modifications except the ecu was not remapped, that came with charger install. i know i have to get her to a dyno and check a number of things but my short test drive i experienced a "floggy" first gear and super low power at lower rpm ranges (2300 or less). im pretty sure its the ecu map. i have a durametric kit but i dont think i can write/flash the ecu. any ideas on how i can reflash the ecu myself or fix my first gear problem?

wondering what the car is like? its wicked past 3500 rpm :thumbup: she still needs her differential work done. got any clue where i can pick up a true lsd other than the oem gt3 or quaife option.

best,

tecra :renntech:

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beauar, when you say "everything", i think you mean just the supercharger kit? please note that i have to dyno the car still so i will clue you in on whats spent so far.

tpc charger kit $7500

3rd radiator $500

labor $5000

_________________

roughly $13k

dyno will be another $500 for a three runs

pics will arrive soon. car is at the body shop for another 5 days for the gt2 wing.

Edited by 420 Tecra
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more recently installed a supercharger and first time driving it feels like a totally different car. heres what im working with currently:

02 996 C2

- tpc supercharger kit

- ecu remapped by tpc

- 3rd radiator installed

- lightweight flywheel

- stage 1 clutch

prior to install of supercharger car had all the same modifications except the ecu was not remapped, that came with charger install. i know i have to get her to a dyno and check a number of things but my short test drive i experienced a "floggy" first gear and super low power at lower rpm ranges (2300 or less). im pretty sure its the ecu map.

And I'm pretty sure that the knock/ping sensors were screaming "HELP, HELP"..!! Probably enriching the mixture so high ignition began failing.

i have a durametric kit but i dont think i can write/flash the ecu. any ideas on how i can reflash the ecu myself or fix my first gear problem?

wondering what the car is like? its wicked past 3500 rpm :thumbup: she still needs her differential work done. got any clue where i can pick up a true lsd other than the oem gt3 or quaife option.

best,

tecra :renntech:

I would suggest trying some 100 octane LL aircraft fuel and if the low end performance improves then the native/static/base engine compression is still too high to accomodate unlimited BOOST without knock/ping.

By how much was the engine static compression ratio lowered when/as the SC was added..??

I'm pretty sure you, nor anyone for that matter, would NOT wish to reprogram the ECU so as to ignore the knock/ping sensors.

So we're left with...just what additional action might the engine ECU do to abate knock/ping once it has changed the timing and mixture to the "outer limits" OEM/factory limits.

Edited by wwest
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wwest, hi there and thanks for your thoughts! first of all, im already running 103 octane. im sure the timing and air/gas ratio is off, i desperately need to get her on the dyno then i think this problem will be corrected.

btw when you refer to compression, are you suggesting a compression test? i asked for this test at a dealer prior to install of SC and they said it was not a good idea at that time. i have booked some time for a dyno this week and after that i guess im going to a dealer for a compression test. will a dyno produce these compression results?

where would one read more about knock/ping sensors on the 2nd gen 996?

Edited by 420 Tecra
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Did they install the new program control for the kit? I believe that generation TPC kit ran a piggy back system and if that is not installed, there is no sense in continuing until it is.

my ecu was sent out from my shop who installed the SC to TPC. TPC only remapped it and sent it back. last time i spoke with TPC they did not mention piggy back system.

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Did they install the new program control for the kit? I believe that generation TPC kit ran a piggy back system and if that is not installed, there is no sense in continuing until it is.

my ecu was sent out from my shop who installed the SC to TPC. TPC only remapped it and sent it back. last time i spoke with TPC they did not mention piggy back system.

Ok, as long as you are running TPC's program. The installer should easily be able to determine boost, if there are any leaks, fuel trim, timing, etc.

Edited by 1999Porsche911
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Did they install the new program control for the kit? I believe that generation TPC kit ran a piggy back system and if that is not installed, there is no sense in continuing until it is.

my ecu was sent out from my shop who installed the SC to TPC. TPC only remapped it and sent it back. last time i spoke with TPC they did not mention piggy back system.

Ok, as long as you are running TPC's program. The installer should easily be able to determine boost, if there are any leaks, fuel trim, timing, etc.

boost is 5 psi and she is not leaking, not sure what fuel trim is? what timing are you referring to? and what else might ask the shop about? i.e. etc

Edited by 420 Tecra
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wwest, hi there and thanks for your thoughts! first of all, im already running 103 octane. im sure the timing and air/gas ratio is off, i desperately need to get her on the dyno then i think this problem will be corrected.

btw when you refer to compression, are you suggesting a compression test? i asked for this test at a dealer prior to install of SC and they said it was not a good idea at that time. i have booked some time for a dyno this week and after that i guess im going to a dealer for a compression test. will a dyno produce these compression results?

where would one read more about knock/ping sensors on the 2nd gen 996?

"....suggesting a compression test?.."

No.

Your Porsche engine came from the factory with the MAXIMUM compression ratio assuming a FULL cylinder charge at WOT.

I simply do not see the object in adding an SC absent lowering the factory compression ratio in order to take full advantage of the external compression and intercooling.

Other than making the SC virtually or mostly non-functional I don't see how you could now "tune" your car for decent engine operation.

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wwest, hi there and thanks for your thoughts! first of all, im already running 103 octane. im sure the timing and air/gas ratio is off, i desperately need to get her on the dyno then i think this problem will be corrected.

btw when you refer to compression, are you suggesting a compression test? i asked for this test at a dealer prior to install of SC and they said it was not a good idea at that time. i have booked some time for a dyno this week and after that i guess im going to a dealer for a compression test. will a dyno produce these compression results?

where would one read more about knock/ping sensors on the 2nd gen 996?

"....suggesting a compression test?.."

No.

Your Porsche engine came from the factory with the MAXIMUM compression ratio assuming a FULL cylinder charge at WOT.

I simply do not see the object in adding an SC absent lowering the factory compression ratio in order to take full advantage of the external compression and intercooling.

Other than making the SC virtually or mostly non-functional I don't see how you could now "tune" your car for decent engine operation.

So, please explain the differnce in risk with running 1.2 BAR of boost on an engine running a 9.6 CR and 0.4 BAR of boost on the same engine running a 11.3 CR? How does boosting a high compression engine that adds more the 40% hp make it non functional?

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Did they install the new program control for the kit? I believe that generation TPC kit ran a piggy back system and if that is not installed, there is no sense in continuing until it is.

my ecu was sent out from my shop who installed the SC to TPC. TPC only remapped it and sent it back. last time i spoke with TPC they did not mention piggy back system.

Ok, as long as you are running TPC's program. The installer should easily be able to determine boost, if there are any leaks, fuel trim, timing, etc.

boost is 5 psi and she is not leaking, not sure what fuel trim is? what timing are you referring to? and what else might ask the shop about? i.e. etc

Your installer needs to check all sensors readings, Air/fuel ratio and timing along with boost levels and make sure they are within TPC specs. If not, he needs to make whatever corrections are neccesary. I assume that TPC support will provide a complete list of what these readings should be.

Edited by 1999Porsche911
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thats exactly what I was looking for. I was just curious. I know things can get complicated and expensive with forced induction. Wouldn't it have been cheaper to just sell your car and pick up a used turbo? I have to assume the 13K difference would have been cheaper to go with a turbo and then Mod from there? of course I could be wrong?

beauar, when you say "everything", i think you mean just the supercharger kit? please note that i have to dyno the car still so i will clue you in on whats spent so far.

tpc charger kit $7500

3rd radiator $500

labor $5000

_________________

roughly $13k

dyno will be another $500 for a three runs

pics will arrive soon. car is at the body shop for another 5 days for the gt2 wing.

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wwest, hi there and thanks for your thoughts! first of all, im already running 103 octane. im sure the timing and air/gas ratio is off, i desperately need to get her on the dyno then i think this problem will be corrected.

btw when you refer to compression, are you suggesting a compression test? i asked for this test at a dealer prior to install of SC and they said it was not a good idea at that time. i have booked some time for a dyno this week and after that i guess im going to a dealer for a compression test. will a dyno produce these compression results?

where would one read more about knock/ping sensors on the 2nd gen 996?

"....suggesting a compression test?.."

No.

Your Porsche engine came from the factory with the MAXIMUM compression ratio assuming a FULL cylinder charge at WOT.

I simply do not see the object in adding an SC absent lowering the factory compression ratio in order to take full advantage of the external compression and intercooling.

Other than making the SC virtually or mostly non-functional I don't see how you could now "tune" your car for decent engine operation.

So, please explain the differnce in risk with running 1.2 BAR of boost on an engine running a 9.6 CR

Not just boost, but INTERCOOLED boost.

and 0.4 BAR of boost on the same engine running a 11.3 CR?

Intercooling of a larger MASS of precompressed air in the case of the lower CR engine.

How does boosting a high compression engine that adds more the 40% hp make it non functional?

4040% increase would take a 300HP engine up to 360HP, undoubtedly pushing the "edge".

First of all we should assume, MUST assume, that an engine with a CR of 10:1, 12:1 for DFI, could only run premium fuel with a factory standard mixture (HIGH engine loading mixture) without detonation, pre-ignition, ignition due to the heat of compression rather than "waiting" for the ignition spark. Assuming the forced induction air is intercooled the effective CR, WOT/Full boost, might be as high as 12:1(non-DFI).

When the cylinder is being fully charged then the greater portion of the charge that can be precompressed and then intercooled the less likely is the possibility of detonation due to the heat of compression. The same reason the new DFI engines can have a 12:1 static/native compression ratio. First, the fuel is NOT in the mixture, cylinder charge, until very late in the compression cycle, and then when it is injected it serves to partially cool the just pre-heated air "charge".

SFI results in the fuel being preheated as it passes through the intake, intake valve, and then is additionally preheated by compression. DFI fuel reaches the entry into the combustion chamber as a liquid, a comparitively COOL liquid.

An ideal system would have have a CR of 1:1, the air charge FULLY pre-compressed and then intercooled, allowing the effective CR to rise as high as maybe 18-20:1

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wwest, hi there and thanks for your thoughts! first of all, im already running 103 octane. im sure the timing and air/gas ratio is off, i desperately need to get her on the dyno then i think this problem will be corrected.

btw when you refer to compression, are you suggesting a compression test? i asked for this test at a dealer prior to install of SC and they said it was not a good idea at that time. i have booked some time for a dyno this week and after that i guess im going to a dealer for a compression test. will a dyno produce these compression results?

where would one read more about knock/ping sensors on the 2nd gen 996?

"....suggesting a compression test?.."

No.

Your Porsche engine came from the factory with the MAXIMUM compression ratio assuming a FULL cylinder charge at WOT.

I simply do not see the object in adding an SC absent lowering the factory compression ratio in order to take full advantage of the external compression and intercooling.

Other than making the SC virtually or mostly non-functional I don't see how you could now "tune" your car for decent engine operation.

So, please explain the differnce in risk with running 1.2 BAR of boost on an engine running a 9.6 CR

Not just boost, but INTERCOOLED boost.

and 0.4 BAR of boost on the same engine running a 11.3 CR?

Intercooling of a larger MASS of precompressed air in the case of the lower CR engine.

How does boosting a high compression engine that adds more the 40% hp make it non functional?

4040% increase would take a 300HP engine up to 360HP, undoubtedly pushing the "edge".

First of all we should assume, MUST assume, that an engine with a CR of 10:1, 12:1 for DFI, could only run premium fuel with a factory standard mixture (HIGH engine loading mixture) without detonation, pre-ignition, ignition due to the heat of compression rather than "waiting" for the ignition spark. Assuming the forced induction air is intercooled the effective CR, WOT/Full boost, might be as high as 12:1(non-DFI).

When the cylinder is being fully charged then the greater portion of the charge that can be precompressed and then intercooled the less likely is the possibility of detonation due to the heat of compression. The same reason the new DFI engines can have a 12:1 static/native compression ratio. First, the fuel is NOT in the mixture, cylinder charge, until very late in the compression cycle, and then when it is injected it serves to partially cool the just pre-heated air "charge".

SFI results in the fuel being preheated as it passes through the intake, intake valve, and then is additionally preheated by compression. DFI fuel reaches the entry into the combustion chamber as a liquid, a comparitively COOL liquid.

An ideal system would have have a CR of 1:1, the air charge FULLY pre-compressed and then intercooled, allowing the effective CR to rise as high as maybe 18-20:1

Alright, so based on your statements, a lower CR engine needs a more efficient intercooler. Using the same intercooler for 0.4 bar of boost on a high CR engine would be even more efficient.

A 40% increase on a 300 hp engine is not 360 hp but 420 hp. There are a few otherwise stock 996 engines running far more hp than 420.

I won’t even address your comments on a DFI engine since we are in the 996 forum.

So, I’ll ask again, why does supercharging a stock 996 make it non functional?

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wwest, hi there and thanks for your thoughts! first of all, im already running 103 octane. im sure the timing and air/gas ratio is off, i desperately need to get her on the dyno then i think this problem will be corrected.

btw when you refer to compression, are you suggesting a compression test? i asked for this test at a dealer prior to install of SC and they said it was not a good idea at that time. i have booked some time for a dyno this week and after that i guess im going to a dealer for a compression test. will a dyno produce these compression results?

where would one read more about knock/ping sensors on the 2nd gen 996?

"....suggesting a compression test?.."

No.

Your Porsche engine came from the factory with the MAXIMUM compression ratio assuming a FULL cylinder charge at WOT.

I simply do not see the object in adding an SC absent lowering the factory compression ratio in order to take full advantage of the external compression and intercooling.

Other than making the SC virtually or mostly non-functional I don't see how you could now "tune" your car for decent engine operation.

So, please explain the differnce in risk with running 1.2 BAR of boost on an engine running a 9.6 CR

Not just boost, but INTERCOOLED boost.

and 0.4 BAR of boost on the same engine running a 11.3 CR?

Intercooling of a larger MASS of precompressed air in the case of the lower CR engine.

How does boosting a high compression engine that adds more the 40% hp make it non functional?

4040% increase would take a 300HP engine up to 360HP, undoubtedly pushing the "edge".

First of all we should assume, MUST assume, that an engine with a CR of 10:1, 12:1 for DFI, could only run premium fuel with a factory standard mixture (HIGH engine loading mixture) without detonation, pre-ignition, ignition due to the heat of compression rather than "waiting" for the ignition spark. Assuming the forced induction air is intercooled the effective CR, WOT/Full boost, might be as high as 12:1(non-DFI).

When the cylinder is being fully charged then the greater portion of the charge that can be precompressed and then intercooled the less likely is the possibility of detonation due to the heat of compression. The same reason the new DFI engines can have a 12:1 static/native compression ratio. First, the fuel is NOT in the mixture, cylinder charge, until very late in the compression cycle, and then when it is injected it serves to partially cool the just pre-heated air "charge".

SFI results in the fuel being preheated as it passes through the intake, intake valve, and then is additionally preheated by compression. DFI fuel reaches the entry into the combustion chamber as a liquid, a comparitively COOL liquid.

An ideal system would have have a CR of 1:1, the air charge FULLY pre-compressed and then intercooled, allowing the effective CR to rise as high as maybe 18-20:1

Alright, so based on your statements, a lower CR engine needs a more efficient intercooler.

No.

A low CR allows an SC/intercooler combination to be more "efficient".

Assuming WOT and reaching a FULL cylinder charge, with a low static CR more of the "charge" will have been intercooled AFTER compressing. That would allow a higher effective CR with boost vs having a smaller portion of the charge intercooled with an already high static CR..

Using the same intercooler for 0.4 bar of boost on a high CR engine would be even more efficient.

No.

A 40% increase on a 300 hp engine is not 360 hp but 420 hp. There are a few otherwise stock 996 engines running far more hp than 420.

My bad.

I won’t even address your comments on a DFI engine since we are in the 996 forum.

So, I’ll ask again, why does supercharging a stock 996 make it non functional?

Why don't we just wait and see what turns out to be wrong with your SC modification..??

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wwest, hi there and thanks for your thoughts! first of all, im already running 103 octane. im sure the timing and air/gas ratio is off, i desperately need to get her on the dyno then i think this problem will be corrected.

btw when you refer to compression, are you suggesting a compression test? i asked for this test at a dealer prior to install of SC and they said it was not a good idea at that time. i have booked some time for a dyno this week and after that i guess im going to a dealer for a compression test. will a dyno produce these compression results?

where would one read more about knock/ping sensors on the 2nd gen 996?

"....suggesting a compression test?.."

No.

Your Porsche engine came from the factory with the MAXIMUM compression ratio assuming a FULL cylinder charge at WOT.

I simply do not see the object in adding an SC absent lowering the factory compression ratio in order to take full advantage of the external compression and intercooling.

Other than making the SC virtually or mostly non-functional I don't see how you could now "tune" your car for decent engine operation.

So, please explain the differnce in risk with running 1.2 BAR of boost on an engine running a 9.6 CR

Not just boost, but INTERCOOLED boost.

and 0.4 BAR of boost on the same engine running a 11.3 CR?

Intercooling of a larger MASS of precompressed air in the case of the lower CR engine.

How does boosting a high compression engine that adds more the 40% hp make it non functional?

4040% increase would take a 300HP engine up to 360HP, undoubtedly pushing the "edge".

First of all we should assume, MUST assume, that an engine with a CR of 10:1, 12:1 for DFI, could only run premium fuel with a factory standard mixture (HIGH engine loading mixture) without detonation, pre-ignition, ignition due to the heat of compression rather than "waiting" for the ignition spark. Assuming the forced induction air is intercooled the effective CR, WOT/Full boost, might be as high as 12:1(non-DFI).

When the cylinder is being fully charged then the greater portion of the charge that can be precompressed and then intercooled the less likely is the possibility of detonation due to the heat of compression. The same reason the new DFI engines can have a 12:1 static/native compression ratio. First, the fuel is NOT in the mixture, cylinder charge, until very late in the compression cycle, and then when it is injected it serves to partially cool the just pre-heated air "charge".

SFI results in the fuel being preheated as it passes through the intake, intake valve, and then is additionally preheated by compression. DFI fuel reaches the entry into the combustion chamber as a liquid, a comparitively COOL liquid.

An ideal system would have have a CR of 1:1, the air charge FULLY pre-compressed and then intercooled, allowing the effective CR to rise as high as maybe 18-20:1

Alright, so based on your statements, a lower CR engine needs a more efficient intercooler.

No.

A low CR allows an SC/intercooler combination to be more "efficient".

Assuming WOT and reaching a FULL cylinder charge, with a low static CR more of the "charge" will have been intercooled AFTER compressing. That would allow a higher effective CR with boost vs having a smaller portion of the charge intercooled with an already high static CR..

Using the same intercooler for 0.4 bar of boost on a high CR engine would be even more efficient.

No.

A 40% increase on a 300 hp engine is not 360 hp but 420 hp. There are a few otherwise stock 996 engines running far more hp than 420.

My bad.

I won’t even address your comments on a DFI engine since we are in the 996 forum.

So, I’ll ask again, why does supercharging a stock 996 make it non functional?

Why don't we just wait and see what turns out to be wrong with your SC modification..??

A low CR allows an SC/intercooler combination to be more "efficient".

Assuming WOT and reaching a FULL cylinder charge, with a low static CR more of the "charge" will have been intercooled AFTER compressing. That would allow a higher effective CR with boost vs having a smaller portion of the charge intercooled with an already high static CR..

[/b]

Isn't that exactly what I said? :o

Why don't we just wait and see what turns out to be wrong with your SC modification..??

How much longer should I wait before I see the negative effects of a supercharger on my otherwise stock 99 C2? 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, 40,000, 50,000 miles ? I've been running a centrifuge compressor with a boosted compression ratio of as much as 19 psi for more than 5 years and currently have 72,000 plus on the engine. I sure hope I don't have to wait much longer. :D

Edited by 1999Porsche911
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hey ive got some news! the timing is off. spoke with tpc today and cars going back to installer. seems to be some kind of crankshaft ventilation pipe. either its plugged or not plugged from what i gathered... im not a mechanic but maybe something to consider if your going to put one on your 996. anyway will keep you guys updated as car will see the garage again tomorrow. pics will be here soon along with some possible video. btw i do have a durametric kit.

hey west and 1999 wheres your registry entries of your sweet porsches?

Edited by 420 Tecra
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hey ive got some news! the timing is off. spoke with tpc today and cars going back to installer. seems to be some kind of crankshaft ventilation pipe. either its plugged or not plugged from what i gathered... im not a mechanic but maybe something to consider if your going to put one on your 996. anyway will keep you guys updated as car will see the garage again tomorrow. pics will be here soon along with some possible video. btw i do have a durametric kit.

hey west and 1999 wheres your registry entries of your sweet porsches?

1978 911 SC Targa, Seafoam Metalic Green, BBS-RS, on loan to my Nephew in McCall ID.

1988 911 Carrera, SE (Special Edition).

2001 911/996 C4, Wimbledon Green, Natural Brown Leather.

Previously owned.

1978 SC Targa, as above, less BBS, gift to grand-niece.

1979 SC Targa, Forest Green, BBS-RS wheels, gift to Nyssa OR Mayor.

1999 911/996 C2, Blue/grey, Charitable donation to TeamSeattle.com

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hey ive got some news! the timing is off. spoke with tpc today and cars going back to installer. seems to be some kind of crankshaft ventilation pipe. either its plugged or not plugged from what i gathered... im not a mechanic but maybe something to consider if your going to put one on your 996. anyway will keep you guys updated as car will see the garage again tomorrow. pics will be here soon along with some possible video. btw i do have a durametric kit.

hey west and 1999 wheres your registry entries of your sweet porsches?

Hmmm..1978 SC Targa...buy that in Fresno..??

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hey ive got some news! the timing is off. spoke with tpc today and cars going back to installer. seems to be some kind of crankshaft ventilation pipe. either its plugged or not plugged from what i gathered... im not a mechanic but maybe something to consider if your going to put one on your 996. anyway will keep you guys updated as car will see the garage again tomorrow. pics will be here soon along with some possible video. btw i do have a durametric kit.

hey west and 1999 wheres your registry entries of your sweet porsches?

Hmmm..1978 SC Targa...buy that in Fresno..??

i dont own a 78 targa, i own a 78 911 sc coupe all original in poor condition and has been family owned for the past 25-30 years ;)

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You should look into an additional oil seperator.

The stock oil seperator will still get your maf sensor

dirty.

Also, Tom Chan with TPC quoted $2,500 for the ECU piggy back

adapter. Call him up and he can send you a picture.

Paul

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You should look into an additional oil seperator.

The stock oil seperator will still get your maf sensor

dirty.

Also, Tom Chan with TPC quoted $2,500 for the ECU piggy back

adapter. Call him up and he can send you a picture.

Paul

hi paul, spoke with tom today actually. he has never spoken of a piggy back system but if you read from his site which was just updated it states very clearly at the bottom of units page "Kit is available for the 99-04 Porsche 996 Carrera C2 or C4. All results are on a 6 speed manual transmission car. Kit includes everything needed for installation including the piggyback ECU upgrade, intake, supercharger, intercooler, and all hardware and fittings. This kit is very reliable, safe, and daily driveable for everyday use."

i will be sure to inquire about it tomorrow as the piggy back apparently is REQUIRED to make this proper, i really wonder why i did NOT rec the system in the first place??

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