Audio Upgrade

[cayvman]

Looking for input on a proposed audio upgrade in a 2002 Boxster.

Plan on swapping out the CDR-220 HU with an Alpine CDA-9886. Replace dash speakers with 4" MB Quart DKD110.

Replace door speakers with 6.5" MB Quart DKE-116.

I already have the PNP rear speakers. Should I replace these as well and if so with what?

Haven't decided on the amps to power the doors and dash speaker. Would like suggestions.

Also, with regards to the dash and rear speakers, would I run them from the same amp? Would I add xover(s) for these speakers?

Would I need a xover for the sub or is the active xover in the HU adequate?

I guess a word on the type of music listened to: Wide range, no rap (so don't need the thumping bass), eclectic, rock, funk, classical, world music.

TIA

Edited July 2, 2008 by cayvman

[JeTexas]

Looking for input on a proposed audio upgrade in a 2002 Boxster.

Plan on swapping out the CDR-220 HU with an Alpine CDA-9886. Replace dash speakers with 4" MB Quart DKD110.

Replace door speakers with 6.5" MB Quart DKE-116.

I already have the PNP rear speakers. Should I replace these as well and if so with what?

Haven't decided on the amps to power the doors and dash speaker. Would like suggestions.

Also, with regards to the dash and rear speakers, would I run them from the same amp? Would I add xover(s) for these speakers?

Would I need a xover for the sub or is the active xover in the HU adequate?

I guess a word on the type of music listened to: Wide range, no rap (so don't need the thumping bass), eclectic, rock, funk, classical, world music.

TIA

I haven't installed a stereo since I was 19, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think most amplifiers now have the crossovers built in and then a specific bass out.

It's entirely up to you as to whether or not you want to run one big amp like the stock system or seperate amps. I think most "audiophiles" usually run at least one amp for their full-range speakers and one for their sub, but honestly, I don't think you'll hear a difference as long as your one amp is carrying enough wattage to adequately power everything.

[juniinc]

If u got a sub , u definately need a X-over. My fosgate 8" is crossed at 110HZ,,,

Alpine 9886 should be equpped with a built in sub output+can also push those PNP rears.

I recommend any 2ohm stable bi channel amp out there(6ch hifonics,phenix gold,Punch,JL) with multi built in X-over.

Looking for input on a proposed audio upgrade in a 2002 Boxster.

Plan on swapping out the CDR-220 HU with an Alpine CDA-9886. Replace dash speakers with 4" MB Quart DKD110.

Replace door speakers with 6.5" MB Quart DKE-116.

I already have the PNP rear speakers. Should I replace these as well and if so with what?

Haven't decided on the amps to power the doors and dash speaker. Would like suggestions.

Also, with regards to the dash and rear speakers, would I run them from the same amp? Would I add xover(s) for these speakers?

Would I need a xover for the sub or is the active xover in the HU adequate?

I guess a word on the type of music listened to: Wide range, no rap (so don't need the thumping bass), eclectic, rock, funk, classical, world music.

TIA

[atmorris]

Looking for input on a proposed audio upgrade in a 2002 Boxster.

Plan on swapping out the CDR-220 HU with an Alpine CDA-9886. Replace dash speakers with 4" MB Quart DKD110.

Replace door speakers with 6.5" MB Quart DKE-116.

I already have the PNP rear speakers. Should I replace these as well and if so with what?

Haven't decided on the amps to power the doors and dash speaker. Would like suggestions.

Also, with regards to the dash and rear speakers, would I run them from the same amp? Would I add xover(s) for these speakers?

Would I need a xover for the sub or is the active xover in the HU adequate?

I guess a word on the type of music listened to: Wide range, no rap (so don't need the thumping bass), eclectic, rock, funk, classical, world music.

TIA

The 9886 has all the high and low pass filtering you need for the F and R speakers. No additional xovers would be needed.

Depends....If you are going for absolute best possible sound quality and a few extra bucks don't bother you, then yes, I would replace the 3.5" drivers in the PNP kit with 3.5" MB Quart DKE 108 or Polk Audio DB351 or other 4 ohm drivers. If you are on a budget, then no, I would not change these out, I'd save the money for the amp(s) instead. The drivers in the PNP kit are decent drivers, just not as bright as the MB Quarts.

The amp question is really hard to answer without more info. Is price an object? How discerning is your ear and how high quality do you want the sound ? Do you want to drive a sub as well later? Profile amps are great amps for the money and I would highly recommend them to anyone. If price is no object, I'd buy an Audison VRX 6 DIRECT 2 or McIntosh MCC406M to run everything. Backing off that price range a little maybe a Polk Audio PA1100.5, Alpine PDX-5, or Kicker ZX700.5. For real value at very slightly less impressive numbers you might want to check out using a Profile HA1040 for the F/R with a Profile HA700M for the doors, or maybe an Infinity Reference 5350a or MB Quart PAB 5400 to power everything - although the last 2 mentioned are a little marginal on available power for the Boxster with top down at highway speed in my opinion.

Not sure if you realized it or not but the door speakers ARE subs in a Boxster (well...they are supposed to be anyway...), and the 9886 is capable of providing a sub output. Kicker just came out with a perfect solution for the Boxster, the Kicker CompVT 08CVT654 subwoofer. These are a 6.5" purpose built subwoofer drivers, that can easily be adapted as the door speakers in a Boxster. If you were planning on converting the door speakers to fullrange drivers as I did, and then adding a small sub system, then that is another issue. A Boxster is a tough place to get a sub into. Front boot will probably house the electronics, rear boot is to small for most boxes, the sound will be muddy, and the engine is between it and you anyway. If you put in a footwell sub on the Pass side, you get better bass but give up some passenger footspace.

Probably the best solution for the Boxster is to look into mounting a Blaupunkt THb 200A, Alpine PLT-5 LAT, Kenwood KSC-SW10, or maybe a Bazooka BTA6100 Subwoofer System behind one of the seats. I personally have heard very good things about both the Blaupunkt THb 200A and the Kenwood KSC-SW10. I like the Blaupunkt THb 200A a little better because it carries an 8" driver and takes up about the same amount of room. I know someone who has mounted a KSC-SW10 behind the pass seat in a Boxster and loves it. It won't give you window rattling bottom end but it will give your music some solid, tight, bottom end that is missing otherwise.

Hope some of this has helped a little, and best of luck with your project. It is a lot of fun to do !

Edited July 3, 2008 by Andy_M

[Charlestonboxster]

Cayvman,

If you can reply to some of the questions/great scope of ideas above, I'll them pitch in my 2 cents worth.

In the meantime:

1- PNP rears are sufficient until you are driving more power up fron the the MD's can haldle anyway.

(rears only used for "barely perceptible" fill in sound)

2- Your MB"s for the dash are just fine as long as you know what's needed to be done to install them (sounds like you do)

3- I also did the Alpine conversion and absolutely love it with XM radio.

4- If you are going to do MB's in the dash and work the doors, you really don;t want full range in the doors, that will "Lower your sound stage".

You either want a proper 3 way system with crossovers and the doors are the mid bass driver,

or,

an excellent suggestion above and a newer way of solving the sub problem is the 6.5" sub drivers in the doors.

In this case, you woul dnot nead a 3 way system with crossover, you could just get 2 ways or coax for the dash,

and the subns for the doors, and as mentioned above, the Apline can filter your lows (say beloe 100hz into your doors, and above 100hx into your dash.

Either way though...with respect to amplification, if you want any bass and volume at all, you need an amp, ideally installed in the floor of the front trunk.

I presently use a massive 5 channel amp, but can easily see the convenience of powering the rear PNP's simnply with the Alpine, and using a smaller amp for the rest.

All suggestions above are fine, you will need 2 channels to drive your dash, and 2 channels or one sub channel to drive your door subs.

You won't need much more then a solid proper 50wrms for the MB's, 100wrms for door sub though.

If you do the sub doors, expect to buy/make proper baffles, and a LOT of duct tape and sound mat sealing, to get the best output possible.

I'm pushing 60 strong WRMS into my JL's and 150wrm+ into my 8" footwell sub and sometimes wish for more...:)

Sidenote: As mentioned above, the simple Kenwood KSW behind the passenger seat is a surpisingly good solution on a budget, no need for a separate amp

I have my previous one kicing around gladly sell it to you for a third of what they go for, if that's your route.

Previous Audio work done noted in my signature.

Tony

[cayvman]

Some good info.

I do know that the door speakers are subs and would like to keep them that way, hence the MB Quart DKE-116. Am aware of the need to build baffles and add the vibration dampening material.

However, will look into the Kicker CompVT subwoofer as an alternative to the MBs. I think either will be sufficient for my needs. Will look at the Kenwood KSC-SW10, though.

Which begs the question, if I were to go with the Kenwood behind the passenger seat, what would the recommended speakers be for the doors?

All in all, if I go with the MBs in the dash and doors, PNP in the rear, I would only need the one amp. My budget for the amp is somewhere in the $500 range, which makes the Kicker ZX700-5 a good option.

So, going with a 5 channel amp, would I wire the doors (assuming the MB or Kicker subs) using the single subwoofer channel and the fronts and rears using the remaining four channels. Sorry if this last question is lame.

Thanks all.

[cayvman]

What about the tweeters in the dash? Has anybody replaced those and if so, with what?

[P92300]

What about the tweeters in the dash? Has anybody replaced those and if so, with what?

I did install MB Quart tweeter in the dash.

My car is a 2001 996 3.6l

MB Quart QSD 213 as the front speaker, tweeter only in the dash, 5-1/4" to replace the factory door speakers.

conclusion: don't dream about any decent bass with 5-1/4". medium/high are great.

I also replaced Rear speaker with QSD210.

Cutting the old speakers was the solution to mount the 4" speaker (see pictures).

Just got an MBQuart PAB5400 amplifier and a Clarion MAX983HD Head unit, since Pioneer still does not ship F900BT in France.

It seems that Clarion does not sell this unit in the US, but it is finally the best solution I found (40GB HD, 7" QVGA TFT, Ipod control, SD Card slot , voice recognition...)

http://www.clarion.com/gb/en/products/2008...2387305225.html

Hope to get it installed + the amp over the week-end.

I now need to decide if I replace the 5-1/4" door speakers with Kicker CVT65 + proper Dynamat install+ 4" in dash, or have a sub installed behind the back seats.

Since the sub boxes I found for 996 will never pass the W.A.F (Women Acceptance Factor), I might go for the Kicker option.

Questions:

Is the stereo image good with 4" in the dash (I hated the factory sound)?

Did any of you managed to get a Bose sub boxes (> 2003)?

Any experience with Kicker CompVT 6.5"?

thanks

Pierre

Edited July 7, 2008 by P92300

[juniinc]

Rockford Fosgate 4"s were installed

[cayvman]

juniinc,

What model Rockford's? What did you do with the factory tweeter?

Joe

[juniinc]

P142C what a great speaker!

substantial difference just these speakers alone will make, U'd be very surprised.

factory tweeters? garbage of course,,,

I got 3 pairs tweets in they are all Cliff Design titanium dome.

[cayvman]

Did the rf's drop in (with the usual mods) or did it take more than that?

Regarding the tweeters, I trust you didn't opt for the stock install look, what with 3 pair.

Where did you put them all?

[juniinc]

RF's will drop in with a bit of epoxy to secure.

1 pair-dash(factory grill), 2 pairs-rear

[cayvman]

Okay juniinc, that picture just begged another question. I can see the one pair of tweeters installed in the middle of rear storage cabinet and I trust the other pair on the outside of said cabinet. But my question is, what the heck is that at the bottom of the picture? Sure looks like a speaker.

[juniinc]

That would be my RF 8" sub

check this out,,,

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php?s...c=17505&hl=

[Ross1]

What drivers did you put in the dash? The QSD 213 5 1/4 drivers won't fit, right?

[cayvman]

Looking for input on a proposed audio upgrade in a 2002 Boxster.

Plan on swapping out the CDR-220 HU with an Alpine CDA-9886. Replace dash speakers with 4" MB Quart DKD110.

Replace door speakers with 6.5" MB Quart DKE-116.

I already have the PNP rear speakers. Should I replace these as well and if so with what?

Haven't decided on the amps to power the doors and dash speaker. Would like suggestions.

Also, with regards to the dash and rear speakers, would I run them from the same amp? Would I add xover(s) for these speakers?

Would I need a xover for the sub or is the active xover in the HU adequate?

I guess a word on the type of music listened to: Wide range, no rap (so don't need the thumping bass), eclectic, rock, funk, classical, world music.

TIA

The 9886 has all the high and low pass filtering you need for the F and R speakers. No additional xovers would be needed.

Depends....If you are going for absolute best possible sound quality and a few extra bucks don't bother you, then yes, I would replace the 3.5" drivers in the PNP kit with 3.5" MB Quart DKE 108 or Polk Audio DB351 or other 4 ohm drivers. If you are on a budget, then no, I would not change these out, I'd save the money for the amp(s) instead. The drivers in the PNP kit are decent drivers, just not as bright as the MB Quarts.

The amp question is really hard to answer without more info. Is price an object? How discerning is your ear and how high quality do you want the sound ? Do you want to drive a sub as well later? Profile amps are great amps for the money and I would highly recommend them to anyone. If price is no object, I'd buy an Audison VRX 6 DIRECT 2 or McIntosh MCC406M to run everything. Backing off that price range a little maybe a Polk Audio PA1100.5, Alpine PDX-5, or Kicker ZX700.5. For real value at very slightly less impressive numbers you might want to check out using a Profile HA1040 for the F/R with a Profile HA700M for the doors, or maybe an Infinity Reference 5350a or MB Quart PAB 5400 to power everything - although the last 2 mentioned are a little marginal on available power for the Boxster with top down at highway speed in my opinion.

Not sure if you realized it or not but the door speakers ARE subs in a Boxster (well...they are supposed to be anyway...), and the 9886 is capable of providing a sub output. Kicker just came out with a perfect solution for the Boxster, the Kicker CompVT 08CVT654 subwoofer. These are a 6.5" purpose built subwoofer drivers, that can easily be adapted as the door speakers in a Boxster. If you were planning on converting the door speakers to fullrange drivers as I did, and then adding a small sub system, then that is another issue. A Boxster is a tough place to get a sub into. Front boot will probably house the electronics, rear boot is to small for most boxes, the sound will be muddy, and the engine is between it and you anyway. If you put in a footwell sub on the Pass side, you get better bass but give up some passenger footspace.

So, Andy, are you happy with the Bass output from the DKE-116s or would you recommend going the Kicker CompVT route?

Probably the best solution for the Boxster is to look into mounting a Blaupunkt THb 200A, Alpine PLT-5 LAT, Kenwood KSC-SW10, or maybe a Bazooka BTA6100 Subwoofer System behind one of the seats. I personally have heard very good things about both the Blaupunkt THb 200A and the Kenwood KSC-SW10. I like the Blaupunkt THb 200A a little better because it carries an 8" driver and takes up about the same amount of room. I know someone who has mounted a KSC-SW10 behind the pass seat in a Boxster and loves it. It won't give you window rattling bottom end but it will give your music some solid, tight, bottom end that is missing otherwise.

Hope some of this has helped a little, and best of luck with your project. It is a lot of fun to do !

[cayvman]

Think my last post got lost in the way I tried to post it.

So, here goes again.

So, Andy, are you happy with the Bass output from the DKE-116s or would you recommend going the Kicker CompVT route and let the dash speakers provide the mids?

[P92300]

What drivers did you put in the dash? The QSD 213 5 1/4 drivers won't fit, right?

I only installed tweeters in the dash. 5 1/4 replaced door speakers.

After reading Andy's speaker update PDF again (thank you so much Andy!), I will probably go for the Kicker CompVT 6.5 and put back 4" + 1"tweeter in dash.

Did anybody had a chance to install CompVT 6.5 as door speaker?

Pierre

[atmorris]

Cayvman,

4- If you are going to do MB's in the dash and work the doors, you really don;t want full range in the doors, that will "Lower your sound stage".

Tony

I agree with you on this in a theoretical sense Tony, but in the Boxster I found that the effect really isn't very noticable. I imagine it is because the sound stage is quite small and confined and there really isn't much imaging going on anyway...and because of the stock driver placements. The fronts fire off the glass at about ear level, and the rears are right at ear level, so having fulls in the doors, assuming you have it all balanced correctly, only seemed to "fill in" the soundstage and make it fuller to me....more enveloping. Generally though, I agree, you would want to angle any such driver up and toward the center of the sound stage.

In any event, I think you need the doors to be subs unless you are using a powered sub like the Blaupunkt THb 200A or Kenwood KSC-SW10 in there somewhere. Otherwise there isn't enough bottom when you have the top down and the volume turned up.

Edited July 17, 2008 by Andy_M

[Charlestonboxster]

Cayvman,

4- If you are going to do MB's in the dash and work the doors, you really don;t want full range in the doors, that will "Lower your sound stage".

Tony

I agree with you on this in a theoretical sense Tony, but in the Boxster I found that the effect really isn't very noticable. I imagine it is because the sound stage is quite small and confined and there really isn't much imaging going on anyway...and because of the stock driver placements. The fronts fire off the glass at about ear level, and the rears are right at ear level, so having fulls in the doors, assuming you have it all balanced correctly, only seemed to "fill in" the soundstage and make it fuller to me....more enveloping. Generally though, I agree, you would want to angle any such driver up and toward the center of the sound stage.

In any event, I think you need the doors to be subs unless you are using a powered sub like the Blaupunkt THb 200A or Kenwood KSC-SW10 in there somewhere. Otherwise there isn't enough bottom when you have the top down and the volume turned up.

Could be, I have not sat and listened to the two side by side, I didn't do full in the doors based on a lot of research on high end car audio sites and well known Jamey in LA, formerly Paris audio now Rawlings, porsche specialist.

Could be that it does not make a huge difference.

As far as subs/top down is concerned, Imagine a heavy duty real 8" sub, with a lot of excursion, in a sealed .4 cu ft fiberglass and wood footwell enclosure, with 200wrms of class D amp power pumping 30-50hz bass into the footwell.....and up under your wife's skirt....

http://pics.realmofexcursion.com/albums/us...01/DCP_2762.jpg

:)

Very healthy bass even with the top down, or at 80 mph.

Wife's 4'10", so leg room is not a problem..:)

FYI

There's a great used 4 channel MTX amp for sale for $105 right now on the http://www.realmofexcursion.com/forum.html forum site,

for anyone looking for a budget amp. Not ideal to drive multiple channels and a sub, but perfect for dash and doors 3 way plus rear, or

dash 2 way plus doors. IT's the baby brother of what I've got (MTX4405)

Edited July 17, 2008 by Charlestonboxster

[atmorris]

Cayvman,

4- If you are going to do MB's in the dash and work the doors, you really don;t want full range in the doors, that will "Lower your sound stage".

Tony

I agree with you on this in a theoretical sense Tony, but in the Boxster I found that the effect really isn't very noticable. I imagine it is because the sound stage is quite small and confined and there really isn't much imaging going on anyway...and because of the stock driver placements. The fronts fire off the glass at about ear level, and the rears are right at ear level, so having fulls in the doors, assuming you have it all balanced correctly, only seemed to "fill in" the soundstage and make it fuller to me....more enveloping. Generally though, I agree, you would want to angle any such driver up and toward the center of the sound stage.

In any event, I think you need the doors to be subs unless you are using a powered sub like the Blaupunkt THb 200A or Kenwood KSC-SW10 in there somewhere. Otherwise there isn't enough bottom when you have the top down and the volume turned up.

Could be, I have not sat and listened to the two side by side, I didn't do full in the doors based on a lot of research on high end car audio sites and well known Jamey in LA, formerly Paris audio now Rawlings, porsche specialist.

Could be that it does not make a huge difference.

As far as subs/top down is concerned, Imagine a heavy duty real 8" sub, with a lot of excursion, in a sealed .4 cu ft fiberglass and wood footwell enclosure, with 200wrms of class D amp power pumping 30-50hz bass into the footwell.....and up under your wife's skirt....

http://pics.realmofexcursion.com/albums/us...01/DCP_2762.jpg

:)

Very healthy bass even with the top down, or at 80 mph.

Wife's 4'10", so leg room is not a problem..:)

....so the wife likes the NEW sub better I imagine....... :P

[MrPegazus]

Hey!

I´m finally ready for my stereo-upgrade.

After a trip to the states I have purchased the PNP rear-system a flat sub and a MB QUART 5,25" SYSTEM for the doors. Thanks a lot to Andy M for a great stereo-upgrade guide!!!! Will also change the fronts to 4" Rockford Fosgate.

My Question before I start is this:

I wanna drive the door speakers with an amp. How do I get a low-level signal for this?? Is it possible from the CDR-220??

( I have no door speakers now, so I dont have the original amp....JUST the CDR-220)

Thanx!

//Mat

[juniinc]

U will need either passive or electronic x-over,,,

best to get a multi CH amp with a built in X-over

Hey!

I´m finally ready for my stereo-upgrade.

After a trip to the states I have purchased the PNP rear-system a flat sub and a MB QUART 5,25" SYSTEM for the doors. Thanks a lot to Andy M for a great stereo-upgrade guide!!!! Will also change the fronts to 4" Rockford Fosgate.

My Question before I start is this:

I wanna drive the door speakers with an amp. How do I get a low-level signal for this?? Is it possible from the CDR-220??

( I have no door speakers now, so I dont have the original amp....JUST the CDR-220)

Thanx!

//Mat

[MrPegazus]

Ok! Thanx!

Sorry for not really understanding English....but with X-over, do You mean what we in Sweden call "High-level"???

To steal that signal from the Speaker-outputs??

In that case I have an amp with X-over......I have used that to drive a Sub with.

But the guy in the Radio-store advised me not to do so when it comes to full-range speakers. That is why I wanna use a low-level signal.

//Mats

U will need either passive or electronic x-over,,,

best to get a multi CH amp with a built in X-over

Hey!

I´m finally ready for my stereo-upgrade.

After a trip to the states I have purchased the PNP rear-system a flat sub and a MB QUART 5,25" SYSTEM for the doors. Thanks a lot to Andy M for a great stereo-upgrade guide!!!! Will also change the fronts to 4" Rockford Fosgate.

My Question before I start is this:

I wanna drive the door speakers with an amp. How do I get a low-level signal for this?? Is it possible from the CDR-220??

( I have no door speakers now, so I dont have the original amp....JUST the CDR-220)

Thanx!

//Mat