First Porsche... 2005 the best 997? Reliability of S vs. non?

[mototrojan12]

Approaching graduation and looking to purchase a sports car to be my somewhat daily driver (often commute on a motorcycle) as well as just a joy to ride. RWD, sharp handling and 300-350 hp in a smaller chassis is my ideal ride.

My father recently picked up a 2003 911 Carrera Cab and I have begun to fall in love with this era of 911's, and feel like it could fit my desire perfectly... perfect blend of style and raw performance.

While I am not opposed to the 996's... depending on what I can find I am interested in perhaps spending a bit more for the right 997.

My biggest concern is reliability and ease/cost of repair. I believe my question to be pretty straightforward, but of the earlier 997's, is 2005 the best bet? I have heard it is much less expensive to work on, specifically the IMS bearing fix.

Also, any big differences in reliability between the standard model and the S? I wouldn't mind the extra HP, as well as the electronic suspension.

Thanks!

[PeterC4]

Approaching graduation and looking to purchase a sports car to be my somewhat daily driver (often commute on a motorcycle) as well as just a joy to ride. RWD, sharp handling and 300-350 hp in a smaller chassis is my ideal ride.

My father recently picked up a 2003 911 Carrera Cab and I have begun to fall in love with this era of 911's, and feel like it could fit my desire perfectly... perfect blend of style and raw performance.

While I am not opposed to the 996's... depending on what I can find I am interested in perhaps spending a bit more for the right 997.

My biggest concern is reliability and ease/cost of repair. I believe my question to be pretty straightforward, but of the earlier 997's, is 2005 the best bet? I have heard it is much less expensive to work on, specifically the IMS bearing fix.

Also, any big differences in reliability between the standard model and the S? I wouldn't mind the extra HP, as well as the electronic suspension.

Thanks!

If you are concerned about cost of maintenance this car is not for you, particularly if you are just starting out after graduating from University?? A 996/7 will require rear tires at least every 10,000 miles, oil changes approach almost 9 litres of synthetic oil and you might run into a rear main seal issue in a 996, less likely in a 997. Most people use 93 Octane fuel. All expensive stuff. Even if the car is driven modestly, time itself will necessitate maintenance, it's just the way it is like every car - only a little more expensive. My wife used a 2004 C4S Cabriolet as a daily driver. Beautiful car. It suffered fatal engine failure after 80,000 km after the cylinder block got scored and the piston damaged the block. It was $30,000 for a new engine - and I took good care of it. Regardless, after a period of time, certain things needed to be changed. It is just the way it is. Don't get me wrong, they are wonderful cars in many ways and can be driven in the winter, are generally good daily drivers, and even the non-PDK automatics were fun to drive. In my view, the newer the model the better in your case so go with a 997 if you can, and an S will have better re-sale value. But seriously this class of car is expensive to maintain relatively speaking, new or older. And don't forget about depreciation. You could wave goodbye to $30,000 pretty fast. It doesn't mean it is not a worthwhile purchase. It is if you can afford it. If you go to your local Porsche dealer, my observation is that most customers take care of their cars and are not financially concerned about the cost of maintenance. That's why I think used Porsches can be decent buys. But if this is interfering with your rent, you are on the wrong track. Good luck.

Edited January 5, 2014 by PeterC4

[Mijostyn]

Approaching graduation and looking to purchase a sports car to be my somewhat daily driver (often commute on a motorcycle) as well as just a joy to ride. RWD, sharp handling and 300-350 hp in a smaller chassis is my ideal ride.

My father recently picked up a 2003 911 Carrera Cab and I have begun to fall in love with this era of 911's, and feel like it could fit my desire perfectly... perfect blend of style and raw performance.

While I am not opposed to the 996's... depending on what I can find I am interested in perhaps spending a bit more for the right 997.

My biggest concern is reliability and ease/cost of repair. I believe my question to be pretty straightforward, but of the earlier 997's, is 2005 the best bet? I have heard it is much less expensive to work on, specifically the IMS bearing fix.

Also, any big differences in reliability between the standard model and the S? I wouldn't mind the extra HP, as well as the electronic suspension.

Thanks!

If you are concerned about cost of maintenance this car is not for you, particularly if you are just starting out after graduating from University?? A 996/7 will require rear tires at least every 10,000 miles, oil changes approach almost 9 litres of synthetic oil and you might run into a rear main seal issue in a 996, less likely in a 997. Most people use 93 Octane fuel. All expensive stuff. Even if the car is driven modestly, time itself will necessitate maintenance, it's just the way it is like every car - only a little more expensive. My wife used a 2004 C4S Cabriolet as a daily driver. Beautiful car. It suffered fatal engine failure after 80,000 km after the cylinder block got scored and the piston damaged the block. It was $30,000 for a new engine - and I took good care of it. Regardless, after a period of time, certain things needed to be changed. It is just the way it is. Don't get me wrong, they are wonderful cars in many ways and can be driven in the winter, are generally good daily drivers, and even the non-PDK automatics were fun to drive. In my view, the newer the model the better in your case so go with a 997 if you can, and an S will have better re-sale value. But seriously this class of car is expensive to maintain relatively speaking, new or older. And don't forget about depreciation. You could wave goodbye to $30,000 pretty fast. It doesn't mean it is not a worthwhile purchase. It is if you can afford it. If you go to your local Porsche dealer, my observation is that most customers take care of their cars and are not financially concerned about the cost of maintenance. That's why I think used Porsches can be decent buys. But if this is interfering with your rent, you are on the wrong track. Good luck.

Great advise Peter. I have seen a lot of people get in above their heads over the years which sadly sours their view of the mark. A company like Toyota will make two million copies of a vehicle in short order. Any significant problem becomes apparent quickly and easily remedied. Parts are cheap because their cost of manufacture can be amortized over a much larger quantity. Porsche however makes a very low volume of cars. Engineering mistakes may not be apparent for years and parts are very expensive. Porsche is usually very good at taking care of its customers. Mishaps like your engine are frequently covered under warranty even if it is up. Not sure what happened with your case but you still seem to be hooked. As we say in the business, "There is No Substitute."

[JFP in PA]

Because we do it for a living, we often see people that try to make maintenance or repair decisions on one of these cars on a price basis alone. Unfortunately, when someone starts down that pathway, the journey often unhappily takes them somewhere other than where they intended to go, and sometimes leaves them with a bad taste in their mouth. These cars are neither cheap to buy, or maintain; and they have to be maintained. Owning a Porsche is a commitment, both to enjoy driving one of these superbly engineered vehicles, and having both the means and mindset to maintain it as it was designed to be kept. If you are ready to make that commitment, it can be memorable journey..............

[mototrojan12]

Thanks everybody. I think I have found a new love that'll give an equally enjoyable driving experience, with a bit less bling and a lot less $$$ (especially for maintenance).

Looking to get a newer S2000. I also fell in love with the latest model Cayman/Boxster S's so I think this will do for quite some time and then when I have a good bit more saved up and am further along in life I can look into one of those, or maybe go the 911 route.

Also want to test ride a few other toys (M3, Z4M, going to rent an MX-5) but pretty set on the idea of the S2000, maybe even spring for the CR if a test drive doesn't "shake" the idea out of my head.

Edited February 20, 2014 by mototrojan12

[Mijostyn]

Thanks everybody. I think I have found a new love that'll give an equally enjoyable driving experience, with a bit less bling and a lot less $$$ (especially for maintenance).

Looking to get a newer S2000. I also fell in love with the latest model Cayman/Boxster S's so I think this will do for quite some time and then when I have a good bit more saved up and am further along in life I can look into one of those, or maybe go the 911 route.

Also want to test ride a few other toys (M3, Z4M, going to rent an MX-5) but pretty set on the idea of the S2000, maybe even spring for the CR if a test drive doesn't "shake" the idea out of my head.

Moto, If you can find one in good shape the 944 Turbo is a great ride. I think JFP will agree that the motor in that car is as bullet proof as they get as long as they have not been modified and have been maintained properly.

[JFP in PA]

Thanks everybody. I think I have found a new love that'll give an equally enjoyable driving experience, with a bit less bling and a lot less $$$ (especially for maintenance).

Looking to get a newer S2000. I also fell in love with the latest model Cayman/Boxster S's so I think this will do for quite some time and then when I have a good bit more saved up and am further along in life I can look into one of those, or maybe go the 911 route.

Also want to test ride a few other toys (M3, Z4M, going to rent an MX-5) but pretty set on the idea of the S2000, maybe even spring for the CR if a test drive doesn't "shake" the idea out of my head.

Moto, If you can find one in good shape the 944 Turbo is a great ride. I think JFP will agree that the motor in that car is as bullet proof as they get as long as they have not been modified and have been maintained properly.

And the body has not rusted to dust.............

[Mijostyn]

I thought that car was galvanized? I have seen a few up here with some surface rust at the rear of the front wheel arches.

[JFP in PA]

I thought that car was galvanized? I have seen a few up here with some surface rust at the rear of the front wheel arches.

Not completely, common problem area is the floor pan, sills, and the battery tray areas. Once they start, you need some new sheet metal:

[Mijostyn]

I thought that car was galvanized? I have seen a few up here with some surface rust at the rear of the front wheel arches.

Not completely, common problem area is the floor pan, sills, and the battery tray areas. Once they start, you need some new sheet metal:

That is certainly a little more than surface rust. Is that a North East Car? With the sill gone like that the car is pretty much toast. I guess it was a good thing I totaled mine :-) Have you seen a 90s era 911 rust like that??

Edited February 25, 2014 by Mijostyn

[JFP in PA]

I thought that car was galvanized? I have seen a few up here with some surface rust at the rear of the front wheel arches.

Not completely, common problem area is the floor pan, sills, and the battery tray areas. Once they start, you need some new sheet metal:

That is certainly a little more than surface rust. Is that a North East Car? With the sill gone like that the car is pretty much toast. I guess it was a good thing I totaled mine :-) Have you seen a 90s era 911 rust like that??

Yes, that is a car from these parts. Once the salts they dump all over the roads get a foothold, it does not take long. The later cars do much better, probably because of the use of better steels and surface treatments to protect the metal.

[Mijostyn]

Yes, it is amazing. I had a GMC pickup. The body was galvanized but the frame was not. At nine years the body and interior were a 9/10 but the frame and body mounts were a mess. Metal flaking off all over the place. I was sure it was going to fail. So, I traded it in. Last GM whatever I'll ever buy. Toyota did have a similar problem with its pickups.

[binger]

If you want pristine cars of that vintage you need to come to California! :)