Questions about new IMS bearing tools

[mpaton]

So i have an original single row IMS bearing and I'm going through the process of understanding the procedure.

I will be putting in a Single Row Pro kit, which is a double row that fits in the single row space. This seems to require the "Faultless" tool kit to insert the bearing, and I have that.

However when I read the instructions for it, there is nothing about cooling the bearing prior to insertion, as there is in the instructions for the other kit.  Do the people here who do a lot of these cool the bearing anyway? The instructions don't say NOT to, but it's apparent that the instructions could still use a little refinement.

 

Does anyone know why this bearing requires a different insertion tool kit? Clearly it gives more control over the process, and reduces the chances of hammer impact damaging anything. However it still pushes on the intermediate shaft, and that force has to be resisted by something at the other end. But What? Oil pump, Crankcase? 

 

The kit doesn't appear to give any more control over when to stop pressing the bearing in, which is a little disappointing.

 

Thirdly, this kit is Recommended but not required for inserting the dual row bearing that replaces an original dual row bearing. Do these have significantly different insertion forces?

 

I have the tool kit with the cam locking plates. I believe the shorter plate is for locking the cams on the 5 chain engine which I don't have. However, can this plate be used to lock the intake cam on BANK 2 of the 3 chain engine? I would prefer to do this, as valve spring forces from this bank could apply torque to the IMS, which would act to try and cause it to rotate. If it did rotate enough, then the tensioners being out on bank 1 would make for bad news.

 

In fact in an ideal world, I'd like to lock the Intermediate shaft as well. Is this not perhaps a reason to use the set screws from the Pelican procedure (while still using cam and crank locking plates? This assumes that at least one of these set screws would find a suitable part of the sprocket to bear on. Let's be clear that I am NOT advocating leaving off the proper locking plates and pin.

 

Michael

[JFP in PA]

55 minutes ago, mpaton said:

So i have an original single rowIMS bearing and I'm going through the process of understanding the procedure.

I will be putting in a Single Row Pro kit, which is a double row that fits in the single row space. This seems to require the "Faultless" tool kit to insert the bearing, and I have that.

However when I read the instructions for it, there is nothing about cooling the bearing prior to insertion, as there is in the instructions for the other kit.  Do the people here who do a lot of these cool the bearing anyway? The instructions don't say NOT to, but it's apparent that the instructions could still use a little refinement.

 

Does anyone know why this bearing requires a different insertion tool kit? Clearly it gives more control over the process, and reduces the chances of hammer impact damaging anything. However it still pushes on the intermediate shaft, and that force has to be resisted by something at the other end. But What? Oil pump, Crankcase? 

 

The kit doesn't appear to give any more control over when to stop pressing the bearing in, which is a little disappointing.

 

Thirdly, this kit is Recommended but not required for inserting the dual row bearing that replaces an original dual row bearing. Do these have significantly different insertion forces?

 

I have the tool kit with the cam locking plates. I believe the shorter plate is for locking the cams on the 5 chain engine which I don't have. However, can this plate be used to lock the intake cam on BANK 2 of the 3 chain engine? I would prefer to do this, as valve spring forces from this bank could apply torque to the IMS, which would act to try and cause it to rotate. If it did rotate enough, then the tensioners being out on bank 1 would make for bad news.

 

In fact in an ideal world, I'd like to lock the Intermediate shaft as well. Is this not perhaps a reason to use the set screws from the Pelican procedure (while still using cam and crank locking plates? This assumes that at least one of these set screws would find a suitable part of the sprocket to bear on. Let's be clear that I am NOT advocating leaving off the proper locking plates and pin.

 

Michael

 

Because of how the Faultless tool works, cooling the bearing is not required.  If you feel better doing so, go ahead and cool it, but it is not necessary.

 

The single row pro bearing is a much more complex design bearing in order to get the two rows into the same space, which makes it susceptible to damage if installed incorrectly.  The Faultelss tool prevents this from happening.

 

When to stop is simple: The bearing bottoms out in the shaft, and the tool will not go further.  You are done.

 

The cam holding notches are different on the three chain engines, so no, the five chain tool will not work, and is in fact not needed.  Follow the instructions and you will be fine.

 

DO NOT USE SET SCREWS ON THE IMS SHAFT.  If there was one thing I and other shop owners wish had never been published, it would be this item.  Pushing on the IMS shaft gear with set screws can dislodge and even cock the chain gear, at which point you are totally screwed, and the engine has to come out and apart.  We have had multiple cars flatbedded to the shop after their owners did this.  Don’t do it.  The result is going from and upgrade to an totally engine rebuild.

[mpaton]

22 minutes ago, JFP in PA said:

 

Because of how the Faultless tool works, cooling the bearing is not required.  If you feel better doing so, go ahead and cool it, but it is not necessary.

 

The single row pro bearing is a much more complex design bearing in order to get the two rows into the same space, which makes it susceptible to damage if installed incorrectly.  The Faultelss tool prevents this from happening.

 

When to stop is simple: The bearing bottoms out in the shaft, and the tool will not go further.  You are done.

 

The cam holding notches are different on the three chain engines, so no, the five chain tool will not work, and is in fact not needed.  Follow the instructions and you will be fine.

 

DO NOT USE SET SCREWS ON THE IMS SHAFT.  If there was one thing I and other shop owners wish had never been published, it would be this item.  Pushing on the IMS shaft gear with set screws can dislodge and even cock the chain gear, at which point you are totally screwed, and the engine has to come out and apart.  We have had multiple cars flatbedded to the shop after their owners did this.  Don’t do it.  The result is going from and upgrade to an totally engine rebuild.

Thanks for the advice. When one attempts to completely understand the process, sometimes it gets a bit theoretical, which isn't always wrong.

 

However your advice on when to stop pressing in the bearing does reflect that you've done this lots of times, and it's easy for you to feel. I'm by no means ham fisted, but it would be reassuring if you could estimate how much torque it takes to press in the single row pro bearing with the faultless tool. I'd imagine there is some static friction to overcome on each twist of the wrench and then it moves more easily. And I'm sure I'll feel that.  Not having done any before, I'm concerned that the torque to overcome static friction may be close to the torque it takes to damage the case, or oil pump, or whatever we are pressing the shaft against. 

 

Do I take it that you never lock the bank 2 camshafts? I know it's optional, and it's probably people who've never done one before that worry.

[JFP in PA]

4 hours ago, mpaton said:

Thanks for the advice. When one attempts to completely understand the process, sometimes it gets a bit theoretical, which isn't always wrong.

 

However your advice on when to stop pressing in the bearing does reflect that you've done this lots of times, and it's easy for you to feel. I'm by no means ham fisted, but it would be reassuring if you could estimate how much torque it takes to press in the single row pro bearing with the faultless tool. I'd imagine there is some static friction to overcome on each twist of the wrench and then it moves more easily. And I'm sure I'll feel that.  Not having done any before, I'm concerned that the torque to overcome static friction may be close to the torque it takes to damage the case, or oil pump, or whatever we are pressing the shaft against. 

 

Do I take it that you never lock the bank 2 camshafts? I know it's optional, and it's probably people who've never done one before that worry.

 

When the Faultless tool is pressing the new bearing into the shaft, because of how well it aligns the bearing with the shaft, relatively little effort is required; it just cranks in using a ratchet handle.  When the bearing bottoms out, suddenly you can’t turn the tool any longer.  Simple and effective.  Think of the Faultless Tool as being much like a large C clamp, when it bottoms out, the force required to turn further rises exponentially.  Remove the tool and you should just see the snap ring groove inside the shaft, just ahead of the bearing.  Insert and seat the snap ring, and the new bearing is in.  It is just that simple.  That is why the tool has the name it has, it is truly Faultless.

 

With the engine locked at TDC, the one bank locked, and the hydraulic tensioners removed, the engine isn’t going anywhere.

 

Never be concerned about asking lots of questions, I worry far more about people who don’t ask............

[mpaton]

4 hours ago, JFP in PA said:

 

When the Faultless tool is pressing the new bearing into the shaft, because of how well it aligns the bearing with the shaft, relatively little effort is required; it just cranks in using a ratchet handle.  When the bearing bottoms out, suddenly you can’t turn the tool any longer.  Simple and effective.  Think of the Faultless Tool as being much like a large C clamp, when it bottoms out, the force required to turn further rises exponentially.  Remove the tool and you should just see the snap ring groove inside the shaft, just ahead of the bearing.  Insert and seat the snap ring, and the new bearing is in.  It is just that simple.  That is why the tool has the name it has, it is truly Faultless.

 

With the engine locked at TDC, the one bank locked, and the hydraulic tensioners removed, the engine isn’t going anywhere.

 

Never be concerned about asking lots of questions, I worry far more about people who don’t ask............

Thanks. So I confess I wasn't expecting a snap ring to go back in, as the Single Row Pro has this groove for a clip in th the outer race of the bearing.  Hope I didn't miss that in the instructions.

[JFP in PA]

1 hour ago, mpaton said:

Thanks. So I confess I wasn't expecting a snap ring to go back in, as the Single Row Pro has this groove for a clip in th the outer race of the bearing.  Hope I didn't miss that in the instructions.

 

Opps! You are correct, I was thinking of the older single row classic which reused the OEM snap ring?.  The outter clip on the single row pro is another reason the Faultless tool is required for installation as it hold that clip in the retracted position until if finds the shaft grove during installation, and is the only tool that can do that during installation.

[Tyler H]

As JFP said, your intermediate shaft has a shoulder machined into it that the bearing will bottom out on when it is all the way home.

 

I recently bought the tools and successfully did the retrofit.  Tools are available for rent: https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale-ads-member-to-member-classifieds/1067717-for-rent-comprehensive-ln-ims-tool-kit.html

 

Edit:  I froze my bearing and driver assembly, however I don't think it mattered.

 

My 120k mi single-row bearing was serviceable, but at Stage 1 failure by F6I's definition on the recent PCA video.  Intact and not shedding debris, but the grease seals had been compromised by engine oil.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Tyler H