JFP in PA

JFP leave me your phone number, next time I will wake you up!!!! :D I am going in my garage with my computer and an ammeter. I will give you the exact amp the fan should pull! You are right, it should pull less tan 15 amps!!!

Yeah, that would be real popular on the home front.....................not! :eek:

Of course I was just kidding JFP!!! I think we can consider Silver fan at fault! I was unable to check the current draw of my fan due to a faulty multimeter. Good to know that I need a new one now!!!

Fan part# 996 624 036 04 and only $74.80 at Sonnen....

I knew you were kidding; but my better half goes to great lengths to make sure I am not disturbed when I am away from the shop.

The "cool tool" to test the circuit would be a clamp on ammeter:

The clamp and the top goes around the wire you want to test and gives very accurate readings of the current draw (amps) on the circuit. But as these things cost about $300, an inline cheap ammeter would be the way to go; or you could jump for this $12 beauty from Harbor Freight:

JFP leave me your phone number, next time I will wake you up!!!! :D I am going in my garage with my computer and an ammeter. I will give you the exact amp the fan should pull! You are right, it should pull less tan 15 amps!!!

Yeah, that would be real popular on the home front.....................not! :eek:

And the fan's current draw would have to be less than the rating on the line fuse.

Boy, I take a quiet morning and you guys are having a fun time..............

To check the amperage draw on the circuit at the fan, you will need to put an amp gauge of some sort in line with the circuit at the fan connection.

You need to run two wires, one to the battery + terminal, the other to a suitable chassis ground and then touch them to the fan connector to see if it quickly spins up. You can take the fan out of its current location to run this test so the wires are shorter. Just be careful with the + wire and be prepared to pull it away from the fan if the fan blades do not quickly and easily start spinning.

I can do that. One question -- I have a CTek 7002. Doesn't it have a mode where it can actually act as a battery? i wonder if I could use that??? Might be easier than removing the fan if that's possible.

No, it has a setting to maintain memory settings, but that is a very low amperage supply. If the circuit is shorted, or the fan it bad, it would simply blow the fuse in the Ctek.

JFP,

1. I will remove the relay #8. When you say to check both wires for continuity, I can perform this test as I did earlier today -- but which two leads am I going to be using for the test?

2. I can definitely unplug the fan again, but how exactly can i rig up a set of jumper wires to power the fan independently? For what it's worth I know it will work at least briefly for a second because I've heard it run for half a second before the fuse blows each time.

Pardon my ignorance. I also just want to make sure I'm really clear on these tests I'm running so I don't report back any false information to you guys and belabor this troubleshooting.

REALLY apprecaite you guys offering your time and advice !!!!!

With the fan relay out, you want to look at the resistance (you are actually reading continuity) between the terminals on the plug that goes into the fan and a suitable ground point, With the relay out, there should be no path to ground in the harness between the fan and the relay; so when you do this test, you are just looking at the wires and nothing else.

You want to spin the fan up for a bit and keep it running to see if it locks up due to a bad bearing or other internal component, which would overload the circuit and blow the fuse.

No need to apologize at all. I need all the smartest folks on this site like you andf JFP's help on this little gremlin.

To answer your question it seems that the blades of the fan can turn fairly easily, however it's kind of hard to get my hand in there because the plastic grill is impeding my ability to really reach in there. Is there any other trick?

I did not connect the fan directly to the battery. How exactly could I go about doing that?

You need to run two wires, one to the battery + terminal, the other to a suitable chassis ground and then touch them to the fan connector to see if it quickly spins up. You can take the fan out of its current location to run this test so the wires are shorter. Just be careful with the + wire and be prepared to pull it away from the fan if the fan blades do not quickly and easily start spinning.

Shoot, no dice. Removed the relay circled in red and replaced it with the relay circled in blue (and left that one with nothing). Every time I try to activate the fan using the Durametric it blows the fuse. The short must be somewhere else. How else can I track this down? Does this just leave the wiring... or, God forbid, a problrm with the DME. Electrical problems suck :)

Any ideas what I should try next? Anything else I should be doing in the relays before I put that back together?

I would remove the relay and check the wiring running to the fan, testing both wires for continuity to ground (a short). I would also consider rigging up a set of jumper wires and trying to run the fan by itself (unplugged from the harness) as jpflip is suggesting to see how the fan behaves; while nothing jumped out while checking the fan previously, it is time to see if it actually works.

Here's the DME relays panel. Which one am I pulling out? And replacing with which one? Don't want to mess this up and fry my DME. I'm pretty sure it's one of those 3 burned orange colored ones. There's one for the engine purge fan and 2 for the spoiler.

That diagram I provided earlier from jpflip may be for the passenger side or something...the numbers don't seem to match up....???

I'm in the panel behind the driver's seat side. Is this definitely correct?

Jpflip has the diagram upside down for some reason (look where the maxi fuse for the air pump is in the diagram vs. your picture)............

The three red colored relays are all the same part numbers; #8 is the fan, #9 is spoiler retract, and in the bottom row #3 is spoiler extension. If you need, I can scan a photo from the manual (looks just like your photo) and post it with the relay locations.

Top row, second from right is #8 (red in color), #9 (next one over to the left on top row) should be the spoiler retract relay and have the same part #.

Got the parcel trim panel off. If you have the Bose option the face plates need to come off and then you need to unscrew the large silver bolt I have circlued in red above.

Now time to swap the relay and see is the fuse blows.....

Fingers crossed..........................

It sounds like the fan may be OK as you do not seem to be getting continuity between the housing and the wire connections.

The #8 relay that controls the fan should be the same part number that is used to control the movable spoilers on these cars, so the easiest move may be to simply try to swap the relay and reconnect the fan and turn on the ignition to see if the fuse doesn't blow with the new relay in; if that is in fact what happens, it is the relay, which is much cheaper than a new fan.

One other thing... when I'm able to get to the relays and do the swap, assuming for the moment that the fan relay is bad, should I be plugging this into the slot that I took the relay from the spoilers? In other words if this is a bad relay, won't it blow the fuse for the spoilers too? Or would I want to try by taking the relay from the spoilers..... using that for the engine purge fan while leaving its original slot empty (not sure what electrical implications that would have but prefer not to break anything else in the process while testing). Just a thought as I'm trying to think through this.

Also, is the relay #8 I'm seeking on the driver's side or passenger's side once I'm able to get this carpeted segment off?

I know this is an awefully verbose sequence but hopefully when I'm able to solve this it helps something else in the future that finds this thread........

Relay panel #2 is on the driver's side of the shelf area (the engine DME should be on the other side). I totally forgot about the Bose option that requires removal of the fasteners to get the parcel trim panel up to gain access to the relays, cars without the Bose are not as complicated. Remove the two fasteners under the Bose "vents" and the shelf should slide forward.

I would pull the existing suspect #8 relay out completely and move the spoiler relay (#9) into the #8 slot and then reconnect the fan to test the circuit. If everything works OK (fuse does not pop) and the Durametric can run the engine compartment fan without issue, you will need another relay. At that point, you can move the relay back into #9 slot and just leave the engine fan relay out until you get a new one (the car will code for the missing relay), or leave the relay in the engine fan slot and live with out your spoiler until the new relay is available.

Aren't electrical diagnostics fun? :eek:

It sounds like the fan may be OK as you do not seem to be getting continuity between the housing and the wire connections.

The #8 relay that controls the fan should be the same part number that is used to control the movable spoilers on these cars, so the easiest move may be to simply try to swap the relay and reconnect the fan and turn on the ignition to see if the fuse doesn't blow with the new relay in; if that is in fact what happens, it is the relay, which is much cheaper than a new fan.

Before going to check the relay, check the fan connections to the fan housing for a short to ground (you should see no continuity between either wire connection and the housing).

Test #1: CONTINUITY

A new fuse is in the fusebox. I have a cheap DT-830B digital multimeter. To test continuity I have plugged the black wire into COM and the red wire into VΩmA. I have the dial set to 2000k on the Ω section (see attached image which shows the settings I have configured, with the red and black not touching anything, therefore the reading is "1").

The results are as follows:

Reading of "0" when touching the 2 leads on the fan itself.

Reading of "004" when touching the 2 leads on the wiring harness that plugs into the fan.

You have it set too high, turn the meter down to 200 ohms, then if you touch the two meter leads together, your meter should read either "0" or some very small value near "0". If the fan is still reading "0" that means it is an open circuit with no resistance, which is highly unlikely for an electric motor. If you get a Ohm reading on the motor circuit at the lower setting, note it and then try getting a reading between each of the fan's connections and a bear metal area on the fan housing (you are looking for a short). If you get a "0" or near "0" reading between either wire and the housing, that is a short. Neither wire should indicate continuity to the fan housing.

Next try the same test on the harness that connects to the fan, check the two wires first, then each one to a chassis ground (one should be a ground, but both should not read as having continuity to ground). If both read as continuous to ground, there is a short in the harness or the relay is shorted.

Thanks, ya I saw the logo but just wanted to be sure. Saw the part# on there but wanted to be sure it hadn't been superceded -- doesn't sound like it but Sunset can answer that for me. I also saw 29/07/09 which I'm assuming is a manufacturer date -- therefore this was replaced before and this replacement really isn't that old (< 4yrs). Hopefully there's not something in the electrical system putting stress on it causing it to die early. For now I will leave it unplugged with the new, unblown fuse in the box.

JFP - I have a multimeter. Sorry for the required hand-holding but how exactly would I use it to test for the internal short?

Thanks again...if I can determine this today I can order the part from Sunset and install this week.

You are almost home, but you need to confirm it is the fan itself, and not a short in the wiring leading to the fan. With a multimeter, check the fan's circuit for continuity, resistance, and a possible short to ground (the fan housing) on either leg of the fan motor's wiring connector. If the fan motor's internal circuit shows a short to ground, it is Miller Time and you need a new fan; but if there is no short, you need to check the wiring harness going to the fan for the same type of short.

Once the fuse pops, the circuit is dead all the way back to the power source. You can now check the fan motor itself for a internal short using a multimeter.

That looks like the OEM fan.

You need to start looking for a short in the system. Disconnect the fan harness at the fan and check for a short; you can also try jumpering the fan itself to see if it runs without issue. You may also need to check the relay and temp sensor circuits for shorts as well. This is a process of elimination to find where the problem(s) lie.

hello,

I received my new transmission, someone have the bentley manual, just the chapter on transmission in PDF ?

Work shop manual is not explicit for uncoupling..

thanks :)

ps : i can buy a PDF

Why not just buy the manual?

Ok, so I'm not used to manhandling such a car (and would have no hesitation for my 03 ford explorer). Anyway, I'm still stymied regarding "unpluging the old lighter from wiring harness prior to proceeding." Do you mean that I still have to remove the dashboard cover of the three buttons plus lighter? Directions show disengaging the cover by pushing up but for whatever reason, my cover won't "push up." And yes, the kit includes a replacement bezel. Thanks for your continued interest.

OK, if you look in the lower left corner of the image I posted above, you will see the entire left trim piece of the dash(three buttons and lighter), which contains the lighter; this has to be pull off the dash panel to proceed. Tool for the job is a wooden tongue depressor (like a doctor uses) or some similar non marring device. Slide the tool under the trim piece and gently pull the trim while working the tool around its rim to extract it from the dash. It will pop right off. Once pulled off, you will see the lighter's electrical plug on the rear, just unplug it (you cannot get the old socket out without disconnecting it). Once the lighter is unplugged, you can commence removing the old one and installing the new parts.

Not really, probably an actuator issue. Relatively straight forward fix:

P1341 Camshaft Adjustment, Bank 1 – Below LimitPotential causes:– Short to ground– Actuator faulty– Open circuit in triggering wire– Open circuit in B+ supplyI'd check the wiring connector for corrosion or a bad wire, a common cause.

Yeah, I can't do it either... ;) ;)

PST2.png

Show off.............................. :D

we rebuilt an engine in a 2001 c4s

the car now has a long crank before starting

has new alternator and battery and wiring harness for starter

we replaced the crank sensor and cleared the code

the P1579 code keeps coming back for crank sensor - tried 2 new sensors

long crank all hot or cold conditions

I checked crank sensor connector and cleaned with dieelectric grease

fuel pressure is good and does not have any leak down

sometimes will crank 7 times then start some times 20 or more

Im chasing my tail on this one

Im open for all suggestions

Thank You

Did you change the flywheel during the rebuild?

And please do not double post, it is against the forum rules you agreed to when you signed up.............

The dash also indicates "Failure indicator" with a picture of an engine in front of it at start up.

Guess, I will be buying a Durametric today...

Either that or find a local Indy that has one.....................