JFP in PA

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this issue recently written up in Excellence magazine? If it is, they came up with a welding solution that is supposed to be a permanent fix............

Which is why when using the newer cooler one will need the adapter plate, #35 and P/N 99610712900 MSRP $157.28 in the picture below.

Exactly, as stated earlier, the very early cars had an adaptor plate, which is what yours is; the later "S" cooler will still bolt in, and as Loren pointed out, is the only style replacement cooler available..........

As for the coolant, if the system is not drained prior to pulling the cooler, it will dump about 2 liters of coolant all over the engine, and some will most likely go down the oil passages. Removing the vent line will not cause the system to drain down; the cooler remains full of coolant when the engine is not running............

The cooler is the only place coolant is anywhere near the fluid, it has to be the source.

The original poster came in wanting info and experience with E85. It seems you are the one who doesn't agree with that choice, or have any experience with it.

Actually, we do have experience with it, some with aftermarket conversion kits as well as with some of the OEM "Flex Fuel" setups, which I believe is what the OP was asking about, and what I based my comments on. So I would not say that my shop "doesn't have any experience" with the technology; we do, and it hasn’t always been as smooth or easy a route to cheap performance that some marketer’s would like you to think; which is also I also believe the OP wanted to know as well.

Yawn......................... B)

Look, if you are so "had up" about using E85, be my guest. I see far better performance pathways for these vehicles, with fewer maintenance headaches, than high EtOH based fuels, particularly on engines that are not normally aspirated, and definitely not those with DFI.

In the end, it is your money, your vehicle, and your problem. Just don’t expect everyone to agree with your choices……….

As most, if not all of the customers (and potential customers as well) that approach us concerning upgrades or modifications to their vehicles are fairly astute and reasonably well read on the options available. The read the usual performance magazines and post on websites focused on their particular make and model. As such, they have been exposed to a lot of potential modifications, and usually start by asking about the relative merit of “A” over “B” or “C” pathway to more power/better handling, etc. Very few come to us clueless about what they want or need to do.

As for E85 availability, it was more prevalent sometime back than it is now, primarily due to slow sales. As tough as this economy is, station operators cannot tie up pumps and underground storage with fuel that simply does not move that quickly, so they converted their dedicated E85 equipment over to regular gas.

Just as a “by-the-by”, you are aware that Porsche released a document sometime ago (perhaps a year) cautioning owners about the corrosion problems associated with E10 fuels, recommending that 10% EtOH containing fuels should be subject to additive use (Stabil) at every fill up to limit these issues. Excellence Magazine did a write up on it………….

You've answered your own question. You don't hear about converting Porsches because modding these cars costs 5-10 times more than your average car. It isn't because an E85 setup isn't a legitimate way to make more horsepower.

I've owned a few Porsches in my day, a Boxster S, 911 Carrera, and now a Cayenne S, and by and large, Porsche owners do not really tinker with their cars. And when I mean tinker, I mean upgrading turbos themselves, installing air/fuel controllers, boost controllers, even upgrading transmission pieces with 300M parts, or completely redesigning a factory piece with a more performance oriented design. The use of E85 is hardly well known among Porsche owners. It probably never will be either, it isn't easy to get around Porsche software for tuning, or rather, it isn't cheap.

If you really think that converting to E85 seems to be a complete waste of time, I'd suggest you go on some other internet forums for other car makes to read otherwise. For people that have easy access to an E85 pump, there's a lot of them interested in converting, or have already converted.

Just so we are clear: We hear about extensively modifying Porsches everyday; along with our Merc, BMW, Ferrari, and Maserati customers as well; and with our domestic crowd. Not one has brought the subject up. Upgraded turbo's and associated gear, headers/exhaust systems, cams, reworked heads, intake manifolds, injectors, throttle bodies, total upgraded engine swaps, computer re-flashes, even the occasional nitrous set up; but no E85. Perhaps at the "complex carbohydrate adolescent" shop across town, but not here...................

I think he wanted to have metal flakes checked, not oil, to reveal the exact alloy. In any case, he will need a metallurgic lab to determine what the alloy is, and I do not know of one that is “Porsche specific” and able to tell you where the alloy came from; that is simply way too specific. I think any decent metal lab can do the alloy break down, figuring out where it came from would best be addressed by someone that spends a lot of time building there engines from scratch......

"Fuel lines would only need to be changed if they are aluminum (most cars are not, nor is the fuel tank usually aluminum.)"

And how many OEM's are using "aluminized mild steel" fuel lines these days as a hedge against situations when water gets into gas due to E10? More than you might imagine.......

"Ethanol is proven to make more horsepower at the same volume of air flow if enough fuel can be supplied. "

Sure, if you pump enough EtOH into the engine, eventually you overcome the simple physical fact that EtOH is down 1/3 on specific heat output (read horse power) on a volumetric basis when compared to pump gas. In most parts of the country, that simply kills the economics'.

"For a Porsche, upgrading to larger turbo's can be much more cost prohibitive than by swapping in larger injectors/fuel pump and tuning the car to run E85."

Yet, for some completely strange reason, we regularly get inquiries or projects involving upgrading turbo's, but have never once even been asked about converting a performance vehicle of any make to run E85. Ever wonder why that is?

Considering the verbiage in the automotive trade press about "the only one's getting anything out of E85 are the corn farmers"; and the fact that more than one OEM is dropping or reducing the number of "Flex Fuel" vehicles from their lineups due to poor sales or their inability to get enough money for them, as are a lot of fuel retailers, it would seem that economics, often referred to as "the great equalizer", has spoken on the subject...............

On a track, a specifically prepared "ten-tenth's" car can make more power on EtOH than on gas, but that is a "cost be damned" environment. The street is an entirely different matter however.............

Usually, someone familiar with wheel bearing noises on these cars can spot a bad one quickly once the car is up in the air, just by turning the wheel and listening. Changing the bearing is not that bad a job but is made significantly easier using a specialty tool set like the SIR system.

I would expect a more granular ferrous material, and a lot more of it, if it were the IMS bearing.............. That said, there are no "good" metal finds in the oil filter, and I'd keep an eye on it. Just to be safe, if you have access to a Durametric system, or a PST II/PIWIS unit, take a look at the cam deviation values at idle, if they are steady values the IMS is probably OK at this juncture.

@JFP, Thanks for the input... I cut my filter yesturday after 1k miles. Still finding some flakes...less flakes based on only 1k miles. What the hell...I changed the oil while I was there. Drain plug shows no sign of decay or flaking. There are no PST or Durametrics in my area. I have considered the purchase of the durametric for my personal use... If you strongly believe I should plug in and watch cam deviation on a regular basis... I will order one now... Let me know.

The Durametric software is as close as you are going to get to having one of the $18K/year leased PIWIS systems at your disposal; you would be able to read and clear the codes (ABS, air bags, service alerts, etc.) that force most people with an aftermarket OBD II scanner to spend $100 at the dealer for a 5 sec. code clearing. If you intend to keep the car, or stay with Porsche in the future, it would be an excellent investment of $300. Every car that comes into my shop for any scan related work automatically gets a look at the cam values; to date they are the only known proven indicator of serious IMS issues other than having the engine crap out when the IMS bearing dies.

Don't be overly concerned about occasionally seeing flakes or a few metallic bits in the filter, we probably do 50-75 Porsche oil changes a week in season, and just about everyone shows some "bits and bobs" in the filter. These bits can come from several places (valve springs, cam tension pads, chain wear, cam wear, etc.), and are a normal course of events for the M96/97; and while they should be noted and monitored, don't start losing sleep over them............

I will check the battery cables I am not sure what the resistance should be. Is there a resistance value if I go from the positive cable on battery back to the cable on the alt?

There should be no resistance in the cables to and from the battery.

Magnetic drain plugs are used on everything from motor cycles to Cadillac's to race cars, and on engines, transmissions and differentials; they are a low cost tool with no moving parts that can help you assess the general condition of your engine, and sometimes help identify a developing problem before it becomes a disaster. Not bad for a couple of bucks.....

What you may want to look at it the resistance (ohms) in the battery cables. From time to time we see a car with apparent charging problems that are actually caused by high resistance cables due to internal corrosion or bad connector ends

Going on a population of two (the ones I have personally seen) yes, but with a caveat: I did not have access to the car's records prior to them coming into my shop, and both were multiple owner cars; so I cannot say if the car was factory original, or if they had been "updated" at some point.

Interestingly, the engine oil cooler on the very early cars (without a vent line), is almost a dead ringer for the trans oil cooler still used on the Tiptronic transmission; both mount via an adaptor plate, neither has the vent line. I have often wondered if they were the same unit, but have never had both in the shop at the same time to compare…………..

JFP, dumb question. By surge tanks you mean the coolant reservoir, right?

Yes.

..they fit without any additional modifications..

No modifications?

How do you seal the oil passages without modifications?

What do you do with that tube that does not stick out of the top of the 1997 (986) heat exchanger?

Very simple: That is the very early 2.5L oil cooler, that uses an adaptor plate (attached to the cooler in the photo) can be removed and moved over to the newer cooler, which is flat on the bottom, with openings for the oil and coolant. These adaptor plates were only used on the very earliest 2.5L motors. The later cooler will still fit, and this is exactly why most dealers seem to sell you more o-rings than you need to put it on most M96/97 cases; the extras are incase you have this adaptor plate and need to transfer it over, otherwise you only need four o-ring, two each in two sizes. The “how to” section on replacing the oil cooler on a M96 with an adaptor plate is even covered in the Bentley manual, shows the adaptor, and where the extra o-rings go..............

The very early 2.5L cars did not have a ventline running from the top of the oil cooler to the rear boot surge tanks (added early to mid 97 after problems with air becoming trapped in the cooler, which is the highest point of the cooling system, reducing its effectiveness). All replacement tanks have a fitting for this line, as do many cars built in 97. On a very early car, without the connection on the tank (which would be very rare as the tank without the fitting only exsisted for a very short time), you can simply plug the line on the cooler; but a far better move would be to update the surge tank to the new design, if one is not already in the car, to prevent air entrainment. To my knowledge, the tanks without the line for the oil cooler are no longer available.

And just a by-the-by, I've only ever seen two Boxsters with the adaptor plate, both 2.5L 97’s, which is still listed in the PET, but unnecessary on 99.9% of the Boxsters ever built......

I la maika'i nou.....................:)

I would expect a more granular ferrous material, and a lot more of it, if it were the IMS bearing.............. That said, there are no "good" metal finds in the oil filter, and I'd keep an eye on it. Just to be safe, if you have access to a Durametric system, or a PST II/PIWIS unit, take a look at the cam deviation values at idle, if they are steady values the IMS is probably OK at this juncture.

As far as replacing things goes, any injector will work, there's no special E85 only injectors out there, same goes for the fuel pump. None of it needs to be stainless steel either.

Sorry, but that is not correct. E85 has a tendency to cause corrosion due to water entrainment in the fuel, leading to severe problems with injector, fuel lines, and components such as the pump, which also may not be able to deliver enough E85 fuel to begin with. Most to the seals and o-rings in the fuel system that are meant for gas will also tend to swell and leak, leading to additional issues.

We have seen more than one "attempted" E85 conversion in the shop, most of the aftermarket kits simply do not hold up because they do not go far enough.

As far as making more power and costing less, we have not seen that either. EtOH is about 1/3 lower in specific BTU output compared to gas, so if you have to use more just to get back to where you were, it is going to have to cost one Hell of a lot less, prices which I have not seen. And unless the vehicle was E85 from the factory, you also have to factor in the cost of the conversion over the miles run on E85, which will further impact the economics

So what? The part number designates it was for the "S" Boxster or the Carrera's, but it still fits as the mount on the engine case is exactly the same on all three cars. It is taller than the base unit, but that is why you want to use it: It has more than twice the heat transfer capacity. It fits, without any other modifications, and it works.......

Anytime.............................

RFM is correct, the switch changed in 2005 and now looks like this:

Instead of this for the earlier cars:

The aftermarket price as also gone from about $10 to over $130......................

I installed the oil heat exchanger today. It took four O rings.

To install you have to:

Drain water from engine block

I drained my oil and changed the oil filter

Place top in service position

Open engine compartment

Remove air tube from throttle body and air box

Remove J tube

Detach throttle body and place aside (good time to clean it)

Take care in removing vacuum tubes one on each side

Remove oil heat exchanger - 4 torx screws

Replace O rings

Install new 986S oil heat exchanger (tighten to 7lbs torque)

Installation is the reverse of removal

fill radiator

fill oil

Finished installation

On the 1997 (986) to install the oil heat exchanger:

You do not have to: "Drain water from engine block."

You do not have to: "Drain oil and changed the oil filter."

You do not have to: "Remove J tube."

You do not have to: "Detach throttle body and place aside (good time to clean it)."

You do not have to: "Remove "vacuum tubes one on each side."

1. "Place top in service position."

2. "Open engine compartment."

3. "Remove air tube from throttle body and air intake box on the left side."

4. "Remove oil heat exchanger - 4 hex screws."

5. "Replace O rings."

6. "Install new oil heat exchanger."

Installation is the reverse of removal.

The seals for the coolant break loose before the oil seals are free. Gently rock the heat exchanger before lifting it up and off and the coolant drains out of the heat exchanger without going into the oil. There is no need to mess with the oil, coolant drains, throttle body, J-tube and vacum lines, if you are just changing the heat exchanger . The "S," cooler looks different and will not fit.

As we currently have several dozen customers running the "S" cooler upgrade on base cars, I'm not sure why you posted this, but it is wrong on a couple of critical points:

1. Not draining the coolant will lead to a complete mess, and will most will likely get coolant into the oil passages. Even when the engine is off, the cooler if full of coolant (it is the highest point of the cooling system), containing a couple of liters of coolant, as well as a fair amount of residual oil. Pulling the cooler without draining the system first will dump the retained coolant out all over the area where the cooler bolts to the block and coolant will get into the oil passages, with residual oil getting all over the top of the area as well. Draining the system and using a plastic bag slid under the unit before removing it totally prevents any mess, or intermixing.

2. As mentioned, we have a lot of customers running the "S" cooler on base cars, they fit without any additional modifications, and are hands down one of the best upgrades you can do for the money. It is a very common update, even with engine rebuilders.

3. Several of the other "steps" the poster listed where of his choice (e.g.: changing the oil, pulling the throttle body, etc.) to do other maintenance while in there. While not required to swap out the cooler, they were being done in parallel with the swap.

I have never tried changing the diodes; I leave that to shops that specialize in these repairs. Quite often, changing out the regulator is a simple and relatively cheap fix. It is a bolt in item and common to Audi, Mercedes and even VW; often a better source for the part as they only charge about $40-50 for it.

That I do not know.