JFP in PA

Initial falloff is always signifigantly greater than subsequent testing shows (normal).

TBN is only one aspect to consider but I do trust Porsche. Does the 5W-40 test different?

Purely acedemic for me as my Mobil-1 gets changed once a year (3,000 - 4,000 miles) anyway.

This is one of those deals where everyone must make their own choice.

More info at this link:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

We have been collecting UoA's on several brands and weights of oils for years. Mobil 1's problems began several years back when we began to notice lower initial TBN's, very high TBN drop off with low mileage, poor ability to "stay in grade" with light use & low street miles, very poor film strengths, as well as other issues. We also noted that several grades (15W-50, once a staple for the air cooled crowd) lost all ACEA ratings. So it's not just one Mobil 1 weight, it's the entire product line. Mobil 1 used to get great test results, but that is no longer the case.

As the result of Mobil 1's change of direction, we stopped using the entire product line and now use a 10W-40 synthetic from another company (we tested their 5W-40, which was not bad, but the performance of their 10W-40 was superior) that continues to demonstrate excellent UoA's, even after hard track use, as our standard offering for water cooled models. We still get to test M1 products, often from new cars coming in for their first oil change, but things have not improved for Mobil 1, particularly the 0W-40 the factory seems to like.

You can continue to believe in Porsche’s vaunted "approved oil list" if you like; we will continue to trust the data we collect............

"What is wrong with 0W?"

Other than the simple fact that some 0W weight oils, and specifically Mobil 1 0W-40, demonstrate very poor used oil analysis data, particularly in terms of TBN fall off after 3-4 k miles of everyday street driving……………probably nothing.

I am coming up on my next oil change and was wondering if I should put an additive in. I have been putting Lucas oil in my wifes car for a while now and seem to like the results, but am a little skeptical with doing it to the Porsche due to possibilities of the IMS failure. But then again, it could help with the IMS problem and help the engine move more freely.

Has anyone put lucas oil in there car? Could it make the oil too thick?

I have a 2000 Boxster.

If you use an ACEA A3, B3, B4 rated full synthetic (preferably not a 0W-anything weight), you do not need additives. And no oil is any better than any other when it comes to the IMS bearing; that bearing fails because it is sealed and does not get lubrication from the engine oil......

The reality is that even if the car is warmed up, and sitting level on a lift, it is still dribbling oil 15 min. after you take the drain plug out. As we probably do 75-100 oil changes a month, you can bet that we don’t go take a coffee break every time to let every last drop out. It simply is not feasible………..

Put it up on the ramps, pull the plug, and let it sit for 15-30 min. Put the plug back, refill the sump, and get on with life…………….

The year of 2010 is coming up, I wish everyone doing well. Merry Christmas and happy New year to all of you.

I am looking for a Porsche 2010 calendar or any calendar that has Porsche cars. Do you know where or which web site I can buy one?

I live in SoCal and like to buy it from a store.

Thanks.

Nghia Ho

Contact Sunset Porsche, just got one from them........................

I tried to find some info on how to make the exchange, and didn't have much luck. Does anyone know how easy it is to install?

Kenn:

If you get the LN Engineering Thermostat with housing, it only involves removing and replacing four 10mm bolts and the gasket. The most time consuming part will be taken up by refilling the coolant that was drained in the process. That's an easy task if you have a Ulift vacuum tool by Uview.

If you can source a 160 degree thermostat directly from Mahler, it's the same process, but then you have to remove (un-spring) the old thermostat from your OEM housing and then insert the new thermostat in its place. This requires a "special Porsche tool", but it's a tool that you can easily improvise.

The difference is in the price, with the LN Engineering thermostat and housing costing around $200.

Again, if you can source the thermostat by itself, it should cost considerably less.

Regards, Maurice.

Have you been able to actually source the 160 degree stat from Mahler? Reason I ask is that all of the 160 stats i have seen, including those from LN are MotoRad units. I contacted MotoRad directly and was told that unit was "not available" in the US...................

You should also be aware that LN makes the thermostat available separately (no housing), but only in ten packs (which includes the replacement tool), which is cheaper in the long run for a shop or possible "group buy". Just a thought....

Does operating at a higher prcentage of time at lower temperature cause the ECM to keep fuel injection richer and lower MPG?

No; if anything, I would expect MPG to go up (slight mileage improvement has been reported but not confirmed) due to improved thermal efficiency. Before and after dyno runs have noted slight, but measurable HP and torque numbers as well. Remember, the reason for the higher temperature OEM stat is for emissions, not performance............... And, your DME has more than enough “bandwidth” to bring the fuel/air back into spec without out any emission of inspection problems.

I'm getting ready to yank and replace the factory original water pump and thermostat in our 98 986 which has 90k miles on it. I have read quite a bit about the positives on putting in the L&N Eng 160 thermostat. Only positives so far are there any 'gotchas' with not going with the factory part at 180 deg?

Please advise my trusted more knowing group.

Regards,

M2

We have multiple customers running the 160 stat, and I have one in my own car as well. To date, I have not seen one downside to the lower temp stat, which also happens to be the same temp range used on the GT2 and 3 cars from the factory....................

About three months ago I had my 02 986 S inspected at my local Porsche dealer. I was told that the rubber boots around the rear axles were broken, but since it was an expensive and tedious fix I could wait. Yesterday I took the car in for a different reason, but was told that the free inspection revealed that the axles were contaminated because of the broken rubber boots and needed to be replaced, on both sides, with a price tag in the thousands.

Can anyone comment on this? I'm clueless!

First, I would comment that whoever first told you about the ripped boots did not reinforce the potential damage that would occur. With the boots torn, the grease lubricating the CV joints can come out (an usually makes one Hell of mess under the car), after which water will get in and slowly destroy the CV. You should not have continued to run the car with the boots ripped.

Second, it is usually cheaper to replace the axel assemblies once the CV’s have failed then to remove, disassemble and repair them; the issue is the amount of time it take to do the axel assembly rebuild. Now comes the fun part: A lot of shops have been replacing the OEM axels with aftermarket rebuilds out of China. These units are cheap, but nowhere near the quality of the OEM units. So specifically ask about the source………

In any case, this is going to cost you unless you are ready and able to do it yourself………..

Time to change clutch, I was wondering how long it really takes to do it? I've seen the Porsche manual and it seems very cut and dried. I stopped by a Porsche repair facility (non-dealer) and they quoted me book at 17.6 hours. Seemed to me like a blindfolded chimpanzee drunk on jack Daniels could do it in 17.6 hours but a normal reasoning human could probably do it in 6 (learning curve).

Anyone here done it themselves?

On a lift in a well equipped shop, 4-6 hours total is realistic; if the dealer (who must be taking a nap during the process) quotes 17.6 hours, you need another dealer..........

Engine oils are more and more specific, i would only go with oils which are indicated in the approved oil list.

Porsche’s so-called approved list is the last place I would look for quality oils. Time, and time again, independent used oil tests have show what a load of crap their premier approved oil, Mobil1 0W-40, really is.

I would look for a10W-40 or 5W-40 full synthetic (we don’t use any Mobil 1 oils, or “0W-anything”, haven’t for years, and our customer’s cars are all the better for it) for the M96 engine, with ACEA A3, B3, & B4 ratings. There are plenty to choose from, and most are actually cheaper.

Problem is that you have a cable, a hunk of wire, but not the software needed; which only lives in the PIWIS........

I have Red Tops in two cars; one is over eight years old and load tests just fine, the other is three years old, also test fine.

Finally received the parts from Sunset, belt included.

After looking over instructions to R&R the pump, I found that the bolts need to be torqued to 7 foot-pounds. The smallest torque wrench I can find (Auto-zone) only goes down to 120 "inch pounds" which is equivalent to 10 foot pounds. Is 7 for real? That is barely snug I figure.

I see others have had problems removing the bolt to the far right. Was a universal joint used as is called out for in the instructions?

That is the correct torque; best way to do it is with an inch pound torque wrench, 7 foot pounds = 84 inch pounds, which is about mid scale on most inch pound wrenches..................

when removing tiptronic trans, part of the procedure in the bentley manual is removal of the torque converter attachment bolts so that it can be removed with the transmission. just curious as to whether the tiptronic can be removed if the TC is left in place? boxster is a year 2000 with 2.7L.

Do not attempt to remove the Tip without the converter; you are asking for large problems if you attempt this. :o

Where you goofed up was not pulling the chain tensioners to remove the load from the guide rails to the IMS..

It doesn't matter where the crank position is when the IMS flange is pulled as long as the flange is removed with the tensioners pulled and the engine isn't rotated AT ALL until it's fully reasssembled.

The total lack of real information about these engines is the issue. I really need to finish my DVDs.

Jake, do you have a decent source for the two locking pins (tool #9595) required for the IMS refit; or the flywheel lock (#9538/1 engine in the car)? Having one Hell of a time sourcing these................

I am making more tools... Forget trying to get the stuff from Porsche, they don't even know what engine the tools fit!

Let me know when you have them ready..............and thanks.

Where you goofed up was not pulling the chain tensioners to remove the load from the guide rails to the IMS..

It doesn't matter where the crank position is when the IMS flange is pulled as long as the flange is removed with the tensioners pulled and the engine isn't rotated AT ALL until it's fully reasssembled.

The total lack of real information about these engines is the issue. I really need to finish my DVDs.

Jake, do you have a decent source for the two locking pins (tool #9595) required for the IMS refit; or the flywheel lock (#9538/1 engine in the car)? Having one Hell of a time sourcing these................

My 1997 986 will be taken off the road in a week or 2 for Winter,and I need to do some work on my engine.

I need to replace the Variocam wear shoes that contact the timing chain on both banks and probably do both small timing chains while I am at it.

I also need to replace the AOS as I think I have a vacuum leak. I will also replace all the bearings on the idler pulleys. I have already replaced the Bank 1 Variocam chain tensioner and resealed the cam cover on the passenger side without removing the engine.

Is the drivers side harder to do?

I really should visually onspect the clutch as I have no idea when it was replaced last and does not appear to be slipping. I would also replace the intermediate shaft bearing if I remove the engine...Car has about 106,000 miles and runs very good but has a slight rattle on start up. From what I have read it is probably the timing chain tensioners, 3 in total...

I do all my own work, but have never removed the engine on a 986...is it hard to do? I think the work would be considerably easier with engine out of car.

You can do the work you describe with the engine in; however, considering that you apparently intend to remove the gear box, pulling the engine out (comes out the bottom) seem to be a good idea and does not require that much more effort. The M96 is much easier to work on when it is on a stand and you can rotate it to work on various components. Suggest this would be a very good time to nail some quality upgrades like the IMS retrofit, the larger oil cooler (if you don’t already have one), the 160 stat, perhaps a new water pump, and even the new oil pump drive that LN/Raby are working on. I would also consider maintenance items such as coil packs, new plug tubes/seals, etc.

Bosch says (about their spark plugs) "Nickel-plated rolled threads -- For complete anti-seize and corrosion protection".

Ah! So it did not come from Porsche, but from Bosch. As many of our clients do not use (or want) Bosch plugs; I still stand by my statement. And, in any case, using anti seize, even on Bosch plugs, does not cause any problems.....................it simply becomes a "belt & suspenders" application.

I'll find one from Porsche - have some patience I have other things to do.... and this is not on the top of my list ;)

Take your time, as I said, I've heard this before but have never seen any documentation to support it from Porsche, so I'm very interested to see what you turn up....

Not to add fuel to the fire but I have never had a Bosch plug freeze in the threads, NGK and other makes yes. That being said I do use anitseize on all the plugs I install but only a very small amount on the first few threads. I also torque the plugs to spec. I have seen a few cases over the years where excessive use of anti-seize has caused a problem where it seems to have coked and made the plug very difficult to remove. I don't know if the fault was in the use of a low temp anti-seize or just too much of it.

I cannot say that I have ever encountered an anti seize application that created a problem; on plugs or any other fastener for that matter. As I mentioned in my reply to Lorne, not everyone is enamored with Bosch plugs; and we have had excellent life and performance from other brands in our customer base. We also only use a small amount of anti seize, which is spread out evenly over the plug treads prior to insertion and being torqued to specs. We also regularly use a bore scope, which allows us to see any build up on the cylinder head threads; but I cannot honestly say we have ever seen any, so I don’t see that as an issue either.

Bosch says (about their spark plugs) "Nickel-plated rolled threads -- For complete anti-seize and corrosion protection".

Ah! So it did not come from Porsche, but from Bosch. As many of our clients do not use (or want) Bosch plugs; I still stand by my statement. And, in any case, using anti seize, even on Bosch plugs, does not cause any problems.....................it simply becomes a "belt & suspenders" application.

Porsche claimed that the specified torque not will maintain, with anti seize product on the spark plug.

Show me where they say that, not that I accept it in the first place, but humor me and show me...................

I have had people tell this more than once; and as much as I respect the knowledge base of Loren (and others), I am yet to see a Porsche document reference where they tell you not to use anti seize.................

Thanks guys,

I didn't put any anti-seez compound on them, in fact changed I never changed them before. The first guy must have done the sin....in more ways than one...four kryptonite electrode plugs(or something something like that) ...Weird though isn't it. 3 people on just these forums, all within a couple of weeks, report the same problem.

So is the theory that, we three (and by extrapolation, many,many more outside of these forums) are the victims of anti seize compound?

Regards, PK

No, anti seize will not cause the plugs to loosen; more than likely, they were never properly torqued in the first place. The issue with the plugs is you have a steel plug housing threaded into an alloy head in an area that see a lot of thermal swings. That is a recipe for problems as the two metals expand and contract at differing rates. The use of anti seize (in small quantities) on the treads assures that the plug will release and unthread without problems when the time comes.

To whom it may concern,

Is there a thing with these spark plugs and the alloy of the heads? Mine will be the 3rd instance i have of heard of, of these sparkplugs practically falling out in so many weeks. Mine were in just about finger tight when I replaced them at 35k. This was despite the fact that they have , if I recall, a torque spec that is pretty high.

PK

Not that I am aware of - Porsche says do not put anti-seize on the spark plugs.

So, if folks are putting anti-seize on I would try to clean it off.

I have never had a spark plug come loose from a Porsche in the 33 years I have been working on them - and I have never used anti-seize.

You just plain don't need it on Porsche alloy heads.

And in over thirty years of putting plugs in Porsche’s, we never let one out of the shop without anti seize on the plugs……..like other shops, we have seen too many instances where the plugs without it galled and ruined the plug threads. In all those years, we have never had a “come back” because the plugs became lose, and never had a plug gall on us……………….

After changing my transmission oil with Amsoil 75/90, my shifting went from good to worse. After my car is warmed up, it shifts fine. I am worried that I have over filled my transmission. It was difficult for me to measure the 11mm below the edge of the fill hole, and I may have put too much it. My car may not have been perfectly level either. So, my question is am I damaging the transmission if it is indeed over filled? I am thinking about re checking my work all over again, and making sure that the oil level is exact, draining a little oil as it may be critical for smooth shifting cold and hot. This is the nicest car I've ever had and I don't want to damage the transmission.

Then I would get the Amsoil out of it and put the factory fill in; Porsche uses a rather unique gear oil spec that no one seems to have a match for. As the factory stuff is a full synthetic, available and not all that expensive if you shop around; why use another oil that may or may not be compatible with some of the gearbox components...............