Transmission issue? Software? Paranoia?

[RevJim99]

Good Day everyone,

I've recently become the proud owner of a 2004 Cayenne S and I'm a little concerned with how it is performing at medium speeds. When driving at around 60 km/h in the city, with PSM on, it gradually shifts up to D5. Then if I want to punch it up a little to say 75km/h, it feels "jerky" for a few seconds, almost like it is flooding itself or something. Eventually it will shift down and accelerate OK.

The local dealer checked it out and said no issues, but I'm not sure they actually took it on the road, most likely hooked up to their computer.

They did report a couple of "soft" backfires detected by their system that they indicated might be bad gas (they said it is a fussy vehicle for gas?) or might be my coils, I'm going to try a different brand of gas for a while to see how that goes. I'd only driven it a very little bit before taking it to the dealer (had to get a headlight replaced) so I accepted that when I picked it up, but having driven it more now it just doesnt feel right that it should be jerky/shuddering like this.

Is it normal that it would be in D5 at these speeds? Dealer said that was for fuel economy, it goes to the gear to minimize fuel consumption. It goes just fine off the line, and at higher speeds (where the D5 seems like a more sensible gear to be in) it is fine if you want to knock it up a 10-20 km/h. Have driven a little with PSM off and don't have the same issue, but does seem to rev a good deal higher before switching gears.

I've read references here and there to a software flash or something to correct an initial issue, though I can't believe that was not done in the past.

Does anyone have any ideas and/or can you advise if my gearing makes sense / matches their experience? I'm not much of a gearhead (this is the first truly nice vehicle I've ever owned) so sorry I can't describe it better but maybe this strikes a chord with someone.....

Thanks for any tips or advice.

[mudman2]

What you describe is the drive by wire or "egas" delay or hesitation. Its not going away on an 04 but you can learn to live with it using Tip in circumstances where you need oomph

Good Day everyone,

I've recently become the proud owner of a 2004 Cayenne S and I'm a little concerned with how it is performing at medium speeds. When driving at around 60 km/h in the city, with PSM on, it gradually shifts up to D5. Then if I want to punch it up a little to say 75km/h, it feels "jerky" for a few seconds, almost like it is flooding itself or something. Eventually it will shift down and accelerate OK.

The local dealer checked it out and said no issues, but I'm not sure they actually took it on the road, most likely hooked up to their computer.

They did report a couple of "soft" backfires detected by their system that they indicated might be bad gas (they said it is a fussy vehicle for gas?) or might be my coils, I'm going to try a different brand of gas for a while to see how that goes. I'd only driven it a very little bit before taking it to the dealer (had to get a headlight replaced) so I accepted that when I picked it up, but having driven it more now it just doesnt feel right that it should be jerky/shuddering like this.

Is it normal that it would be in D5 at these speeds? Dealer said that was for fuel economy, it goes to the gear to minimize fuel consumption. It goes just fine off the line, and at higher speeds (where the D5 seems like a more sensible gear to be in) it is fine if you want to knock it up a 10-20 km/h. Have driven a little with PSM off and don't have the same issue, but does seem to rev a good deal higher before switching gears.

I've read references here and there to a software flash or something to correct an initial issue, though I can't believe that was not done in the past.

Does anyone have any ideas and/or can you advise if my gearing makes sense / matches their experience? I'm not much of a gearhead (this is the first truly nice vehicle I've ever owned) so sorry I can't describe it better but maybe this strikes a chord with someone.....

Thanks for any tips or advice.

[wvicary]

I have not noticed this and it's sounds like your dealer is feeding you a line of BS. Ask to take another Cayenne of the same year from their lot for drive and see if it acts the same way. There is a TSB issued on a ignition coil problem(V6 only?) but I believe it also triggers a check engine light when the problem occurs.

[RevJim99]

I have not noticed this and it's sounds like your dealer is feeding you a line of BS. Ask to take another Cayenne of the same year from their lot for drive and see if it acts the same way. There is a TSB issued on a ignition coil problem(V6 only?) but I believe it also triggers a check engine light when the problem occurs.

wvicary - thanks for your response. Can you advise, what gear is your vehicle usually in when you are travelling at 50-60 km/h?

[3ball]

I have not noticed this and it's sounds like your dealer is feeding you a line of BS. Ask to take another Cayenne of the same year from their lot for drive and see if it acts the same way. There is a TSB issued on a ignition coil problem(V6 only?) but I believe it also triggers a check engine light when the problem occurs.

wvicary - thanks for your response. Can you advise, what gear is your vehicle usually in when you are travelling at 50-60 km/h?

My 2004 Turbo is in 5th or 6th gear at 60 also, and when i punch it there's around a 2 second delay before it drops to 3rd gear. What wvicary suggested is definitely your best bet. If you get the same feeling with another Cayenne, then you might have a legitimate issue. If it feels similiar (especially if it's a newer model), you're just noticing a nuance in the design.

-edit: I should mention it's in 5th gear in "normal" mode, and 6th in "comfort"

Edited February 27, 2008 by 3ball

[CT44]

-edit: I should mention it's in 5th gear in "normal" mode, and 6th in "comfort"

I would definitely have all coils checked no matter what if you own an 04 and after I was certain they where correct troubleshoot the shifting if it is still an issue. As stated I think there will always be some delay and I have also found that the tranny adapts to your driving style - after getting on it for a few months it seems to handle those transitions more smoothly. Last I am pretty sure there is a TSB for the software be sure that is updated as well

3ball are you saying the shifting program changes when you change suspension settings?

JR

[mudman2]

3ball are you saying the shifting program changes when you change suspension settings?

JR

That is not correct 04 S operation, could be old DME flash

[Dennis C]

Good Day everyone,

I've recently become the proud owner of a 2004 Cayenne S and I'm a little concerned with how it is performing at medium speeds. When driving at around 60 km/h in the city, with PSM on, it gradually shifts up to D5. Then if I want to punch it up a little to say 75km/h, it feels "jerky" for a few seconds, almost like it is flooding itself or something. Eventually it will shift down and accelerate OK.

The local dealer checked it out and said no issues, but I'm not sure they actually took it on the road, most likely hooked up to their computer.

They did report a couple of "soft" backfires detected by their system that they indicated might be bad gas (they said it is a fussy vehicle for gas?) or might be my coils, I'm going to try a different brand of gas for a while to see how that goes. I'd only driven it a very little bit before taking it to the dealer (had to get a headlight replaced) so I accepted that when I picked it up, but having driven it more now it just doesnt feel right that it should be jerky/shuddering like this.

Is it normal that it would be in D5 at these speeds? Dealer said that was for fuel economy, it goes to the gear to minimize fuel consumption. It goes just fine off the line, and at higher speeds (where the D5 seems like a more sensible gear to be in) it is fine if you want to knock it up a 10-20 km/h. Have driven a little with PSM off and don't have the same issue, but does seem to rev a good deal higher before switching gears.

I've read references here and there to a software flash or something to correct an initial issue, though I can't believe that was not done in the past.

Does anyone have any ideas and/or can you advise if my gearing makes sense / matches their experience? I'm not much of a gearhead (this is the first truly nice vehicle I've ever owned) so sorry I can't describe it better but maybe this strikes a chord with someone.....

Thanks for any tips or advice.

What is the build date on the car in question?

My 2004 CS hesitates very slightly, but not like what I've seen described here. This could be a coil issue...

Your comments on "PSM off" driving are interesting too. My CS will typically not get out of 4th gear if I drive with PSM off. It starts in 1st, hold the gears for fairly high revs, and then gets up as high as 4th.

[RevJim99]

What is the build date on the car in question?

My 2004 CS hesitates very slightly, but not like what I've seen described here. This could be a coil issue...

Your comments on "PSM off" driving are interesting too. My CS will typically not get out of 4th gear if I drive with PSM off. It starts in 1st, hold the gears for fairly high revs, and then gets up as high as 4th.

Dennis

Unfortunately I'm 4000 miles from home in the Yemen desert at the moment. I'll ask my wife to take a look, where would she find the build date? Is it stamped on the drivers door?

I only drove with PSM off in the city, not at high speeds, so I don't know how many gears I might get through eventually.

There is a mechanic near me that does work on german autos - is the coils something they could likely look at or would they need the PMIS or whatever it is called that likely only the dealer has? Is this kind of work something I should definately go to the dealer for? Anyone have any ideas what kind of costs I would be looking at to have them replaced? Probably obvious questions to some of you, but like I said this is the first vehicle I've owned that I really have much interest in learning about.

Thanks for any information you can advise

[RevJim99]

Just want to say thanks to all who have replied. Based on these replies, and some other postings I found from a few years back, I have a better understanding of the "hesitation" in the vehicle.

I guess knowing that a bit better, what I would say is that it seems like during that "hesitation" time, the engine is jerky/hiccuping. It's not just that it is running smoothly but does not gear down and accelerate as quickly as I would expect - there definately is a rough feeling to it, which is kind of similar when you are trying to start a manual vehicle in 3rd or 4th gear (not that drastic, I don't feel like I'm going to stall or anything). A choppiness to it.

Anyway as I mentioned to DennisC I'm a long way from home at the moment but this is really helpful. It's good to get a wide range of inputs/experiences to have ideas of things that should be looked at when I get and I appreciate very much everyones time to give their thoughts. And a little reassuring that no ones first thought is that my tranny is going to fall out.....

Thanks again

RevJim

[RichieDubs]

definitely look into the coils. i just purchased a 2005 cayenne v6 with 27,500 miles and on the 3rd day of owning it, it had to be flatbedded to the dealer and had to have all the ignition coils replaced.

Edited March 5, 2008 by RichieDubs

[shastamonk]

Revjim99, your problem sound identcal to my wifes 04 CS. The build date was nov 04. She started noticing hard shifting at freeway speeds (55-70 mph) Most of the time it happened while the car was downshifting to perform a passing manuver. Sometimes it was real bad. Took the car to the dealer and they ended up replacing the valve boby for the transmission. Total cost was about $2000.00 usd. Good luck!

[GREBNET]

Revjim99, your problem sound identcal to my wifes 04 CS. The build date was nov 04. She started noticing hard shifting at freeway speeds (55-70 mph) Most of the time it happened while the car was downshifting to perform a passing manuver. Sometimes it was real bad. Took the car to the dealer and they ended up replacing the valve boby for the transmission. Total cost was about $2000.00 usd. Good luck!

I have a 04 S with 40 K miles. I took it in with a similar complaint although my stutters ( to the point of feeling like the car is shaking. It occurs usually when I am accellerating lightly around 15-25 mph . The dealer test drove it and for once felt my complaint. He has said it is the valve body in the transmission. ( I have no idea what that is ) Our main mechanic is out ( surgery) and they will repair it when he returns. I was skeptical of this diagnosis until you ( shastamonk) mention the same thing... Did it work ??

[mudman2]

That sounds more like coils

Revjim99, your problem sound identcal to my wifes 04 CS. The build date was nov 04. She started noticing hard shifting at freeway speeds (55-70 mph) Most of the time it happened while the car was downshifting to perform a passing manuver. Sometimes it was real bad. Took the car to the dealer and they ended up replacing the valve boby for the transmission. Total cost was about $2000.00 usd. Good luck!

I have a 04 S with 40 K miles. I took it in with a similar complaint although my stutters ( to the point of feeling like the car is shaking. It occurs usually when I am accellerating lightly around 15-25 mph . The dealer test drove it and for once felt my complaint. He has said it is the valve body in the transmission. ( I have no idea what that is ) Our main mechanic is out ( surgery) and they will repair it when he returns. I was skeptical of this diagnosis until you ( shastamonk) mention the same thing... Did it work ??

[RFM]

Most common valve block issue is rough downshifting from 3 to 2 gear.

[tyil]

Just want to say thanks to all who have replied. Based on these replies, and some other postings I found from a few years back, I have a better understanding of the "hesitation" in the vehicle.

I guess knowing that a bit better, what I would say is that it seems like during that "hesitation" time, the engine is jerky/hiccuping. It's not just that it is running smoothly but does not gear down and accelerate as quickly as I would expect - there definately is a rough feeling to it, which is kind of similar when you are trying to start a manual vehicle in 3rd or 4th gear (not that drastic, I don't feel like I'm going to stall or anything). A choppiness to it.

Anyway as I mentioned to DennisC I'm a long way from home at the moment but this is really helpful. It's good to get a wide range of inputs/experiences to have ideas of things that should be looked at when I get and I appreciate very much everyones time to give their thoughts. And a little reassuring that no ones first thought is that my tranny is going to fall out.....

Thanks again

RevJim

I am seeing the same behaviour, and almost put me into a situation where I could have rear-ended.

I was making a U turn, the oncoming traffic was just leaving the redlight and 100+' away. It was a liitle uphill (<5%). I was down to around 25mph and seeng that it is clear, I continued and started to press on the gas pedal. Nothing happened. I continued on pressing the pedal, untill I passed the 3/4 point no response from the vehicle. This is taking around 5-10 seconds. Seeing that the traffic is getting closer, I pressed the pedal all the way, and the vehicle started to move with hesitation and did nto really get fast enough to run away from the traffic behind me (even though I am 100% pressing on the pedal) for another 5-10 seconds.

Since this was not really an emergency situation, hopefully the traffic behind me would not have hit me :) . But this concerns me if I had to do this in case of an emergency.

Do you guys think that this is an isolated situation,and things lined up perfectly for this, or is this a problem?

Thanks

[RFM]

Is it happen with the wheels turned to the left ? Could be a differential issue, communication problem between differential speed sensor and DME, a visit at the dealer is recommended.

[tyil]

Is it happen with the wheels turned to the left ? Could be a differential issue, communication problem between differential speed sensor and DME, a visit at the dealer is recommended.

Actually, I was turning left. How is left vs. right make a difference?

[mudman2]

The description is a "from new" issue in 03/04 and some 05/06

There have been loads of comments like this over the years

Most people just work around this behavior using the TIP I know this may be something else but I doubt it.

Is it happen with the wheels turned to the left ? Could be a differential issue, communication problem between differential speed sensor and DME, a visit at the dealer is recommended.

Actually, I was turning left. How is left vs. right make a difference?

[gunzie]

Good Day everyone,

I've recently become the proud owner of a 2004 Cayenne S and I'm a little concerned with how it is performing at medium speeds. When driving at around 60 km/h in the city, with PSM on, it gradually shifts up to D5. Then if I want to punch it up a little to say 75km/h, it feels "jerky" for a few seconds, almost like it is flooding itself or something. Eventually it will shift down and accelerate OK.

The local dealer checked it out and said no issues, but I'm not sure they actually took it on the road, most likely hooked up to their computer.

They did report a couple of "soft" backfires detected by their system that they indicated might be bad gas (they said it is a fussy vehicle for gas?) or might be my coils, I'm going to try a different brand of gas for a while to see how that goes. I'd only driven it a very little bit before taking it to the dealer (had to get a headlight replaced) so I accepted that when I picked it up, but having driven it more now it just doesnt feel right that it should be jerky/shuddering like this.

Is it normal that it would be in D5 at these speeds? Dealer said that was for fuel economy, it goes to the gear to minimize fuel consumption. It goes just fine off the line, and at higher speeds (where the D5 seems like a more sensible gear to be in) it is fine if you want to knock it up a 10-20 km/h. Have driven a little with PSM off and don't have the same issue, but does seem to rev a good deal higher before switching gears.

I've read references here and there to a software flash or something to correct an initial issue, though I can't believe that was not done in the past.

Does anyone have any ideas and/or can you advise if my gearing makes sense / matches their experience? I'm not much of a gearhead (this is the first truly nice vehicle I've ever owned) so sorry I can't describe it better but maybe this strikes a chord with someone.....

Thanks for any tips or advice.

Hi,

My 05 CTT does the same - when you kick-down it actually makes you wonder if the car is asking "oh you want to go faster?" for a second, and then takes off like a rocket after shifting down 2 gears...this can be hazardous in overtaking attempts...so indeed I put it in manual or use the tip and shift down 2 gears before flooring it...

I've also noticed with the PSM off, the car shifts noticeably faster, but doesn't upshift anymore (at least in high gears as described below/ I need to verify that)

Only downside to driving with PSM off is you disable all safety measures.

So no, I'm also not happy with the response to the gaspedal - note that my transmission shifts very smoothly, no issues there.

I might go for a testdrive with one of the newer models to see if it behaves in the same way.

To me, this is the biggest turn-off for the car, especially when comparing eg with the new BMW X5

I wish some of the tuners would come out with their own "sporty transmission" update.

Cheers, G.

[mudman2]

Point of clarification

With the PSM turned off, its not actually off. Try to take the car outside of its safe operating envelope and it kicks back in real quick.

The PSM off also remaps the transmission, it will change up, just keep your foot down hahaaha

Hi,

My 05 CTT does the same - when you kick-down it actually makes you wonder if the car is asking "oh you want to go faster?" for a second, and then takes off like a rocket after shifting down 2 gears...this can be hazardous in overtaking attempts...so indeed I put it in manual or use the tip and shift down 2 gears before flooring it...

I've also noticed with the PSM off, the car shifts noticeably faster, but doesn't upshift anymore (at least in high gears as described below/ I need to verify that)

Only downside to driving with PSM off is you disable all safety measures.

So no, I'm also not happy with the response to the gaspedal - note that my transmission shifts very smoothly, no issues there.

I might go for a testdrive with one of the newer models to see if it behaves in the same way.

To me, this is the biggest turn-off for the car, especially when comparing eg with the new BMW X5

I wish some of the tuners would come out with their own "sporty transmission" update.

Cheers, G.