Change in oil consumption; 996

[Jon996]

Greetings! I would like some technical advice here.

Situation: Oil consumption on used 2003 996 C4S was running about 1 qt per 1500 miles. Not great, but not bad (no need to chime in if you have zero consumption just to make me feel bad ;) ) Then over the winter, as I drove the car, it went down to 1 qt per 600. So I figure I will head into the shop for a check. They do a formal oil consumption check, which, by the book, involves topping off the oil cold, driving 600 miles, then reading it cold. Now the annoying part (minor rant). They confirmed 1 qt per 600 miles, but then produced a TSB that stated 1.1 qt per 622 miles was the actual standard, thus they could not look into it. Since I am an engineer by trade, I pointed out that a dipstick is hardly a precision instrument. However, they sent the query on to the regional technical manager (probably an accountant) who denied action.

FYI: Never any smoke. Might be excessive soot from right exhaust, but some from left too. The car runs really quiet, no obvious power loss that I can tell, no weird sounds, no drips anywhere.

OK, I have a year left on my CPO, so I can wait a few months then go back in for a precision dipstick measurement, but I was also thinking of taking some action (at my expense) now. One item that comes to mind from other threads on this is to try the 2 chamber Porsche Motor Sport oil separator. Porsche OEM-996 107 926 00. At least even if this did not help it would be considered an upgrade from the stock unit.

Any other suggestions?

Edited May 7, 2008 by Jon996

[perryinva]

I'm a mechanical engineer too, so I feel your pain. It's NOT right. To start, how many miles on the car when you got it, how many have you put on it, oil ever been changed since you got it, what kind of driving, what oil are you using, tip or man ?, all the usual helpful baseline info. Have you checked to see if your AOS is the problem? (The TB is easy to remove and if you have any oily residue in the intake plenum, then at least you KNOW where the oil is going and the CPO will change it out for you. You want to do that ASAP, becuase if you are getting a lot of oil in your intake, you can hydro lock a cylinder and toast your engine. Definitely not normal for it to change suddenly. Have you pulled any plugs to check for sooting/oily condition? I'd also pay to have a leakdown/compression test, or a tthe very least, send out an oil sample for testing. Cheap, easy to do, diagnostics.

My 2002 C2 has 38k miles, and doesn't use a drop that I can tell, of 0W-40, but I've only had it 6 weeks and put 1500 miles on it. Not trying to make you feel bad, but I really haven't seen where properly running 3.6 996 engines have been using much if any oil, ove the various message boards, unless there was a problem. As a matter of fact, I had to suck out some oil as it was at the top of the full mark, and I've found quite a bit of info on the MB's that you really want to keep it, literally, between the HI & LO level marks, halp avoid an RMS leak. Smoothed out the idle a bit, and the engine does actually sound better. After all this you MAY just find out it is normal, but at least you WILL know it is not something obvious, so you don't do a big DOH!!!! later.

Edited May 7, 2008 by perryinva

[Jon996]

Thanks for the suggestions. it's a 6 speed, I got it CPO with about 22K on it.

I too have looked at the various sites for oil use, and there are some around that consume oil--just not to the amount I have at the moment.

Frankly, I am on CPO and the dealer will not do anything until the magic oil consumption number is reached. So if it costs them more later then so be it.

In the meantime, if a change/upgrade to the separator helps, I will fund that myself.

Given the fact it is under warranty, I do not want to start digging around by myself (as tempting as it might be) in case it might invalidate the warranty.

I would, however, like suggestion as to what I might have a mechanic check and repair, depending on how much it costs. Still seems a little silly that I should wait until it gets worse, but "thems the rules" I guess.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Jon996

[salayc]

Thanks for the suggestions. it's a 6 speed, I got it CPO with about 22K on it.

I too have looked at the various sites for oil use, and there are some around that consume oil--just not to the amount I have at the moment.

Frankly, I am on CPO and the dealer will not do anything until the magic oil consumption number is reached. So if it costs them more later then so be it.

In the meantime, if a change/upgrade to the separator helps, I will fund that myself.

Given the fact it is under warranty, I do not want to start digging around by myself (as tempting as it might be) in case it might invalidate the warranty.

I would, however, like suggestion as to what I might have a mechanic check and repair, depending on how much it costs. Still seems a little silly that I should wait until it gets worse, but "thems the rules" I guess.

Take it somewhere that can check the oil separator. There is an easy non invasive test with an instrument that is inserted into the filler neck. Don't ask me what it is, but it can find fault with the separator and I have seen it used. Where are you located? Maybe someone can suggest a mechanic to check it out.

[Jon996]

Thanks for the suggestions. it's a 6 speed, I got it CPO with about 22K on it.

I too have looked at the various sites for oil use, and there are some around that consume oil--just not to the amount I have at the moment.

Frankly, I am on CPO and the dealer will not do anything until the magic oil consumption number is reached. So if it costs them more later then so be it.

In the meantime, if a change/upgrade to the separator helps, I will fund that myself.

Given the fact it is under warranty, I do not want to start digging around by myself (as tempting as it might be) in case it might invalidate the warranty.

I would, however, like suggestion as to what I might have a mechanic check and repair, depending on how much it costs. Still seems a little silly that I should wait until it gets worse, but "thems the rules" I guess.

Take it somewhere that can check the oil separator. There is an easy non invasive test with an instrument that is inserted into the filler neck. Don't ask me what it is, but it can find fault with the separator and I have seen it used. Where are you located? Maybe someone can suggest a mechanic to check it out.

Thanks for the great suggestion--I am in the area of St. Paul/Minneapolis MN. I can check around for this, but if anyone has a suggested shop please let me know.

[1999Porsche911]

Have you tried changing to a better quality oil?

[salayc]

Thanks for the suggestions. it's a 6 speed, I got it CPO with about 22K on it.

I too have looked at the various sites for oil use, and there are some around that consume oil--just not to the amount I have at the moment.

Frankly, I am on CPO and the dealer will not do anything until the magic oil consumption number is reached. So if it costs them more later then so be it.

In the meantime, if a change/upgrade to the separator helps, I will fund that myself.

Given the fact it is under warranty, I do not want to start digging around by myself (as tempting as it might be) in case it might invalidate the warranty.

I would, however, like suggestion as to what I might have a mechanic check and repair, depending on how much it costs. Still seems a little silly that I should wait until it gets worse, but "thems the rules" I guess.

Take it somewhere that can check the oil separator. There is an easy non invasive test with an instrument that is inserted into the filler neck. Don't ask me what it is, but it can find fault with the separator and I have seen it used. Where are you located? Maybe someone can suggest a mechanic to check it out.

Thanks for the great suggestion--I am in the area of St. Paul/Minneapolis MN. I can check around for this, but if anyone has a suggested shop please let me know.

Post a request for an indy in your area over at Rennlist. Or, perhaps call around if there is another Porsche dealer and see if they'll check it out. I would have a talk with a manager at your dealer though. There's no reason they shouldn't check out your car especially if you bought it from them. Perhaps tell them your car was blowing a lot of smoke from the tailpipes...

[1999Porsche911]

If my car burned even a quart every 10,000 miles, I would make sure Porsche fixed the problem. I would make sure that their oil consumption test resulted in whatever consumption rate they needed to take action. There is no excuse for any engine to go through anywhere near the amount of oil Porsche says is normal. Rather than make a better engine, Porsche prefers to lower their standards and most people simply accept it.

[Jon996]

Thanks for the suggestions. it's a 6 speed, I got it CPO with about 22K on it.

I too have looked at the various sites for oil use, and there are some around that consume oil--just not to the amount I have at the moment.

Frankly, I am on CPO and the dealer will not do anything until the magic oil consumption number is reached. So if it costs them more later then so be it.

In the meantime, if a change/upgrade to the separator helps, I will fund that myself.

Given the fact it is under warranty, I do not want to start digging around by myself (as tempting as it might be) in case it might invalidate the warranty.

I would, however, like suggestion as to what I might have a mechanic check and repair, depending on how much it costs. Still seems a little silly that I should wait until it gets worse, but "thems the rules" I guess.

Take it somewhere that can check the oil separator. There is an easy non invasive test with an instrument that is inserted into the filler neck. Don't ask me what it is, but it can find fault with the separator and I have seen it used. Where are you located? Maybe someone can suggest a mechanic to check it out.

Thanks for the great suggestion--I am in the area of St. Paul/Minneapolis MN. I can check around for this, but if anyone has a suggested shop please let me know.

Post a request for an indy in your area over at Rennlist. Or, perhaps call around if there is another Porsche dealer and see if they'll check it out. I would have a talk with a manager at your dealer though. There's no reason they shouldn't check out your car especially if you bought it from them. Perhaps tell them your car was blowing a lot of smoke from the tailpipes...

Thanks for your support. Actually, I did talk to the manager, the salesman, and emailed the company manager. They in turn contacted the regional Porsche managers. All are taking the company line that I have not reached the magic limit yet. Hey, it runs great, have over a year on CPO, so when it gets worse they will look at it. Seems kind of odd, however. I think the financial problems have hit everyone. My past experience with high-end dealers was more flexible. To go back to my original post, I have a request in to pre-emptively try an upgraded Porsche oil separator (at a shared expense). I'll let you know later what happens. Still open to other suggestions, however.

[Jon996]

If my car burned even a quart every 10,000 miles, I would make sure Porsche fixed the problem. I would make sure that their oil consumption test resulted in whatever consumption rate they needed to take action. There is no excuse for any engine to go through anywhere near the amount of oil Porsche says is normal. Rather than make a better engine, Porsche prefers to lower their standards and most people simply accept it.

OK, just how would you make Porsche fix the problem? Just interested.

I certainly agree with your comments regarding the crazy level of oil use that Porsche feels is acceptable but can you imagine what it would cost to have a lawyer tackle the Porsche team? Perhaps the EPA would be a better bet!

[Jon996]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. Not looking to start a war, or discuss Porsche policies, etc. Really love my 996 and want to keep it running. A little less concerned because I have CPO coverage for another year.

Thus I am hoping for a few practical sugggestions that I can discuss with either my dealer (if they are willing) or an independent.

One suggestion that I had seen was the sport oil separator, a Porsche component.

Other suggestions welcome.

[1999Porsche911]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. Not looking to start a war, or discuss Porsche policies, etc. Really love my 996 and want to keep it running. A little less concerned because I have CPO coverage for another year.

Thus I am hoping for a few practical sugggestions that I can discuss with either my dealer (if they are willing) or an independent.

One suggestion that I had seen was the sport oil separator, a Porsche component.

Other suggestions welcome.

That is the problem and why Porsche continues to screw over the customer...no one will go to war with them. Until that changes, expect lower standards of quality. I would have already written the EPA as well as Porsche. I would have requested a letter from Porsche stating that it is ok for my car to burn 1 quart of oil every 600 miles. If you set your mind to it, you can make a company become quite eager to find a way to make you go away. It is both entertaining for you as well as satisfying. You don't need a lawyer to get satisfaction, just your imagination.

As I stated earlier, if you to not want a battle with Porsche, get rid of the Mobil 0W40 in your engine and you will find that your oil consumptions drops substantially.

[KevinMac]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. Not looking to start a war, or discuss Porsche policies, etc. Really love my 996 and want to keep it running. A little less concerned because I have CPO coverage for another year.

Thus I am hoping for a few practical sugggestions that I can discuss with either my dealer (if they are willing) or an independent.

One suggestion that I had seen was the sport oil separator, a Porsche component.

Other suggestions welcome.

That is the problem and why Porsche continues to screw over the customer...no one will go to war with them. Until that changes, expect lower standards of quality. I would have already written the EPA as well as Porsche. I would have requested a letter from Porsche stating that it is ok for my car to burn 1 quart of oil every 600 miles. If you set your mind to it, you can make a company become quite eager to find a way to make you go away. It is both entertaining for you as well as satisfying. You don't need a lawyer to get satisfaction, just your imagination.

As I stated earlier, if you to not want a battle with Porsche, get rid of the Mobil 0W40 in your engine and you will find that your oil consumptions drops substantially.

So what oil do you recommend!

[1999Porsche911]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. Not looking to start a war, or discuss Porsche policies, etc. Really love my 996 and want to keep it running. A little less concerned because I have CPO coverage for another year.

Thus I am hoping for a few practical sugggestions that I can discuss with either my dealer (if they are willing) or an independent.

One suggestion that I had seen was the sport oil separator, a Porsche component.

Other suggestions welcome.

That is the problem and why Porsche continues to screw over the customer...no one will go to war with them. Until that changes, expect lower standards of quality. I would have already written the EPA as well as Porsche. I would have requested a letter from Porsche stating that it is ok for my car to burn 1 quart of oil every 600 miles. If you set your mind to it, you can make a company become quite eager to find a way to make you go away. It is both entertaining for you as well as satisfying. You don't need a lawyer to get satisfaction, just your imagination.

As I stated earlier, if you to not want a battle with Porsche, get rid of the Mobil 0W40 in your engine and you will find that your oil consumptions drops substantially.

So what oil do you recommend!

At bare minimum, 5W50, but anything other than Mobil 0W40 will reduce consumption. Personal preference is 15W50 high mileage as it still contains the better cleaning agents.

[Jon996]

Interesting, my Audi tt lived on 15W50 for the summer months.

[salayc]

Thanks for your support. Actually, I did talk to the manager, the salesman, and emailed the company manager. They in turn contacted the regional Porsche managers. All are taking the company line that I have not reached the magic limit yet. Hey, it runs great, have over a year on CPO, so when it gets worse they will look at it. Seems kind of odd, however. I think the financial problems have hit everyone. My past experience with high-end dealers was more flexible. To go back to my original post, I have a request in to pre-emptively try an upgraded Porsche oil separator (at a shared expense). I'll let you know later what happens. Still open to other suggestions, however.

Don't offer to pay for a new oil separator if it doesn't need one. Most shops have a diagnose fee. At Porsche Downtown LA it's $185. I would offer to pay that at the most and if it turns out the separator is bad, they should have no problem replacing it under warranty. At that point you could smugly ask for your diagnostic fee back if you are so inclined.

[perryinva]

I thought the improved AOSs went in in 2001..is there a newer one?

[Danyol]

My post from another thread -

I may be an anomaly, and I'm almost afraid to say; my 996 Pcars consumed/consume very little oil blush.gif

2002 C4S - Owned 2 yrs added 16k miles (6 track days), oil changes at 5k maybe added 0.5 L between changes

2003 TT - Owned 9 mths, purchased with 20k (changed oil straight away) now 25k mls (1 track day) and it has dropped 1 "bar" on the display. Always cool turbos before turning off, very occasionally see "smokescreen" at startup.

My cars are daily drivers, average commute 15 miles highway if traveling to office. After reading all the stories of what's "normal" and within specs I would have expected to use more. unsure.gif

Edited May 9, 2008 by Danyol

[KevinMac]

The only problems I have with 5w-50 or 15W-50 LL, they do not carry the European car formula and protection formula of which Porsche recommends. 0w-40 is the only Mobil 1 that does. So I am on the fence. Man if it were only easy!

Edited May 9, 2008 by KevinMac

[perryinva]

The only problems I have with 5w-50 or 15W-50 LL, they do not carry the European car formula and protection formula of which Porsche recommends. 0w-40 is the only Mobil 1 that does. So I am on the fence. Man if it were only easy!

Really?? I swore I saw 5W-40 with the Euro car symbol, I know the 15-50 isn't, & I'd never use that with a Variocam car, anyway...I know Valvoline makes one for the VW's that the dealer stocks and I use for my Passat, I think it is also 5W-40...I haven't checked to see if it is on the Porsche approved oil list, though, I'd assume it is. Not sure I've seen 5W-50 anywhere..

[salayc]

I thought the improved AOSs went in in 2001..is there a newer one?

The AOS went in my 2001. I just recently saw an even newer version on a factory replacement engine without bellows.

[c70Pete]

maybe oil is leaking/sweating from your variocam seals? could that cause such a high rate of oil usage...?

[salayc]

maybe oil is leaking/sweating from your variocam seals? could that cause such a high rate of oil usage...?

I think you would see dripping.

[KevinMac]

The only problems I have with 5w-50 or 15W-50 LL, they do not carry the European car formula and protection formula of which Porsche recommends. 0w-40 is the only Mobil 1 that does. So I am on the fence. Man if it were only easy!

Really?? I swore I saw 5W-40 with the Euro car symbol, I know the 15-50 isn't, & I'd never use that with a Variocam car, anyway...I know Valvoline makes one for the VW's that the dealer stocks and I use for my Passat, I think it is also 5W-40...I haven't checked to see if it is on the Porsche approved oil list, though, I'd assume it is. Not sure I've seen 5W-50 anywhere..

Last I saw Mobil 1 5w-40 is for Diesels and only specifies diesel compliance nothing about European compliance.