An M96 Drive Log

[mjsupp09]

Good evening all,

 

I was able to get out and run the car yesterday with the durametric plugged in. I know most lean to replacing the IMS, but at a cost of 3-4k and addressing only a single mode of failure (though quite possibly the most famous), I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start setting aside funds for a F6 or RND "new" engine.

 

I have read monitoring camshaft deviation values and their rapid fluctuation at different RPM is one documented way to assess the viability of the IMSB/IMS. I've hooked the car up three times. Bank 1 likes to hang out at -6/-6.5 (and is out of spec). Bank 2 likes to hang out around -2.8. I would welcome any feedback on the logs I captured this weekend. I don't think I should be overly concerned, as there was no acute fluctuation across different RPMs and the change was in one direction. Thank you!

 

Additional details: MY00 cabriolet; No prior IMSB replacement; Probably 15-30 small metal flakes (.3-1mm) in the oil filter.

 

 

2019_07_07_10_54_54-formatted (2).xls

[Uwon]

Following......

[judgejon]

Did you say metal flakes?

Don’t wait, do the IMS right away.  

You will have immediate peace of mind. 

[JFP in PA]

10 hours ago, mjsupp09 said:

Good evening all,

 

I was able to get out and run the car yesterday with the durametric plugged in. I know most lean to replacing the IMS, but at a cost of 3-4k and addressing only a single mode of failure (though quite possibly the most famous), I wonder if it wouldn't be better to start setting aside funds for a F6 or RND "new" engine.

 

I have read monitoring camshaft deviation values and their rapid fluctuation at different RPM is one documented way to assess the viability of the IMSB/ IMS. I've hooked the car up three times. Bank 1 likes to hang out at -6/-6.5 (and is out of spec). Bank 2 likes to hang out around -2.8. I would welcome any feedback on the logs I captured this weekend. I don't think I should be overly concerned, as there was no acute fluctuation across different RPMs and the change was in one direction. Thank you!

 

Additional details: MY00 cabriolet; No prior IMSB replacement; Probably 15-30 small metal flakes (.3-1mm) in the oil filter.

 

 

2019_07_07_10_54_54-formatted (2).xls 369 kB · 1 download

 

I would have to agree that you appear to have the early signs of an IMS issue, but I cannot agree that your best path forward is to replace the bearing.  If any of the metal flakes you see in the filter are ferrous, your engine would fail prequalification for an IMS retrofit if it were in my shop.  LN and Jake Raby have for years cautioned against retrofitting engines with ferrous debris already circulating in them as the debris has a high probability of getting into the open retrofit bearing and tearing it up.

 

Check the metal flakes with a magnet, if any are picked up, you would be better off looking for another engine.  Good luck.

[judgejon]

Good call, Jeff. 

It may already be too late. 

Good luck, mj..

[JFP in PA]

People tend to forget that the IMS retrofit process is a preventative measure, not one to try and repair an engine that is already on its way out...…..

[judgejon]

Exactly so.  

And it’s a retrofit I’ve never regretted and would highly recommend to all for peace of mind.  Permanent Solution LNE seems best way to go.  

[JFP in PA]

1 hour ago, judgejon said:

Exactly so.  

And it’s a retrofit I’ve never regretted and would highly recommend to all for peace of mind.  Permanent Solution LNE seems best way to go.  

 

The IMS Solution is by far the only permanent fix for this issue, and is also the only retrofit that can actually be moved from one engine to another. It is what I use in my personal vehicles.

[mjsupp09]

Interesting. I was unaware the IMS Solution was susceptible to failure. My other thought had been to install the Solution.

 

There was ferrous metal in the filter, though not all of it was. Attached is a pic I have after combing through the filter.

 

So at this point, the decision is save for a new engine (and run the one I have until failure); or rebuilt the existing? Anyone know what the going figures are for this?

[JFP in PA]

13 hours ago, mjsupp09 said:

Interesting. I was unaware the IMS Solution was susceptible to failure. My other thought had been to install the Solution.

 

There was ferrous metal in the filter, though not all of it was. Attached is a pic I have after combing through the filter.

 

So at this point, the decision is save for a new engine (and run the one I have until failure); or rebuilt the existing? Anyone know what the going figures are for this?

 

The LN IMS Solution unique design makes it the least susceptible to failure because it uses freshly filtered oil for lubrication, and as a point of fact, no IMS Solution had ever been reported as having failed.  That said, all other retrofits are "open" style bearings, meaning they use unfiltered splash oil for lubrication, which would allow the metal grit you have found to get into the bearings, shortening their lives.  At the same time, with that grit circulating in the engine, it is only a matter of time before it claims one of the lifters, cams, or even the rod or crank bearings.

 

These engines are known to generate small amounts of aluminum debris in their oil, which (as long as the amounts remain small) is not an item of concern.  Ferrous debris on the other hand is much more abrasive and destructive, as well as being a sign of a major component starting to fail.  Once ferrous grit starts to appear, it only gets worse.

 

As for replacements engines, you need to shop you local market to see what is available, you may be able to find a good engine in the $4-5K range; a rebuild on the other hand is going to be expensive, perhaps it the $10-15K range depending upon what needs to be updated or replaced.  Engine removal and installation costs would be on top of that.

[judgejon]

Consider x51.  

Good luck

Edited July 10, 2019 by judgejon

[tony z]

Jake has a video on Youtube that shows how to use an endoscope thru the oil sump to access if cylinder scoring is, or has, occurred.  I would suggest that you should check it out and determine whether you want to do that. Scopes are quite cheap and accessing the sump is quite easy.

 

cheers