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newly installed rear speakers


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man!! soooo disappointed!!! bought the pnp rear speakers, found the instaler, have them put in and sound came out terrible!!! well, maybe not terrible but totally not what i have expected from a $235 speaker. when i fade all the way to be back, it sounds like... like... sound covered in the box(lots of bass & flat). now my front speakers sound wonderfully good comparing to the back. i really wonder if the installer connected the wire right?!! my boxster is a 2003, the amp in the front trunk read: becker model be6600, s/n# 986 xxx xxx......., made in germany( i called becker in nj last week, the tech said becker doesnt even make this model???). according to the installer, this becker be6600 is a 4 channels amp. could this be the problem???? :help: :(

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Wupe,

I saw your posts on the Babblers Board. I've put in two sets of the PNP speakers - one in my 2000 and the other in my friend's 2002. Both of these cars had the CDR-220 radio/cd player. I'm not sure what headunit is in your 03.

The PNP speakers add some "spaciousness" to the sound, but by themselves they won't sound that great. I'm happy with my PNP kit, but I wasn't expecting it to have a miraculous effect on the sound in my Boxster. If you have the stock 4-channel amp, the PNP speakers will be running off the head unit, so there won't be much power going to the rear speakers. That is how mine are operating and I find it to be an improvement over the stock sound. Maybe my expectations for improvement were lower than yours.

That said, it is possible that the technician made a mistake installing your kit. At one point in the operation, the installer must insert the wires from the rear speakers into a connector that fits into the back of the radio. The numbers on that connector - they designate where each wire should go - are very hard to see. If he was in a hurry it is possible that he put the wires in the wrong space on the connector and as a result the speakers are not in phase with the other speakers in your car. You might ask him to double check the wiring.

Good luck.

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kevin,

the installer did not take out the head unit, he just wired it to the becker be6600 amp(he said it is a 4channels) in the front trunk. maybe i should ask him to re-wire to the head unit instead or just buy a new amp. would a 6 channels and 4 channels make any difference?? :(

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kevin,

the installer did not take out the head unit, he just wired it to the becker be6600 amp(he said it is a 4channels) in the front trunk. maybe i should ask him to re-wire to the head unit instead or just buy a new amp. would a 6 channels and 4 channels make any difference?? :(

Don't bother. No difference whatsoever in my experience.

That's why lots of people reselling rear speaker in fleebay.

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wupe,

the rear speakers are small and are meant to change the placement of the soundstage from the front of the car to the middle. the rear speakers are meant to 'fill in' the sound, not so much to 'replace' the front speakers.

what your installer *might* have done is he tapped into the door speaker wires at the amp, which are only providing BASS frequencies to the speakers. this could be the reason that your speakers don't sound the way you'd expect. from your description of the sound, it sounds like this is a real possibility. i'll bet you $1 this is what happened.

since the speakers are so small, i don't think that you need amp channels to drive them. i drive mine right off of the stereo and they sound great. i would get rid of the rear speaker/amp connection and just wire the speakers up to the stereo. this way you'll get all the frequencies. i thought that the PNP kit came with the connector to wire them directly to the stereo. if not, contact the guy that sells the PNP kit. i hear he is very reasonable. just tell him what happened. maybe he'll set you up with another cable/connector.

also, make sure you add some polyester fill (pillow stuffing) behind the rear speaker kit for better sound.

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chris, i think u r right, he must have tapped the wires to the door speakers, will ask him to connect it to the head unit tomorrow. 2 questions before i ask him to to that: 1. should be battery be disconnected??? 2. do i need the radio code?

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1. I disconnected my battery because I'm always concerned about electrical shorts when I'm around wiring. Also, the instructions I used called for fishing the speaker wire through thea area beneath the passenger door and warned about possible interaction with the side air bag wiring.

2. If you disconnect the battery, you will need the radio code. You are going to need it eventually (e.g. dead batery) so you might as well get it. I think the dealer can provide it to you.

I think Chris' theory about tapping into the door speaker wiring is worth checking into. You either have much higher standards for car audio than I do, or something is wrong.

Edited by KevinH90
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chris, i think u r right, he must have tapped the wires to the door speakers, will ask him to connect it to the head unit tomorrow. 2 questions before i ask him to to that: 1. should be battery be disconnected??? 2. do i need the radio code?

to hook up speaker wire, you shouldn't have to disconnect the battery. there's no real current in the speaker wire, and you're not really at risk of shorting anything.

you won't need a radio code for your 2003.

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If you have a Becker BE6600, this is part number 996.645.331.##. It is a fibre optic, 6-channel amp. Like this:

post-6002-1165201888_thumb.jpg

post-6002-1165201926_thumb.jpg

(The above photo of the wiring harness is before I added the kit.)

Run the rear speaker wires into the wiring harness at the amp using these pin positions:

Left rear: (+)12 and (-)3

Right rear: (+)4 and (-)13

The pin positions for the rear speakers are unused from the factory.

If your installer thinks this is a 4-channel amp, perhaps they pulled the pins from the door speakers (positions 7/16 and 8/17) and plugged your rear speakers into there. (?)

--Brian

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q-ship, thanks for the photo, yes it is exactly what i have becker be6600 in my 2003 boxster. what if you are right, the installer pulled the pins from the door speakers and plugged the rear speakers into there, but why i can still hear the bass from the door?

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q-ship, thanks for the photo, yes it is exactly what i have becker be6600 in my 2003 boxster. what if you are right, the installer pulled the pins from the door speakers and plugged the rear speakers into there, but why i can still hear the bass from the door?

Well, I was just offering a possibility...I didn't know you still have bass from the door speakers. I guess we really don't know what the installer did.

At this point, I would take the above information to your installer, or check into it yourself, and go from there.

--Brian

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q-ship, thanks for the photo, yes it is exactly what i have becker be6600 in my 2003 boxster. what if you are right, the installer pulled the pins from the door speakers and plugged the rear speakers into there, but why i can still hear the bass from the door?

sounds like he tapped/spliced into the door speaker wires, so that the bass signals are being sent to the doors AND rear speakers.

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Wupe,

He probably either reversed the polarity (and thus the phasing of the rears is fighting w/ the dash & doors) or spliced them into either the dash or door speaker wires - which could cause a # of problems:

- rears are only meant for mid to high notes, feeds for doors have a filter in the amp which allows them only to get low (bass notes). think of it as trying to squeeze and egg thru the opening on a wine bottle (not a screw top either wink.gif ). It just ain't gonna work.

- changing the impedence/resistance now placed on the amp if spliced into either the doors or dash speakers. Door speakers are 2ohm - rears as set up by PNP are 2, and dash are 4 ohm. If he spliced them into the doors, they are now have a combined rating of 3+ ohm (thus reducing the 'effectiveness' of the amp and the speakers ability to produce sound - reduced by 1/3 to 1/2) . If spliced into dash feeds, same thing but impedence is now 5+ (vs 4 originally) again reducing the 'effectiveness' of the amp and the speakers ability to produce sound.

I'd either pull the amp and see what the installer did or contact harvey at PNP for help. He is a great guy and glad to help out. You can email him directly - harveypnp at comcast dot net (delete spaces, change @, and dot to .) I think he frequents this board too so maybe he'll see this??

Or, if you can take a picture of the wiring harness at the amp and post here, we might be able to help understand what the installer did. The good news is, most of the hard part is done. Now we just need to help you clean it up and get it all 100%.

Let us know and good luck

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I know it doesn't add anything to the discussion, but this topic makes me glad I held out for the Bose system. Enter all negative Bose comments here:

just because his 'installer' doesn't know how to install speakers doesn't mean that Bose is better! ;)

seriously, if he skipped the trip to the installer and just plugged it into the radio, none of this would have happened.

i have a friend that works at Bose and even *he* thinks that they have a 'good' product and an EXCELLENT marketing department! :notworthy:

i have heard that the Bose system is really expensive. did you pick yours up after you bought the car (i.e. not delivered installed from the factory?) what did it cost (if you don't mind?)

i put together a pretty decent system: Nakamichi CD-500 HU, MB Quart dash/door speakers, Pioneer TSA878 rear speakers (these speakers had better freq response than most of the so-called 'higher-end' speakers), and a Kenwood KSC-SW1 slimline subwoofer (hasn't arrived yet.) total cost was $500+40+70+50+140 = $720. i would still like to upgrade the factory amp, which i will do in the spring. just wondering how that cost compares to the Bose system. ?

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I know it doesn't add anything to the discussion, but this topic makes me glad I held out for the Bose system. Enter all negative Bose comments here:

just because his 'installer' doesn't know how to install speakers doesn't mean that Bose is better! ;)

seriously, if he skipped the trip to the installer and just plugged it into the radio, none of this would have happened.

i have a friend that works at Bose and even *he* thinks that they have a 'good' product and an EXCELLENT marketing department! :notworthy:

i have heard that the Bose system is really expensive. did you pick yours up after you bought the car (i.e. not delivered installed from the factory?) what did it cost (if you don't mind?)

i put together a pretty decent system: Nakamichi CD-500 HU, MB Quart dash/door speakers, Pioneer TSA878 rear speakers (these speakers had better freq response than most of the so-called 'higher-end' speakers), and a Kenwood KSC-SW1 slimline subwoofer (hasn't arrived yet.) total cost was $500+40+70+50+140 = $720. i would still like to upgrade the factory amp, which i will do in the spring. just wondering how that cost compares to the Bose system. ?

I've done my share of upgrades over the years and the thread reminded me of the mega challenges some installations have posed before getting it "right".

My system came with the car and, quite truthfully, it's not as if we have to be too concerned with filling a huge volume with sound. This has in the past always been my challenge (much bigger cars). That being said, I'm sure there's a vast array of excellent products out there that rival the performance of the Bose. Again, I'm just happy I didn't have to do anything this time around.

On another note (pun intended), I'm just hoping I don't experience the same problems with the amps in my Vette's stock Bose system that led me to replace the whole thing owing to the high price in getting the amps replaced!

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seriously, if he skipped the trip to the installer and just plugged it into the radio, none of this would have happened.

If you have the a 2003 or 2004 with the M490 sound package, you get the 6-channel amp (noted above) and door speakers. If you then add the rear speaker kit, whether it is the PNA kit or the PNP kit, you connect to the amp (as noted above), taking advantage of the 2 unused channels. The PNP kit comes with the harness and pins necessary to connect to the amp (as long as you tell Harvey in advance that you have a 2003/04 with factory M490).

I am not sure why you would connect the rear speakers directly to the CDR-23 if you have the M490 system; the only reason I can think is if you did not want to route the wiring into the front trunk.

--Brian

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If you have the CDR-23 with external amp in the front trunk then it is a 6 channel amp. As stated above, there are 2 unused channels that can be used for rear speakers. There is a place on the back of the radio to plug in a speaker connector but it does not work.

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I am not sure why you would connect the rear speakers directly to the CDR-23 if you have the M490 system; the only reason I can think is if you did not want to route the wiring into the front trunk.

--Brian

the M490 system up to a certain model year only had a 4 channel amp. sounds like the latest version has the 6 channel amp.

as Tool Pants pointed out, (i didn't know this) some radio models have the interface for the rear speakers, but it doesn't work, and the rear speakers must be connected to the amp. am i understanding this correctly?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, I installed 2 speakers in the rear compartment by cutting out an opening in the 2 pockets at each end.

Then i connected the speakers in series with the front and to my CDR210 radio and the door speakers (6.5 diameter) to the radio also.

The sound is reasonable now and the project cost me $60.00 and 3hours of my time.

If anybody wants any pics i'd be glad to take some photos and post them for u.

:jump:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi - interesting thread as my 52 facelift had Bose in it from new. However the CDR23 died last week - no outputs so it seems the circuit board was fried (I suspect dodgy phone kit wiring) and rather than try and fix it I got a new Sony CDX-NC9950 head unit. The Bose Amp being fibre optic didn't mate with it so an Alpine amp drives the sub as the head is good enough to drive all the front and doors.

Result - well the sound is now awesome compared to the Bose as the fronts and doors are performing really well! That said it now shows how pants the Sub is - what is the preferred swap for the Bose Sub anyone??

Anyone want a slightly used CDR23 plus Bose 6 channel amp?? Or can anyone advise on a circuit board swap for the CDR23?

Cheers :D

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