Aftermarket Exhaust Options and Opinions

[gristy]

Hey All,

What are everyones thoughts and experience with aftermarket performance mufflers?? I have read a lot of positive and negative stuff in different posts but was wondering if i could pick everyones brains one last time! Like previous posts i am after "the sound" but a few BHP would be nice as well! I am not expecting big gains but 5+ would be nice. My lines of thought are either

- Standard Muffler and install cat-bypass pipes

- Performance Muffler from Borla/Dansk/Stebro (does anyone have any experience with any of these) and keep the rest bog standard

Any help or points of view gratefully received.

Thanks

Gristy

2000 2.7 Boxster

[Loren]

I personally have yet to see either an after market or Porsche sport muffler system produce even 1 BHP more than you already had.

For my feelings on some of these hyped products see my blog here.

[gristy]

Thanks Loren, most appreciated! Just would like it to sound a little more meaty!

[hooster]

I've thought about this one too...one of the most economical is from maxspeed-motorsports...they have eBay listings with videos. Direct bolt-on swap of the muffler or headers too if you are so inclined. They have a video posted on eBay and YouTube...just look up "Boxster Muffler". It's hard to tell a difference when you are not physically there to experience it and that is why I hesitate. Probably won't add much HP but will probably decrease the weight by 10-20 lbs. from what I hear. You could desnorkel to get some more sound as well.

[gristy]

Yeah its a tough one!! I am anti the desnorkel for a couple of reasons, the main one being it would be just my luck that someone will throw a cigarette out their window - straight into my pride and joy's newly desnorkeled air intake and mess things up nicely.

I quite like the look and sound of the Stebro but i am apprehensive as i haven't heard any reviews from anyone with the exhaust actually fitted.

I don't want to waste my money but i want the Boxster to sound a bit more meaty!

[hooster]

Yeah its a tough one!! I am anti the desnorkel for a couple of reasons, the main one being it would be just my luck that someone will throw a cigarette out their window - straight into my pride and joy's newly desnorkeled air intake and mess things up nicely.

I quite like the look and sound of the Stebro but i am apprehensive as i haven't heard any reviews from anyone with the exhaust actually fitted.

I don't want to waste my money but i want the Boxster to sound a bit more meaty!

I have your solution to the cigarette butt...(see picture)...I have cut and installed wire mesh to cover the side vents...it has a neoprene rubber trim to protect the car. I made them in silver and black when I was selling them on eBay for fun. It was a race to the bottom with some people who bought mine and then copied and sold for cheaper...so I simply stopped selling...however I have a few stock pieces left over if you want to pay for shipping!

Edited August 25, 2007 by hooster

[phillipj]

Hey All,

What are everyones thoughts and experience with aftermarket performance mufflers?? I have read a lot of positive and negative stuff in different posts but was wondering if i could pick everyones brains one last time! Like previous posts i am after "the sound" but a few BHP would be nice as well! I am not expecting big gains but 5+ would be nice. My lines of thought are either

- Standard Muffler and install cat-bypass pipes

- Performance Muffler from Borla/Dansk/Stebro (does anyone have any experience with any of these) and keep the rest bog standard

Any help or points of view gratefully received.

Thanks

Gristy

2000 2.7 Boxster

Gristy,

Whatever you decide regarding mufflers do not install the cat bypass pipes!! I made that mistake on my 996. Total loss of low end torque and a really awful exhaust note (sounded like a Honda). I returned them to the company for a refund after much complaining.

Don't let the aftermarket companies fool you into believing you will get power gains from Mufflers and Cat Bypass.

I have Fabspeed mufflers on my 996 and I love them. I have no idea about their mufflers for a Boxter though.

It is a really personal thing regarding sound. Try to find a car near you (if possible) with the mufflers you are thinking about so you can hear the sound in person.

Just wanted to save you some grief and some cash. :cheers:

Phillipj

[gristy]

Wow, that sucks - i had seen a few posts on here about people leaving the muffler stock and putting on the bypass pipes to good effect - thanks for the heads up phillip!

Might take the plunge when i get back to the US - will let you all know how i get on. Thanks for all the help and advice.

[jmatta]

I have this modified factory muffler on my '02 S...very simple to do and the sound is excellent. Low rumble/burble at idle, rips pretty good under hard acceleration. I also have the EVO Hi Flow intake which provides an incredible induction sound...no CEL with either of these mods.

[phillipj]

Wow, that sucks - i had seen a few posts on here about people leaving the muffler stock and putting on the bypass pipes to good effect - thanks for the heads up phillip!

Might take the plunge when i get back to the US - will let you all know how i get on. Thanks for all the help and advice.

Gristy,

There may be people that have liked the Cat Bypass but on my car they were terrible. I spoke to many Porsche Techs and they told me the car would simply not run properly without at least 50 cell cats.

The exhaust system was designed with the cats in mind. Removing them changes that design. The aftermarket people will tell you that a normally aspirated cars will benefit from the "lack" of back pressure. From what I'm told (and my own experience) that's a bunch of crap.

I would take the advice from the Boxter owners on this site and see what they have found to be the best products for your car.

Good luck and I'm glad to help (if I did.)

Take care! :cheers:

Phillipj

[hooster]

I have this modified factory muffler on my '02 S...very simple to do and the sound is excellent. Low rumble/burble at idle, rips pretty good under hard acceleration. I also have the EVO Hi Flow intake which provides an incredible induction sound...no CEL with either of these mods.

This has nothing to do with the exhaust discussion...how do you like your modified retractable spoiler? I've debated in my head whether or not I should change for the "pass-through" look instead of the "block" look. Do you feel that the spoiler looks too small without the solid bracket? Has there been any change in the feel of the car at high speed? Thanks for any input.

[jmatta]

This has nothing to do with the exhaust discussion...how do you like your modified retractable spoiler? I've debated in my head whether or not I should change for the "pass-through" look instead of the "block" look. Do you feel that the spoiler looks too small without the solid bracket? Has there been any change in the feel of the car at high speed? Thanks for any input.

Not to highjack gristy's thread, but I personally like the new spoiler. I feel it gives the car an updated look (read Cayman) and is admired by fellow P-car owners, as well. Very simple to swap back and forth, if needed. As I don't track this car (my 911 serves that duty), I cannot comment on high speed stability, as I only drive highway speeds with absolutely no ill effect. "Does the spoiler look too small?" Not at all; in fact it emphasizes the fact there is a spoiler, as opposed to the lip of the standard spoiler.

[gristy]

No apology for "hijacking" necessary. I am really interested in everyones experience with Boxter tuning.

I admit that this particular thread was purely sound related. More than anything i didn't want to bolt something on that messed up the cars every day running!!

I am new to Porsche totally and value everyones input!

:renntech:

P.s the spoiler is awesome, where did you get it!

[jmatta]

Hi gristy,

As for sound, the german modified was the sound I was looking for out of my S. The stock exhaust was just too quiet and some of the aftermarket just didn't do it for me. I had a Fabspeed (Dansk) on order for two months and finally gave up. In a way, I'm glad because that muffler probably would have been a little too quiet. The modified gives a nice deep burble at idle, more exhaust sound on acceleration and a bit of rasp on full throttle. There is no resonating at certain rpms, unlike aftermarket and is closely modeled after Porsche's own sport exhaust (but with permanent bypass pipes). I bought mine already modified ,but if you search the archives, others (LuisR) made their own mod. As far as the lip spoiler, you can purchase these off eBay pre-painted for $199...very easy to install and completely reversible. One of these days I'll post a sound clip.

Edited August 30, 2007 by jmatta

[986Jim]

Dyno tested headers and exhaust:

http://986forum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=...mp;postcount=57

Headers made 10hp 18ft/lbs

Muffler made 5hp 1ft/lbs

So the muffler does make HP, 5hp is not a lot, but guess what it is an improvement and more importantly not a loss.

Now obviously don't go buying a muffler for a 5hp improvement cause you will be quite disappointed when you don't feel it. Buy it for the sound and the look. Headers have proven to give quite an increase in power.

[986Jim]

The exhaust system was designed with the cats in mind. Removing them changes that design. The aftermarket people will tell you that a normally aspirated cars will benefit from the "lack" of back pressure. From what I'm told (and my own experience) that's a bunch of crap.

Actually what the after market companies tell you is entirely correct, what your told is "a bunch of crap" unfortunately.

The less back pressure you have on your exhaust the more HP and the faster your car will be. Needing back pressure is ONLY on a 2 stroke engine. This was though to be the case about 20 years ago but when we actually woke up and knew something about exhaust flow and how a 4 stroke engine works we have since realized that is not the case.

Here are some random googles:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/...etorquemyth.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question172.htm

Even on the most high strung engines if you just put on a header and basically no exhaust at all it will be disgustingly loud but it will make more power. On a honda lets say, with a 1.8L GSR (B18C) engine, the optimum exhaust system for racing is a header and full 3" exhaust with no cat no muffler no resonator. It will make more top end power than any other setup, (other than just an open header but generally not allowed in most racing circuits).

Unfortunately this is a non-debatable area so please don't come back to me with this mid range torque answer etc etc.. thats a bunch of BS. Nobody cares about mid range torque unless your towing a trailer. So put a trailer on your Porsche then come complain to me and I'll listen. Otherwise the smallest amount of back pressure you can put on your car is the best for top end HP which is where you want it to go fast.

Exhaust systems are designed with every other factor considered except HP. Meetings todays ever stricter noise and emissions regulation is what stipulates an exhaust systems size bends muffler design etc. Not HP. That is the last consideration unless the companies are directly violating it (Lambo, Ferrari, CGT etc..) and don't care.

If you remove any restriction (the cats are one of the largest sources, second are the horrible manifold designs used by Porsche) you will make more power. Goto a dyno with your secondary cat bypass and you will make some small measure of hp increase. It may not be a lot and may make your car sound horrible in the process so the increase may not be worth it. If you were full out racing you would have a header straight pipe to basically the smallest muffler (or no muffler) that your racing series would allow because that would make the highest amount of peak hp which is exactly what you want.

Not trying to sound rude or upset anybody etc, please don't take it that way. I have worked on a race team and races small displacement n/a cars for about 8 years now and we made 269whp from a 2.0L normally aspirated and have tested every exhaust combination you can think of. I have built street cars for guys who street race hardcore and want fast cars to guys who race in auto-x etc. I dyno cars and change parts at the dyno to measure increases in power. Hell my dad races a Nissan Maxima and made 292whp normally aspirated, his highest HP run was with headers straight pipe no cat and no muffler on a VQ35DE which is a 350Z motor in a 4th gen maxima.

Watch this youtube clip of a 986 race car http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1-hZ2VLKiQ...ted&search=

Read the comments by the clip poster about what exhaust system he is running on a race car, now ask yourself why he would be doing that?

Regards,

Edited August 31, 2007 by 986Jim

[gristy]

Just checked out that YouTube clip - awesome, probably a tad loud for an everyday drive!!

Just reading your own cars spec, how do you find the Maxspeed that you have? To be brutally honest with you all i am thinking of taking the plunge with the Stebro muffler once i get back to the US from my trip. I will give it some hard thought on the plane, if i do ill post pics and review as soon as its done.

Standby, firing!!

[986Jim]

Just checked out that YouTube clip - awesome, probably a tad loud for an everyday drive!!

Just reading your own cars spec, how do you find the Maxspeed that you have? To be brutally honest with you all i am thinking of taking the plunge with the Stebro muffler once i get back to the US from my trip. I will give it some hard thought on the plane, if i do ill post pics and review as soon as its done.

Standby, firing!!

Its an exact copy of the evom exhaust. It's quiet at normal driving and loud when you stop on it. I have a clip on you tube. If you search boxster exhaust on you tube, my youtube name is DSMJim I think. I have a few clips on there from my car.

I would highly recommend the maxspeed exhaust it sounds great looks great, and boy did I feel that extra 5hp hahahaha.

[VRsyncro]

Its an exact copy of the evom exhaust. It's quiet at normal driving and loud when you stop on it. I have a clip on you tube. If you search boxster exhaust on you tube, my youtube name is DSMJim I think. I have a few clips on there from my car.

I would highly recommend the maxspeed exhaust it sounds great looks great, and boy did I feel that extra 5hp hahahaha.

Hey Jim, found your video, sounds great! Are you running upgraded headers and cats as well?

Also noticed you used to run a MKIII VR6? I just sold my VR6 Turbo. Glad to see that all paths eventually lead to Porsche :)

Just wondering what the ID of the pipes going into the exhaust are for the Maxspeed setup?

Anyone have experience with the Fabspeed or Instant-G exhaust setups?

[gristy]

Not sure if i am stoopid or not but i took the plunge and ordered a Stebro exhaust...... Will keep you all posted on the whole process, if you are interested!

So far the sales guy, Dan, has been both helpful and patient with my myriad of questions, this will truly be tested when he realizes that i can barely change a bulb and have no idea how to put the top into service mode (not that i need to before all the replies, just an example of my technical skill).

Standby

Gristy

:jump:

[986Jim]

Its an exact copy of the evom exhaust. It's quiet at normal driving and loud when you stop on it. I have a clip on you tube. If you search boxster exhaust on you tube, my youtube name is DSMJim I think. I have a few clips on there from my car.

I would highly recommend the maxspeed exhaust it sounds great looks great, and boy did I feel that extra 5hp hahahaha.

Hey Jim, found your video, sounds great! Are you running upgraded headers and cats as well?

Also noticed you used to run a MKIII VR6? I just sold my VR6 Turbo. Glad to see that all paths eventually lead to Porsche :)

Just wondering what the ID of the pipes going into the exhaust are for the Maxspeed setup?

Anyone have experience with the Fabspeed or Instant-G exhaust setups?

Yeah thats it. I posted this from work and they block youtube so I couldn't put up the link thanks for that. I did run a MK3 GTi with DP nitrous never tracked it tho, and my talon has video's on there as well...

The ID on the muffler is the stock ID for the exhaust system 2" or 2 1/4" or whatever it is. I'm still runnin stock headers and cat but I have headers now just need to install them, prob this sunday I'll put it on the hoist. My car is a 99 so only one cat which is nice. The headers make 12hp and 18ft/lbs so I'm looking forward to that I'll tell ya.

[caffeinetrip]

I just put on the Stebro racing exhaust yesterday and I love it!!!!!!! I bought it used off of another member that thought it was way too loud for daily driving....and it kind of is.

Pros: The tips look pretty good, since it uses the dual "boxster S" looking design.

It weighs A LOT less than the stock. I think its around 7lbs vs 25lbs+

It sounds exactly like a Ferrari tearing down the street but only after 4,000rpm (I live near Beverly Hills so I hear Ferrari's tear down the street daily and know what it sounds like)

Cons: It is extremely loud from 2,000-3,000rpm and can get extremely annoying.

You'll end up cruising the freeway and streets at 4k rpm because of the sound point, which will cut into your gas mileage and put additional wear on your car.

Even though it was direct bolt on, my muffler guy had to weld additional brackets to make it fit perfectly (total install was $100)

[nickg]

can you post a sound clip of it(the stebro)

[caffeinetrip]

can you post a sound clip of it(the stebro)

Sure. I need to make it first, but I'll definitely do that for you guys this week. The one on the Stebro website doesn't do it justice at all. For now here's a picture of it installed.

[gristy]

Well the Stebro arrived today after a bit of faffing around, not on Stebro's part - they were very helpful. The shipping company had some "issues" yesterday (when they were supposed to deliver it) so i asked them to deliver to my office. Nothing. Got home tonight and there it was!!!!

First impressions? It looks really well made and much lighter/smaller than stock - quite similar to the Borla exhaust i think. I am going to attempt to swap it out myself either this weekend or the next, once i can persuade someone to give me a hand! If not its off to a garage! Ill try and take some pictures tomorrow to post.

Thanks

Martin

:renntech: