Advice on buying a 911

[jzwu]

Hello,

I am new here and I just joined this forum. I have a BMW 3-series for a few years now and I am looking to get a 1999-2002 Porsche 911 (996). Folks on the BMW forum (E46fanatics) referred me to this forum. I have been reading here for a few days and found it very informational and helpful - the first few pinned threads.

Now based on my very limited reading so far, it seems that the 996 is a good deal but with a few caveats as I summarized below. Here you gurus please chime in with your experience, knowledge and opinions. Nothing beats real world ownership experience. I need your help to solidify my decision to get a Porsche. It is my childhood dream and I hope to fulfill it at least once in my lifetime. I love driving and it is one of very few things I really enjoy a lot. Sorry for the long post.

911 (996) 1999-2004 engine issues:

- Intermix problem: requires engine replacement

- Intermediate shaft bearing failure: requires engine replacement/rebuild but may be fixed with aftermarket kits (LN engineering) as a preventive measure

- Engine rear main seal leak: fix requires dropping the engine but can be done at the same time with clutch work

I also realized that Porsche repairs are expensive mostly due to the tight space requiring dropping the engine/ transmission for most major work.

Thanks for your advice and help!

Jzwu

[Rennsource]

I have a 2002 996 with 51K miles. I read somewhere that the engine issues were not as prone to hit the tiptronic transmission cars (knock on wood) I drive in DC traffic, so while a lot of the time I wish I had the 6 speed, I went for the tiptronic and it's still a blast to drive. You can get amazing deals on '99 to '04s. They changed the headlights in '02 to bi-xenon which I think look better than the 'fried egg' pre '02 lights.

Pick up Adrian Streathers 996 book for model year to year info.

here's a nice 99 996: 99 996

[jzwu]

Thanks for the info. It is very helpful. I have seen '99-'02 996s selling for low to mid $20k here in CA.

Another question, what's mki and mkii? I heard to get mkii if possible.

[demosan]

Thanks for the info. It is very helpful. I have seen '99-'02 996s selling for low to mid $20k here in CA.

Another question, what's mki and mkii? I heard to get mkii if possible.

MkII refers to the '02 and newer versions of the 996 platform that had the 3.6L displacement motor vs the MkI referencing the 99-01 models that were built with the 3.4L motors.

The MKII was also referred to as the "facelift" version of the 996 platform that also included some changes to bumpers and interior features, like audio and OBC features.

Good luck with your search. There are lots of deals out there right now for sure!! Demosan :cheers:

[jzwu]

Thanks Demosan.

Sounds like the MK2 is the way to go! :thumbup:

[valley996]

I'll sell you my 1999 996 C2, white, Tiptronic

Hello,

I am new here and I just joined this forum. I have a BMW 3-series for a few years now and I am looking to get a 1999-2002 Porsche 911 (996). Folks on the BMW forum (E46fanatics) referred me to this forum. I have been reading here for a few days and found it very informational and helpful - the first few pinned threads.

Now based on my very limited reading so far, it seems that the 996 is a good deal but with a few caveats as I summarized below. Here you gurus please chime in with your experience, knowledge and opinions. Nothing beats real world ownership experience. I need your help to solidify my decision to get a Porsche. It is my childhood dream and I hope to fulfill it at least once in my lifetime. I love driving and it is one of very few things I really enjoy a lot. Sorry for the long post.

911 (996) 1999-2004 engine issues:

- Intermix problem: requires engine replacement

- Intermediate shaft bearing failure: requires engine replacement/rebuild but may be fixed with aftermarket kits (LN engineering) as a preventive measure

- Engine rear main seal leak: fix requires dropping the engine but can be done at the same time with clutch work

I also realized that Porsche repairs are expensive mostly due to the tight space requiring dropping the engine/ transmission for most major work.

Thanks for your advice and help!

Jzwu

Edited February 9, 2011 by valley996

[jzwu]

What's a fair price for 2002-03 996 in the SF bay area? I have checked local listings and found prices range from mid $20k to over $30k.

I know it all depends on the model and condition but there isn't a clear difference among C2 coupe, targa or cab, or even C4. Assuming the condition is good/avg., what price should I aim at? There seems to be quite some 996's for sale in CA.

[roadsession]

What's a fair price for 2002-03 996 in the SF bay area? I have checked local listings and found prices range from mid $20k to over $30k.

I know it all depends on the model and condition but there isn't a clear difference among C2 coupe, targa or cab, or even C4. Assuming the condition is good/avg., what price should I aim at? There seems to be quite some 996's for sale in CA.

i think if you find something in the mid 30's you'll likely find it to be cleaner and require less work.

good luck.

I LOVE my car.

[jzwu]

At mid $30k the 2007 Cayman is probably a better buy. It is 5 years newer, usually with 20-40k miles and still under warranty.

Do you think so?

[Alfieboy]

There is that temptation with either the Cayman or the Boxster, as their residual doesn't hold up as well. Then again, there's that temptation from those of us in a 911 to always wave bye bye to the Cayman and Boxster folks, unless it's a Cayman S, as we drop it down to third and get a good look at the Cayman's fine styling in the rear view mirror.

[txhokie4life]

Hello,

I am new here and I just joined this forum. I have a BMW 3-series for a few years now and I am looking to get a 1999-2002 Porsche 911 (996). Folks on the BMW forum (E46fanatics) referred me to this forum. I have been reading here for a few days and found it very informational and helpful - the first few pinned threads.

Now based on my very limited reading so far, it seems that the 996 is a good deal but with a few caveats as I summarized below. Here you gurus please chime in with your experience, knowledge and opinions. Nothing beats real world ownership experience. I need your help to solidify my decision to get a Porsche. It is my childhood dream and I hope to fulfill it at least once in my lifetime. I love driving and it is one of very few things I really enjoy a lot. Sorry for the long post.

911 (996) 1999-2004 engine issues:

- Intermix problem: requires engine replacement

- Intermediate shaft bearing failure: requires engine replacement/rebuild but may be fixed with aftermarket kits (LN engineering) as a preventive measure

- Engine rear main seal leak: fix requires dropping the engine but can be done at the same time with clutch work

I also realized that Porsche repairs are expensive mostly due to the tight space requiring dropping the engine/ transmission for most major work.

Thanks for your advice and help!

Jzwu

I would avoid the 99's they have the additional problem of some of the cars having porous castings of the block by a third party supplier.

My research shows this to be limited to the 99 models for the 996. Sadly there is no way to determine this ahead of time.

RMS is an annoyance -- not a go no go.

Any of these I would budget $1500-2000 for an IMSR.

Cracked cylinder heads happen -- not sure if there is a range of years or not -- and no known (to me) preventative maintenance.

AOS -- These can go bad -- worst case you hydrolock the engine. Normally you mosquito fog the neighborhood. I'm not sure if there

is a way to detect that they are going -- or what early symptoms are. Relatively cheap part ~$100 -- not sure of labor time.

Water Pump -- change it every 30k miles -- treat it as preventive maintenance. They go can go bad, and if you don't catch it == you

can overheat and either blow a head gasket -- or more likely, and problematic, blow an internal freeze plug causing intermix.

Chains and chain tensioners break. No real preventative maintenance here. Although a good oil change regimen should help.

The 3.4s can go out of ovality -- lending to lower compression and possible cylinder head cracking --- of all the M96 engines,

they have the thinnest cylinder liners.

If it were me -- I would look at the 3.6 engines. 2002-2005. And do the IMSR, WP, AOS, Oil Change and start from a known good point.

If you plan to track these -- then I would seriously look into some sort of oil sump expansion or back-up (accusump) as

they can suffer from oil starvation which can lead to #6 bearing spinning, scoring the crank and doing other bad things.

These are the heavy hitters I know about. I'm sure there are even more failure modes.

Folks will debate the frequency of these occurrences. At least you can go into the 996 relationship as informed as you can.

Mike

[Dennis C]

I think you have to decide what you are looking for first - do you want a cab or a coupe? Would you consider a targa? Do you want a C2 or a C4, or perhaps a C4S? Manual or tiptronic? Whatever you choose, make sure you buy one that has a well documented service history, and get a good pre-purchase inspection.

My 2002 C4S has been my daily driver for several years, and it is one of the most reliable vehicles I've ever owned. When they do break, it's not cheap to fix, as you pointed out. However, the added expense is worth it to me. I had my rear main seal and my intermediate shaft seal updated at about 74,000 miles, and my car doesn't leak a drop.

Personally, I fell in love with the look of the C4S coupe when I was shopping. This limited my search to 2002 - 2005 vehicles. I bought mine from a private party in San Bernardino, CA and drove it home. I've currently got about 97,000 miles on it, and I drive it rain or shine. Snow too.

Enjoy the process. Shopping for a 911 is an journey that very few people experience.

[jzwu]

Thanks all for the info and good suggestions.

I really enjoy Porsche shopping. So far, I have test driven a 2002 C4 cab and a 2004 C4S cab. Not really impressed with the '02 but the '04 is WOW!

Any big difference between the two? Both have 50-60k miles. The price difference is about $8k, high $20k vs. mid $30k.. Guess got to pay to play.

Edited February 11, 2011 by jzwu

[demosan]

Thanks all for the info and good suggestions.

I really enjoy Porsche shopping. So far, I have test driven a 2002 C4 cab and a 2004 C4S cab. Not really impressed with the '02 but the '04 is WOW!

Any big difference between the two? Both have 50-60k miles. The price difference is about $8k, high $20k vs. mid $30k.. Guess got to pay to play.

You don't mention any options in either the '02 or '04 cars you have test driven. Unless the '04 has the X51 option ( 355HP vs the 320) their isn't really any difference in the power trains. WIth the 04 being a C4S, it has the turbo suspension and brakes which is a nice upgrade ( I have a 02 C4S coupe myself). Good luck with the search!!

Demosan :cheers:

[jzwu]

How is this one I found on cars.com? The mileage is a little high. The free Carfax shows quite a bit of service to fix issues. Does that indicate this is a problem car? Car seems to be in decent condition. I called the selling dealer. It is a custom trade in for a new Toyota. Did the Porsche owner get fed up and traded it in for a Toyota? LOL

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=56733014&listingRecNum=0&criteria=prMx%3D25000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%26mkId%3D20081%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D20567%26rd%3D100%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice-yrId%26zc%3D95124%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dprice%26yrId%3D20142%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national

Edited February 12, 2011 by jzwu

[demosan]

How is this one I found on cars.com? The mileage is a little high. The free Carfax shows quite a bit of service to fix issues. Does that indicate this is a problem car? Car seems to be in decent condition. I called the selling dealer. It is a custom trade in for a new Toyota. Did the Porsche owner get fed up and traded it in for a Toyota? LOL

http://www.cars.com/...05&aff=national

To me the service history looks OK as most of the service events were scheduled maint. and done at a Porsche dealer. On the other hand, the car to me looks its age and then some.... Front seat appears to have a tear/ wear thru the leather. Wheels have wheel rash ( which can be repaired). No sign of a cluth replacement, so that could be necessary on the near term?? I must say I don't know the Northern Ca Porsche market, but I think you can do better in both condition and price for a 2002 Cab with a bit less miles as well. My advice to you is the same others gave me when I was looking for my Pcar, be patient and diligent as there are lots out there and your planful search will lead to a favorable end. You are in the drivers seat ( no pun intended!! ).

My $.02 and again good luck with the search. demosan

[jzwu]

Thanks for the advice. I have the same feeling about the condition. It seems in northern CA such cars are asking premium.

Another '02 cab with 47k miles and Tiptronic in a better condition is asking for $30k by the owner. Guess I have to be patient.

Edited February 12, 2011 by jzwu

[RatboneRanch]

Thanks for the advice. I have the same feeling about the condition. It seems in northern CA such cars are asking premium.

Another '02 cab with 47k miles and Tiptronic in a better condition is asking for $30k by the owner. Guess I have to be patient.

FWIW, my 02 cab with 27000 miles was $30K when I got it in late 2009. It was a gift to me, so I didn't actually pay for it...I actually feel I could have done a bit better if I had shopped it myself. I'm in Ohio, which is a different market, of course.

[02tx996cab]

+1 on the other posters' advice.

Patience on your part will definitely pay off. There are great examples out there; continue to search and build your personal knowledge base about the 996 at the same time. I looked at several 996 Cabs, none of which were in great condition--either very high mileage (lease returns, usually) or not well looked after--before I came across the '02 which I've enjoyed since late 2009. It had less than 34000 miles, a full service history, had been pampered by its former owners, and cost me not quite $29K.

You might also consider looking outside of CA, into the Southern US (Nevada/Vegas, Arizona/Phoenix). There seem to be good examples and prices there, plus minimal snow/ice/salt exposure which is a plus.

Regardless of where you look, invest in a thorough pre-purchase inspection by an independent Porsche specialist mechanic. They're a few hundred bucks but worth every penny IMHO. Many local Porsche Owners Clubs will be happy to direct you to mechanics they trust.

Enjoy the hunt and, once you get your car, the drive. Good luck.

[jzwu]

Just test drove this one today. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/2212517995.html

It is a 2002 targa, 6-speed, leatherette, no heated seats, with PSM and the 3-piece 18-inch Porsche wheels. Owner did the clutch recently and it felt good. Owner also claims the IMS and RMS were done during the clutch job, but i didn't see the receipts yet. Car got a little over 50k miles, 3 owners. Rear tires have about a few thousand miles left. Car has a few scratches and small dings, and normal wear on interior. Seller is willing to let it go for $26,500.

Carfax and Autocheck both are clean. What do you think?

Edited February 14, 2011 by jzwu