Torque convertor seal is leaking

[lewisweller]

My luck just couldn't get any worse. 

I noticed some atf fluid on the warehouse floor and thought it must be the front differential leaking since I just changed the fluid but no. 

The bell housing has two holes in it and the atf fluid is dripping out of one of the holes. 

A quick google search confirmed it's the seal and the transmission fluid is leaking out via the failed seal. 

The seal is 40dollars but the work involved is not a small feat in fact it looks a real b * tch to do. Especially without a lift. Has anyone DIY'd this repair?

I'm total skint for car funds and this couldn't come at a worse time. Ahhhhhh

Edited April 9, 2017 by lewisweller

[Brainz006]

That completely sucks - - sorry to hear. Mine went a few years back. I'm all for turning a wrench, but removing the trans is a big boy job requiring a lift and a buddy to help with removal. I paid the transmission shop about $1300 and called it a day. Frustratingly, the repair shop pinched the oring on the trans filter and underfilled it, leading to additional work to sort out why it was shifting oddly. Eventually it got sorted.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[lewisweller]

4 hours ago, Brainz006 said:

That completely sucks - - sorry to hear. Mine went a few years back. I'm all for turning a wrench, but removing the trans is a big boy job requiring a lift and a buddy to help with removal. I paid the transmission shop about $1300 and called it a day. Frustratingly, the repair shop pinched the oring on the trans filter and underfilled it, leading to additional work to sort out why it was shifting oddly. Eventually it got sorted.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

Yeah I'm totally gutted. 

I'm going to sell the car with full disclosure to new owner that they need to fix this and the injectors need cleaning. 

 

 

[ekstroemtj]

@lewis... are you serious thinking to sell?

[dpatel710]

Sorry to hear that. Especially after you went through so much with yours!

[lewisweller]

Well after some time to have a clear head and the realistic fact that finding someone to buy this potential (actually sitting) lemon would be almost impossible, I'm left with the only way forward being to scrape up the cash and have it fixed. 

I'm researching the diy but it seems too much without a lift and transmission jack. 

 

So when I can get around to doing this torque convertor seal repair is there anything else that would be a no brainer to get done whilst transmission is out maybe saving me from future hair pulling and tears? 

1. Engine crankshaft end seal (flywheel off and check, new bolts) 

2. Trans Filter and atf fluid is a obvious one even though it's just 15,000km since last time. 

3. Flex disc. 

 

Anything else ... on the cheap side of sensible?

 

[wizard]

Coolant pipes ..... if they're still the plastic ones. 

 

Hope that this finally gives you trouble-free driving after all the effort that you've put in.

 

 

[ekstroemtj]

@lewis,did you check your cardan and the flex?

as you remember i had this strange vibration / hesitation which felt like coming from the engine.  You know that i changed a lot without solving this. In the end i found this flex disc distroyed and the car runs much better now. Same time i replaced the EVAP purge valve. Dont know which impact this one had.  

[lewisweller]

Well it seems fate has forced me to act regardless. Yesterday a young chap kindly reversed into my stationary audi and gave me a another couple of weeks of insurance process and body repair and no spare car. 

The young Yemen lad got in trouble because his licence was expired oops. He called me after and said sorry. Bless my wife said. .....lol

 

So I got no choice but to get the PIG fixed asap. 

 

Lucky my good friend has an uncle with a garage here and I'm calling some favours to use the lift and some help to fix the leaking seal. 

Wish me luck. 

[ekstroemtj]

My friend this is not nice to hear. From your message i understand the young guy dont have insurance and you have to pay?! Bad bad .

[lewisweller]

2 hours ago, ekstroemtj said:

My friend this is not nice to hear. From your message i understand the young guy dont have insurance and you have to pay?! Bad bad .

His insurance is valid and will pay for all repairs. But no courtesy car which sucks. 

[ekstroemtj]

Thanks god

[Zakowsky]

Good to hear. Maybe fix the seal leak anyway...but before I speak too soon, I should check what those new drip spots are in my garage....

[lewisweller]

The engine with transmission is out and split. Here is the seal with a very obvious chunk out of it, hence the rather large leak. 

They say there is a difference in the seal type dependant on the shaft, I have to say I don't know what to compare it to, so will take the old one to Porsche tomorrow and get the right one. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by lewisweller

[Mr. Haney]

The seal rides on the t/c hub and has nothing to do with the input shafts. All the 955 v8's use the same size t/c and front pump. So....both the id and od of the seal will be the same across all of the 955 v8's. Interesting that there is a chunk missing. That is probably from the shop prying it out. The correct way to remove is to screw something in the metal ring between the seal lip and the od and then pull. A slide hammer works best. When the pipes let go and the coolant gets past the outer seal lip then. the glycol dries and crystalizes. Then it just sits in there and grinds away at the seal.  Glad to see your fixing the Cayenne. You may just fall in love all over again!

[Mr. Haney]

 95532124302 is the correct part for your turbo v8. The v6, v8, and v8 turbo all use the same torque converter with a different stall speed for each.  All three use the same tiptronic transmission with different number of clutch pack plates and frictions based on model with the turbo having the most. The v6 tipronic uses a bushed front pump where the the converter slides in while the s and turbo use a needle bearing. 

[lewisweller]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Haney said:

 95532124302 is the correct part for your turbo v8. The v6, v8, and v8 turbo all use the same torque converter with a different stall speed for each.  All three use the same tiptronic transmission with different number of clutch pack plates and frictions based on model with the turbo having the most. The v6 tipronic uses a bushed front pump where the the converter slides in while the s and turbo use a needle bearing. 

Thanks for replying, It seems from your detailed information there should be no discrepancy over the seal, so I'm wondering why Porsche have two types they say could be fitted? Could it be one of those factory line moments where mid production they switch the seal on the fly (for what ever reason supplier change, defective seal design revised or associated component changes) and its anybodies guess which one is fitted. 

Will find out later hopefully and compare both they say they have. 

 

Chunk missing, makes more sense they damaged it prying out yes. 

I'm going to remove the injectors when I go to get the seal today and send them to the other garage for ultrasonic cleaning. 

The new owner is not going to know the 14month battle and cost it's taken to get this car back to decent shape mechanically. 

 

Oh and I still can't fix this pesky check tail light warning. I looked at the third break light and the grounds under that rear hatch spoiler. Nothing found, Cleaned earth's and check plugs were all clicked tight. Where else can be the problem other than the rear comfort control unit? It's really annoying. When the lights are on, Press the break pedal and boom "check tail lights" pops up. It's voltage related I'm sure, when everything is off loads wise, and I've been on a drive (battery is fully topped up) it won't do it. Drop to idle and switch on a few things it will pop everytime. I can even make it do it between fan speed 3 or 4 make the difference to pop the warning or not pop. 

 

[Mr. Haney]

I feel your pain. Diagnostics are really tough.

[lewisweller]

So it turns out Porsche are correct (why doubt them I hear some say) of the the two types one is a usual looking NBR seal and one has a brass band integrated around the seal which sits on the transmission case input shaft aperture I think I'm right in saying. Ending part number 302 "needle bearing version" was in fact the other type Mr. Haney, the one that fits my car is as attached and ends in 300 and is the "bush version"

The garage confirmed the damage to the seal wasnt due to them prying it out! So something happened in there to rip a chunk out and mess up the seal proper style. 

[Mr. Haney]

I just bought one for my cayenne, im gonna go look at what they sent. Im gonna look at my trans and tc to see what style I have on my 04 turbo. Maybe I got the wrong one! Apologies for the misinformation!

[Mr. Haney]

Well, My 04 turbo was manufactured in 3/04. I do have the needle bearing front pump. I picked up my Cayenne 1 owner with 65k. As far as I know from the service history and working on it the trans has never been replaced. It was always serviced where it was purchased by the original owner. I include a couple of pics here of the new seal sent to me ending in 4302. It has the same id, od, and direction of rotation as the original one I took out. For all purposes it is the same seal with the adittion of a full rubber casing compared to the originals brassy colored outer metal shell. Though, on the new one ending in 4302 you can see the brassy colored casing through the holes in the rubber. Maybe 4302 is just vthe latest revision to the part ending in 4300. But I do see the mention of a bushing and needle bearing versiion in the parts listing. 

 

Did you say you have the bushed style front pump Lewis? I think my original is what you are descri ing you have. 

[lewisweller]

3 hours ago, Mr. Haney said:

Well, My 04 turbo was manufactured in 3/04. I do have the needle bearing front pump. I picked up my Cayenne 1 owner with 65k. As far as I know from the service history and working on it the trans has never been replaced. It was always serviced where it was purchased by the original owner. I include a couple of pics here of the new seal sent to me ending in 4302. It has the same id, od, and direction of rotation as the original one I took out. For all purposes it is the same seal with the adittion of a full rubber casing compared to the originals brassy colored outer metal shell. Though, on the new one ending in 4302 you can see the brassy colored casing through the holes in the rubber. Maybe 4302 is just vthe latest revision to the part ending in 4300. But I do see the mention of a bushing and needle bearing versiion in the parts listing. 

 

Did you say you have the bushed style front pump Lewis? I think my original is what you are descri ing you have. 

Yep brass outer seal ring is for BUSH version like I have and you have. Ending 300.

 

The other needle shaft version type seal ending 302 is NOT a revision old or new I did ask the Porsche part guy to clarify, they are simply different parts for different types fitted component. I reckon the 302 was fitted in the later module production line when they realised the 300 was going to leak in the future maybe?

Some more pictures attached, this is the 302 seal and also some rather depressing images of my cars guts laying on the floor again. 

 

Edited May 18, 2017 by lewisweller

[bigbuzuki]

 Would be a good time to change out the plastic coolant tees to metal ones since you have access with the engine out.

[dpatel710]

Woah!

Motor mounts would be good to do with the motor out. Anyone know if its possible to do with the motor in and using an engine bar like for the non turbo V8? Mine need to be replaced but if its a motor out deal, I'll wait until I have to. 

[ekstroemtj]

@ Lewis

 

 

how long it took for your guys to take out the engine?