Found fine black powder in oil filter medium

[jchapura]

Changed my oil today. 2005 C2S with about 80000 miles. Been using DT40 for a few years. About 3300 miles (1.5 years; car was laid up about a year) on this oil change. Opened the oil filter case to inspect the oil filter medium. Saw a lot of fine black (oil soaked, of course) powder in the creases of the filter medium.  Non-ferrous (wouldn't stick to magnet, other than due to oil acting as "adhesive"). More than I've seen in the past. I've attached two pics here.

What do you think? Source? Cause for alarm? Needs immediate diagnosis/correction?

[jchapura]

I used a wash bottle with lacquer thinner and washed about 1/2 the medium's debris into a clean glass container. Decanted it once. Washed it again. Decanted it. Let the solvent evaporate a little bit and scooped a couple of screwdriver tip's worth onto a clean paper towel. It was still a little wet as you can see by the staining on the paper towel. Picture is attached. The clumps are easily pulverized. The color is brown-reddish-brown.

PS: I think I'll get the Durametric out and measure the cam (angle) deviations...

[JFP in PA]

Most likely chain ramp wear.

[jchapura]

If it is, is it more troubling if it seemingly cropped up over the span of a single oil change interval? Am I on a "deadline" now?

Are the chain ramp replacements considered a DIY job without removing the engine? Special tools needed? Other considerations?

 

[JFP in PA]

22 minutes ago, jchapura said:

If it is, is it more troubling if it seemingly cropped up over the span of a single oil change interval? Am I on a "deadline" now?

Are the chain ramp replacements considered a DIY job without removing the engine? Special tools needed? Other considerations?

 

 

Start by checking your cam deviation values, that will tell you how bad they are (the value limits are +/- 6 degrees).  The ramps can be DIY, but they will require special tooling and an understanding of how the cam timing system works.  It is also much easier an quicker with the engine out, but can be done with it in.

[jchapura]

Thanks John.

After warm-up:
Camshaft deviation, bank 1 -0.9844
Camshaft deviation, bank 2 -0.4219
Rock steady, no jumping around at idle nor 2700 RPM.

 

What do you think?

[JFP in PA]

Deviation values look very good, so it is not a critical issue at this juncture.

[jchapura]

I had my oil tested and nothing remarkable seen there. Coincidentally, a fellow Rennlister had an issue similar to mine but on a BMW. The current working theory is that it was carbon that had been broken loose because of the fuel system cleaners we'd both used prior to the oil change.

 

Found fine black powder in oil filter medium - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

RENNLIST.COM

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997 Forum - Found fine black powder in oil filter medium - Changed my oil today. 2005 C2S with about 80000 miles. Been using DT40 for a few years. About 3300 miles (1.5 years; car was laid up about a year) on this oil change. Opened the oil filter case to inspect the oil filter medium. Saw a lot of fine...

 

[JFP in PA]

2 hours ago, jchapura said:

I had my oil tested and nothing remarkable seen there. Coincidentally, a fellow Rennlister had an issue similar to mine but on a BMW. The current working theory is that it was carbon that had been broken loose because of the fuel system cleaners we'd both used prior to the oil change.

 

Found fine black powder in oil filter medium - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

RENNLIST.COM

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997 Forum - Found fine black powder in oil filter medium - Changed my oil today. 2005 C2S with about 80000 miles. Been using DT40 for a few years. About 3300 miles (1.5 years; car was laid up about a year) on this oil change. Opened the oil filter case to inspect the oil filter medium. Saw a lot of fine...

 

 

If that is carbon build up, it is the worst case I’ve ever seen.  We have used Techron for years in all types of engines and have never seen anything even close to that...........

[jchapura]

Do you think a lab could distinguish between the chain guide ramp material and Techroned-off "carbon deposit" material?

 

If it were Techroned-off carbon deposits, would you be more concerned with allowing the carbon to build by not Techron-ing versus getting the slug of carbon every oil change?

 

FWIW, I use a Top Tier gasoline at least 80% of the time...

 

[JFP in PA]

1 hour ago, jchapura said:

Do you think a lab could distinguish between the chain guide ramp material and Techroned-off "carbon deposit" material?

 

If it were Techroned-off carbon deposits, would you be more concerned with allowing the carbon to build by not Techron-ing versus getting the slug of carbon every oil change?

 

FWIW, I use a Top Tier gasoline at least 80% of the time...

 

 

I remain unconvinced that the debris in the filter is the result of running Techron.  We have seen the oil turn dark on poorly maintained cars when Techron was used, but have never seen solid particles in the filter.

 

As for the lab results, I have never used that lab, so I have no idea about them finding it or not.

[timbo]

to me that looks like the kind of sludge you sometimes find in the top of an engine, often caused by short journeys, its definately nor black!

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by timbo

[jchapura]

8 hours ago, timbo said:

 ...sludge...

 

What do you think the sludge is composed of?

 

[timbo]

when cars do a lot of short journeys or never get to warm up completely, condensation mixes with the oil and forms an emulsion, this then gets cooked when the car does a longer journey and gets really warm. Only an opinion but used to see this a lot inside rocker covers and pollution control systems.