Bad experience with Porsche "certification"

[wdlong1]

Well this is my first post - I am a new Porsche owner.

I just bought a 99 C2 coupe with 22000 miles. Love the car. It was "certified" by Porsche dealer before I purchased. They assured me that it had been thoroughly serviced as per their routine certification process and infact the car was in "excellent" condition. -- That was 2 weeks ago.

On the way home 2 days ago I noted that the temp light was flashing. I searched Renntech and figured that the coolant expansion tank or cap was bad -- no big deal, I now know this is a known problem. Took it to Porsche dealership to have it fixed as I had gotten a 2 year warranty. While inspecting the car they found that not only was the tank cracked ... but also there was a lot of oil in the lower pan and there was a crack in the oil "expansion" tank and that the coolant motor was bad.

OK, I was thinking the coolant tank was bad enough but I must say jesus christ -- what do they check in the certification process it they do not check these things.

I mean it seems like "certification" means a nice wax job and carpet cleaning!

I just was wondering if anyone else had this kind of experience and do you think I should report it to Porsche main office?

(luckily all except the coolant tank was covered by warranty.)

David Long

[Loren]

Here is the dealer CPO checklist (sorry the quality is not too good).

CPO_Checklist.pdf

[LVDell]

That coolant tank should not be your resposibility even though it is NOT covered under the 2 yr CPO warranty. I would express your disgust with them (in a polite way) and I am sure they will cover it.

[wdlong1]

Thanks for that.

I have to admit I am shocked that they do not pressure test the coolant expansion tank since this is such a known problem.

Anyway -- lets put it this way - this is the first time I have bought a used car and I have learned much from the experience. Hopefully it will not cost me much to learn anymore!

[geza]

You should also write a letter to Porsche North America - it may be a benefit to you should the need arise for other dealer opportunity visits.

[a9jlu]

i had my 2004 C4S also certified, they told me they are checked everything, 3 weeks later i started hearing a thump and when i had it checked out, it was a loose control arm.

i think the problem is sales people try to sell you stuff, you can't quote the salesperson if something goes wrong.. he probably says what you want to hear just to sell it to you...

[TRIATHLETE]

Thanks for that.

Anyway -- lets put it this way - this is the first time I have bought a used car and I have learned much from the experience.  Hopefully it will not cost me much to learn anymore!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I Hope you are sitting down when you read this. I bought my first P-car last year, a certified 99 C2 with 23K miles on it and had the same experience. The salesman showed me a copy of the CPO checklist all rubber stamped but never put a copy with my contract. Coincidence? Read on...

The fuel door lock was missing when I picked up the car - pretty embarassing for the salesman as he was delivering the car. A fender washer was also missing causing the edge of the body panel to stick out by the time I pulled into my driveway. Dealer fixed both under warranty.

The cruise control didn't work the FIRST time I tried it. Dealer fixed after leaving the car for more than a week. A month later I discoverd the reverse switch was inoperable (no back-up lights). Took the car back and they had it fixed in ten minutes.

A/C ran out of freon in Orlando last October. One week at the dealer and no leak found - dealer topped off freon. This spring A/C ran out of freon - same as above. May no A/C - parked the car for two weeks waiting for an appointment. Dealer had car for eight days - replaced Evaporator core - under warranty.

Found LOTs oil on the bottom of the engine and at least three coil packs were full of oil when replacing the spark plugs. Saw the TSB on leaking O-rings on the oil protection pipes, so I brought the car back to address leaking o-rings. They said no problem and promptly pulled the tranny away from the motor, informed me I needed a new clutch lining and replaced the RMS and crankcase bolts - a different TSB. I specifically asked about the o-rings - no problem - I was told all leaks were fixed.

Two weeks later the car starts skipping and I get a flashing CEL (check engine light). Called the dealer immediately and limped it to them that Saturday.

Guess what? A coil pack shorted out because it was full of oil. They never addressed the original complaint! This occurred even though I brought digital color pictures of the spark plugs covered in oil when I brought the car in the first time. Another week without the car and new oil pipes and o-rings installed. Under warranty.

A week later - CEL light on again. Back to the dealer - new MAF installed at no charge.

Did I mention the passenger power motor went bad? Another week in the shop - under warranty.

Finally, two weeks ago the coolant tank took a dump so I replaced it myself because it wasn't covered and the dealer wanted $650. I did it in two hours with the info on RennTech. Unfortunately, now I have a fuel leak!

The car was towed to the dealer Monday and I was told they won't get to it until next Tuesday.

Six months left on the warranty and at least $7-8K in covered warranty repairs to date. CPO is the only way to go.

I've only got 43K miles on the car. It has depreciated $15K since I bought it. My wife is busting my balls to get rid of it and get a BMW. Never had these kinds of problems with either of my 325s.

Don't get me wrong - I absolutely love the **** car - when its working. The dealer has been great but six weeks without the car in the first year and a half of ownership sucks.

Is my experience unique or do all P-cars need this much care and feeding? I drive my car every day. Could that be the problem? Should I start shopping for a beater and resign myself to the fact that P-cars are really meant to be garage queens? No flames please...

Thanks for the CPO list Loren

[LVDell]

It appears that your car was NOT taken care of in it's prior life. Your experience is relatively few and far between. I feel for you, but in this case you just happen to get either a bad apple or one not taken care of. You can nurse it back to health though :)

[TRIATHLETE]

It appears that your car was NOT taken care of in it's prior life.  Your experience is relatively few and far between.  I feel for you, but in this case you just happen to get either a bad apple or one not taken care of.  You can nurse it back to health though :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On the contrary! The car had been serviced religiously before I bought it! I have the records of the EIGHTEEN trips to the dealer during its first six years of previous ownership. I can only surmise that the car WAS a garage queen because of the low mileage - <4K per year.

Perhaps that's the root cause of all these issues...

[LVDell]

Ahhhh, therein probably lies the problem. These cars have to be driven. The problems that are usually seen relating to oil issues are those that are GQ's.

But remember, just becasue the car was serviced "religously" means nothing in the way of how it was taken care of.

[geza]

The bottom line is that regardless of the computer power the dealer has at their disposal, the technician's diligence and ability to correctly diagnose problems/situations is critical in getting these issues recognized and resolved BEFORE it is certified.

Unfortunately, Triathlete has borne the brunt of this diagnostically challenged (or plain lazy) service outfit.

As for driving the car too much, or not enough, only the curators of the Porsche museum would have a definitive answer on that.

[Kim]

Is my experience unique or do all P-cars need this much care and feeding?  I drive my car every day.  Could that be the problem?  Should I start shopping for a beater and resign myself to the fact that P-cars are really meant to be garage queens?  No flames please...   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can't say just how unique your experince is .... but it is certainly not universal.

I found my car (in Texas) on the web, and went from Atlanta to see it at a non-Porsche used car dealer. 2000 996 Cab with 35K miles, just off warranty. Spoke with the Porsche dealer who had just done a PPI for another potential buyer. Bought the car and drove it home in December, 04.

In the 10 months since, I have put on 13K (daily driver) and had no serious mechanical problems. It has not been to a dealer or in the shop, other than for the 30K maint. right after purchase. I discovered and fixed a clogged water drain from the convertible tray, and, more recently, had to remove and adjust the front lid latch. (help for both jobs on RennTech .... thanks, Loren).

That's the sum total of repairs needed on my used car (not certified by a dealer) through almost a year and 13,000 miles. It compares well with previously owned BMWs and Volvos .... but pales in comparison to the reliability of my wife's Toyota. Of course, its a lot more fun than the Landcruiser.

Kim

2000 Cab

[Hroussard]

I bought a C2 99 out of warranty 2 years ago. Tried to get an aftermarket warranty from the Porsche dealer which was denied!!! So I did not pursue anything else.

Spent 1500 bucks on a new water pump which blew out after 32K miles. Did the 30K service, have replaced the rear tires once ( now due to a replacement again). Have currently 44K miles on it , drive it daily. No problems ..so far...

I have a heavy foot both on trottle and brake. I double clutch on any downshift. Have done a few Autocross events but no tracking but the car seems to be holding up well.

Cheers

HarryR

[quicksilver77]

I too picked up a used p-car, (MY01 996 cpe) with 13,000 miles on it, still under factory warranty for a year. It appeared to be a GQ, as I purchased it 12/04. I bought it third party, after insisting on taking it to two inde. p-car shops for inspection. It got a clean bill of health, from both, and I took the plunge. I have had the car for about a year now, and I am absolutely in love. No maintenance issues whatsoever! Oil changes/Tyres/Wiperblades, that is all. The car is a daily driver, and my track car wrapped into one. (8 track weekends this year, so far)

Unfortunately, it seems as though, you got stuck with an anomily. Porsche's are meant to be driven, and "there is no substitute!" :notworthy:

[TRIATHLETE]

I too picked up a used p-car, (MY01 996 cpe) with 13,000 miles on it, still under factory warranty for a year.  It appeared to be a GQ, as I purchased it 12/04.  I bought it third party, after insisting on taking it to two inde. p-car shops for inspection.  It got a clean bill of health, from both, and I took the plunge.  I have had the car for about a year now, and I am absolutely in love.  No maintenance issues whatsoever!  Oil changes/Tyres/Wiperblades, that is all.  The car is a daily driver, and my track car wrapped into one.  (8 track weekends this year, so far)

Unfortunately, it seems as though, you got stuck with an anomily.  Porsche's are meant to be driven, and "there is no substitute!" :notworthy:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I finally got my car back after two weeks. See my other post. I talked with the salesman about the "lemon". He advises I trade it in on a 2001 or newer car. My car was very early production May 98? and seems to have had every known issue to date. $15K depreciation and I need to spend more money to have a better Porsche experience?

Sheesh...I'm depressed...That 2006 BMW 3 series with a six speed looks pretty nice right about now.

[LVDell]

BMW form Porsche???? What in the world are you comparing?

[TRIATHLETE]

BMW form Porsche????  What in the world are you comparing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like a car that is in my garage more than the Dealer's. Its hard to get excited about a car that breaks every two months and requires a week or two for an appointment only to sit for another week before it gets repaired (if they get it right the first time).

I never expected the reliability of a Honda when I bought the C2, but this is ridiculous. It's very hard for me to get excited about the Porsche experience at the moment. Over and out until I cool off...