Boxer Engine issue

[fiveseven]

Hi everybody

I had a misfortunate experience with my model 2003 986 boxster s yesterday. The car has manual transmission has driven 82.000 km or approx 51000 miles. It is the first time it hasn’t driven me all the way home. I had to stop on the highway when the motor suddenly did chopping sounds.

I could see that the motor/engine oil had run out and my initial thought was to refill oil so that I could move on. Unfortunately that didn’t help. The motor could turn on but the display showed a yellow warning like ”Check engine – go to workshop”. I had the engine running a few mins and drove very carefully a few meters’ but it was still doing the chopping sounds and I turned off the engine. The exhaust had a smell of something burning.

October this year (last month actually), I did a major service at Porsche and they found a few things that needed to be fixed.

- Change of gaiters at the drive shaft (not a car expert but it sound to be around the engine)

- Fix rattle sound from exhaust. Fixed with screws and a welding

- Oil leakage (had a leakage like this done at last year’s service)

I got the first two fixed shortly after the service but the leakage wasn’t fixed. They told me they had washed the spot where they thought there was a leakage but couldn’t se anything to fixed. They asked me to come back after 2 weeks and some driven miles, so they could check again. When I came back I was told there still wasn’t anything and that they didn’t have to do anything about it. Yesterday as already mentioned the engine oil had suddenly run out? Isn’t that strange?

I can’t do anything about it until Monday, since everything is closed until then where I live.

I am afraid the engine is messed up, any of you guys with more car/Porsche knowledge can give me a hint as to what can be wrong?

[1schoir]

Hi everybody

I had a misfortunate experience with my model 2003 986 boxster s yesterday. The car has manual transmission has driven 82.000 km or approx 51000 miles. It is the first time it hasn’t driven me all the way home. I had to stop on the highway when the motor suddenly did chopping sounds.

I could see that the motor/engine oil had run out and my initial thought was to refill oil so that I could move on. Unfortunately that didn’t help. The motor could turn on but the display showed a yellow warning like ”Check engine – go to workshop”. I had the engine running a few mins and drove very carefully a few meters’ but it was still doing the chopping sounds and I turned off the engine. The exhaust had a smell of something burning.

October this year (last month actually), I did a major service at Porsche and they found a few things that needed to be fixed.

- Change of gaiters at the drive shaft (not a car expert but it sound to be around the engine)

- Fix rattle sound from exhaust. Fixed with screws and a welding

- Oil leakage (had a leakage like this done at last year’s service)

I got the first two fixed shortly after the service but the leakage wasn’t fixed. They told me they had washed the spot where they thought there was a leakage but couldn’t se anything to fixed. They asked me to come back after 2 weeks and some driven miles, so they could check again. When I came back I was told there still wasn’t anything and that they didn’t have to do anything about it. Yesterday as already mentioned the engine oil had suddenly run out? Isn’t that strange?

I can’t do anything about it until Monday, since everything is closed until then where I live.

I am afraid the engine is messed up, any of you guys with more car/Porsche knowledge can give me a hint as to what can be wrong?

Unfortunately, from the symptoms you describe (the sounds it was making, the fact that there was a slight oil leak, smell of something burning), it sounds like a possible engine failure, with the culprit possibly being the IMS (Intermediate Shaft Bearing) failing.

This is just a WAG, as maybe it's something totally harmless but, given the history of these M96 engines, it's a distinct possibility.

Do a search here for IMS or go to the LNEngineering.com website and do some reading. I think also that Flat6innovations.com may also have a sound file and/or other information on the symptoms, etc...

Hope it turns out to be nothing serious. Let us know what the outcome is.

Regards, Maurice.

[infocusf8]

Hi everybody

I had a misfortunate experience with my model 2003 986 boxster s yesterday. The car has manual transmission has driven 82.000 km or approx 51000 miles. It is the first time it hasn’t driven me all the way home. I had to stop on the highway when the motor suddenly did chopping sounds.

I could see that the motor/engine oil had run out and my initial thought was to refill oil so that I could move on. Unfortunately that didn’t help. The motor could turn on but the display showed a yellow warning like ”Check engine – go to workshop”. I had the engine running a few mins and drove very carefully a few meters’ but it was still doing the chopping sounds and I turned off the engine. The exhaust had a smell of something burning.

October this year (last month actually), I did a major service at Porsche and they found a few things that needed to be fixed.

- Change of gaiters at the drive shaft (not a car expert but it sound to be around the engine)

- Fix rattle sound from exhaust. Fixed with screws and a welding

- Oil leakage (had a leakage like this done at last year’s service)

I got the first two fixed shortly after the service but the leakage wasn’t fixed. They told me they had washed the spot where they thought there was a leakage but couldn’t se anything to fixed. They asked me to come back after 2 weeks and some driven miles, so they could check again. When I came back I was told there still wasn’t anything and that they didn’t have to do anything about it. Yesterday as already mentioned the engine oil had suddenly run out? Isn’t that strange?

I can’t do anything about it until Monday, since everything is closed until then where I live.

I am afraid the engine is messed up, any of you guys with more car/Porsche knowledge can give me a hint as to what can be wrong?

Unfortunately, from the symptoms you describe (the sounds it was making, the fact that there was a slight oil leak, smell of something burning), it sounds like a possible engine failure, with the culprit possibly being the IMS (Intermediate Shaft Bearing) failing.

This is just a WAG, as maybe it's something totally harmless but, given the history of these M96 engines, it's a distinct possibility.

Do a search here for IMS or go to the LNEngineering.com website and do some reading. I think also that Flat6innovations.com may also have a sound file and/or other information on the symptoms, etc...

Hope it turns out to be nothing serious. Let us know what the outcome is.

Regards, Maurice.

When you say the engine oil had run out did you check it by the dip stick or use the readout on the dash? That M96 motor holds 9 qts. of oil which is a lot of oil to leak out. It seems to me you would have seen a big spot under the car or your oil warning light would have come on not to mention black smoke burning off the hot exhaust while you were driving. The only thing I can think of is you had a major RMS failure. The slight oil leak that the dealer saw is usually the first indication that the RMS is failing. If all the oil leaked out and the CEL was flashing and you continued to run the motor it could be anything and everything that was destroyed.

[Glyn]

Agree with Maurice on this one

[fiveseven]

When you say the engine oil had run out did you check it by the dip stick or use the readout on the dash? That M96 motor holds 9 qts. of oil which is a lot of oil to leak out. It seems to me you would have seen a big spot under the car or your oil warning light would have come on not to mention black smoke burning off the hot exhaust while you were driving. The only thing I can think of is you had a major RMS failure. The slight oil leak that the dealer saw is usually the first indication that the RMS is failing. If all the oil leaked out and the CEL was flashing and you continued to run the motor it could be anything and everything that was destroyed.

Hi infocusf8

The thing was that it was pretty dark and raining quite heavily at the time so I didnt se any black smoke if there were any. The oil light warning wasnt on the display. I was on the highway and when it happened i knew i should stop and I did that. The motor was running and i did try to pres pedal and move slowly ahead but engine was chopping. I checked the engine oil on display (didnt think of the stick since it was dark and raining). When I put oil in I tried to move ahead a little again but same thing, chopping from engine, so i turned off the engine. This was the point where i realised running the engine further could harm it.

I did let it check for motor oil again after refilling 1L and after one hour (cold engine) I could se that the oil was above half on the display.

What is the CEL? The only warning light i saw was the "Check Engine - go to workshop" yellow warning.

EDIT: CEL must be check engine light right?

BTW thanks I appreciate your views

Edited November 15, 2009 by fiveseven

[txhokie4life]

Can you define what you mean by chopping?

Have you checked the dipstick (still have those on '03s right?)

CEL is Check Engine Light

Where is the car now? can you get under and see if you have any signs of an oil leak?

Maybe even a heavy oil leak?

Where are you located?

thanx,

Mike in Austin

[fiveseven]

Can you define what you mean by chopping?

Have you checked the dipstick (still have those on '03s right?)

CEL is Check Engine Light

Where is the car now? can you get under and see if you have any signs of an oil leak?

Maybe even a heavy oil leak?

Where are you located?

thanx,

Mike in Austin

The sound is a little hard to explain but a little like this when i was pedaling the gas

Right now the car is locked up somewhere in Copenhagen, Denmark. I cant get to it right now and i actually have to get it towed to a porsche dealer tomorrow.

Worst thing is the waiting time and not knowing whats wrong with the engine.

[mikefocke]

Have a heart specialist nearby when they give you the news. Or a friendly banker.

Good luck.

[txhokie4life]

Can you define what you mean by chopping?

Have you checked the dipstick (still have those on '03s right?)

CEL is Check Engine Light

Where is the car now? can you get under and see if you have any signs of an oil leak?

Maybe even a heavy oil leak?

Where are you located?

thanx,

Mike in Austin

The sound is a little hard to explain but a little like this when i was pedaling the gas

Right now the car is locked up somewhere in Copenhagen, Denmark. I cant get to it right now and i actually have to get it towed to a porsche dealer tomorrow.

Worst thing is the waiting time and not knowing whats wrong with the engine.

Yikes -- that doesn't sound good.

Hard to tell for sure -- but I would expect broken valves hitting a piston or a broken crankshaft or rod hitting the block.

Sad to say the engine is probably in bad shape.

1) check compression on all cylinders

2) check the timing by looking at the cam shaft position relative to TDC.

3) see if you can turn the crank by hand and see if you feel interfernce

4) if you can turn the crank, see if the relationship between the camshafts remains the same as you go around, two complete revolutions is one

complete camshaft revolution

Should be able to tell a lot by those 4 things without pulling the engine or dumping the oil.

If you still can't find something wrong -- check your oil and oil filter for particles.

Hope you find something benign but I'm afraid that is wishful thinking.

m

Edited November 16, 2009 by txhokie4life

[infocusf8]

I don't know about IMS failure by that sound and the fact that the motor is still running. IMS failure usually relates to a catastrophic engine failure and it won't run at all. Sounds more like it sucked a valve and it's hitting on a piston. If you lost all the oil it could be any number of things perhaps even a rod bearing. The best advice I've heard here so far is to hope for the best but have some money in the bank cause it ain't gonna be cheap.

[Glyn]

You know what - the sound is very like a loose spark plug, but that wouldnt explain the oil, no knocking that i can hear so it may not be the IMS - time i think for it to be looked at and get a diagnosis

Edited November 18, 2009 by Glyn

[fiveseven]

Hi guys

I am getting it towed to a porsche dealer tomorrow (dont ask why i waited so long, its not in my hands).

I do not know what to think but to hope for the best. I am just dissapointed in Porsche who had the car in for a major service and repairing not so long ago.

Edited November 19, 2009 by fiveseven

[phillipj]

Unfortunetly if it is the IMS there are no warning signs

[infocusf8]

Unfortunetly if it is the IMS there are no warning signs

Unfortunately there is it is the sound of a cash register cha-chinging. :eek:

[mikefocke]

Random failures happen randomly

but we always associate them with the guy who touched it last...even when it isn't.

Good luck, we are hoping for the best news from/for you.

[phillipj]

lol! :lol:

[Guest]

Is there anyway to head off the IMS issue?

[txhokie4life]

Is there anyway to head off the IMS issue?

Yes - IMS Retrofit.

See www.lnengineering.com

[gerrygug]

OP, was this issue ever resolved?

[fiveseven]

Its taken a long time ( nearly a month) but the diagnosis that I got yesterday was that the intake valve at cylinder 1 is broken.

Besides that the cam shaft have timing issues with cylinder 1, 2 and 3.

I am no car expert but they tell me they will look deeper into the engine on monday to decide whether it can be fixed or whether to replace the engine.

The thing is that fortunately my car insurance will handle the costs and for my own expenses it should only be around 1000$.

I am in doubt as whether the repair they did a couple of weeks before this happened might have caused this?

I dont know what the difference is between drive shaft and cam shaft.

But they did as written in my first post:

- Change of gaiters at the drive shaft (not a car expert but it sound to be around the engine)

So could this have been caused by the Porsche mechanics when they repaired my car?

[RFM]

Don't think so, drive shaft is the mechanical connection between differential (gear box) and wheel. Cam shaft controls the valves (timing and, depends on construction, lift)

[mikefocke]

"gaiters at the drive shaft" is not a terms used frequently in the US.

Imagining, it could mean a CV joint boot in which case it is the rear axle. And nothing to do with the engine internals. Could be a seal at the end of the crankshaft in which case RMS. Done faulty it could cause a oil leak.

[fiveseven]

I think you are right, it is the cv joint boot. They replaced 4 of them and they are made of plastic.

[fiveseven]

Status of my car is that they are replacing the engine. No news on root cause of the fault unfortunately. Good neews is that the insurance is covering it and in the end of the day it seems like a pretty good deal for me. I have also ordered a clutch replacement since my clutch was so hard I usually think its broken every few times some days pass without driving it. In total I get a new engine and clutch for 2000 $ of which half is the amount i have to pay for the engine because of some speciel conditions in the ensurance policy. Cant be too sorry about that can I?

Do you guys think this will make a significant change for the value of my car? I would personally love to get my used porsche with a new engine and clutch.

[phillipj]

Congrats. You got off easy with only $2k :P

My opinion is definetly the car is worth more with a new engine. If I was in the market for a used Porsche and I found one with a new reman motor I would be willing to pay a premium for that... Just my opinion..

Happy to hear you're getting your car back...

:beer: