Tiptronic Problems after ATF fluid/filter Change

[97-986 0]

Hi - this is my first post so I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I tried search (google) but think my search skills stink or really can find an answer so forgive me if this has been asked!!

 

The Car:

97 Boxster with Tiptronic, 89k miles.  The IMS, RMS, water pump were replaced when i bought the car.  I've owned the car about a year and have no idea when the tranny fluid filter was done.(no tiptronic problems).

 

The Problem:

Today I decided to performed the trans. fluid / filter change. I followed the technical article posted on Pelican and didn't have any problems until it came time to run the car through the gears. 

When it came time to shift (R, 1st, 2nd, etc.) I was expecting the rear axles to turn and they didn't.

So, that didn't bother me too much until it went to put the car in park. When i did i got a very audible clicking sound coming from what i assume was the transmission. It eventually stopped (as if the transmission stopped turning) but now i'm worried something is broken.

 

Some notes:

• The old fluid looked very similar to what you seen in the pelican article (blackish)
• When i drained the transmission i recovered +/- 5 quarts of fluid when i expected roughly 3.5.
  • I replaced all 5 with Pentosin ATF 1
• Not much 'sludge' in the pan or accumulation around the magnets.
• nothing smelled burnt.

 

Could this be a simple shifter linkage problem? (all the gear indicator lights seem to light up properly when i shift/select manual mode)

Does it need MORE ATF ?(I'd like to add more ATF (if it needs it) but am terrified that if i try this procedure again I'll wreck the trans (if it isn't already).)

 

One last question - when the transmission is in park, should i be able to turn the axles?

 

If anyone can help a noob I'd appreciate it.  :thumbup:

 

Thanks!

 

joe

[JFP in PA 683]

Hi - this is my first post so I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction. I tried search (google) but think my search skills stink or really can find an answer so forgive me if this has been asked!!

 

The Car:

97 Boxster with Tiptronic, 89k miles.  The IMS, RMS, water pump were replaced when i bought the car.  I've owned the car about a year and have no idea when the tranny fluid filter was done.(no tiptronic problems).

 

The Problem:

Today I decided to performed the trans. fluid / filter change. I followed the technical article posted on Pelican and didn't have any problems until it came time to run the car through the gears. 

When it came time to shift (R, 1st, 2nd, etc.) I was expecting the rear axles to turn and they didn't.

So, that didn't bother me too much until it went to put the car in park. When i did i got a very audible clicking sound coming from what i assume was the transmission. It eventually stopped (as if the transmission stopped turning) but now i'm worried something is broken.

 

Some notes:

• The old fluid looked very similar to what you seen in the pelican article (blackish)
• When i drained the transmission i recovered +/- 5 quarts of fluid when i expected roughly 3.5.
  • I replaced all 5 with Pentosin ATF 1
• Not much 'sludge' in the pan or accumulation around the magnets.
• nothing smelled burnt.

 

Could this be a simple shifter linkage problem? (all the gear indicator lights seem to light up properly when i shift/select manual mode)

Does it need MORE ATF ?(I'd like to add more ATF (if it needs it) but am terrified that if i try this procedure again I'll wreck the trans (if it isn't already).)

 

One last question - when the transmission is in park, should i be able to turn the axles?

 

If anyone can help a noob I'd appreciate it.  :thumbup:

 

Thanks!

 

joe

 

If you try to put a Tip into park after running it in gear, some internal component's may still be turning if you have not totally stopped the drive line using the brakes.  When this happens, the "pawl", which is the mechanical lock that drops into place in park  to keep the trans from turning starts skipping from tooth to tooth until everything stops turning and it can drop into place.  When this happens, it makes a ratchet like clicking sound.  Completely normal.

 

Normally, when you run the Tip in gear with the car up, only one wheel may turn.  Again, this is nothing unusual.

 

Now a question:  Did you run the car until the trans came up to temperature and then adjust the fluid level?  If not, the trans may not be full, or it may be over filled.  Because these cars do not have dipsticks, you need to follow the warm up procedure to do the fluid level correctly.

[97-986 0]

Thanks for the reply JFP.

To provide a lengthy reply to your question -

After the initial fill (3.5 liters before overflow) I ran the car to temp and checked. At temp I added almost another liter before it overflowed (this is when i didn't notice axles turning, and had the clicking noise). Despite those issues I ran through the gears again and re-checked and added the remaining AFT from the 5 liter bottle (it didn't overflow this time but I was out of ATF). 

I was very surprised that i needed more than 5 liters ATF and also worried that I mucked up the trans. so I measured the quantity of ATF I removed and it more/less filled the 5 quart bottle to the same level.

 

I am going to get another liter of ATF and re-check the level today. 

 

Also, I tried turning the axle by hand and noticed that with the car in park I can freely rotate them in both directions. I thought they would be 'locked' into place when in park.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks again.

Edited November 16, 2014 by 97-986

[JFP in PA 683]

What temperature was the ATF at when you check the level?

[97-986 0]

Roughly 36/37 Celsius.

[JFP in PA 683]

Roughly 36/37 Celsius.

 

That should be hot enough.

[97-986 0]

OK - so, just got it to temp and added a 6th liter of ATF. There was no overflow so I think i need to add more.

Anyway, I ran it through the gears and noticed both axles turning and no noise (clicking) when I put it in park.

 

As i noted in my 1st post, i have had no problems with the tip. in this car, even had it out for a DE.

Is it really possible that i'm a liter or more low?

 

Oh, axles still 'free' to rotate even when in park.

Edited November 16, 2014 by 97-986

[JFP in PA 683]

If the car is level, and it ain't running out of the overflow when at temp, you are still low.

[serbox 0]

It is my assumtion that you check the transmission fluid level with the engine running and the transmission at temperature....Am I right on this?

[serbox 0]

Thanks!!

[JFP in PA 683]

It is my assumtion that you check the transmission fluid level with the engine running and the transmission at temperature....Am I right on this?

 

Yes, but it is a little more complicated as you need to adjust the fluid level when the transmission fluid is in a specific temperature range.  There is a DIY in the 996 section (the procedures are exactly the same for a Boxster) that details how it is done.

[serbox 0]

:notworthy: i found the DIY on the auto transmission fill up. i got in the transmission about 5 1/2 quarts, a few more to go but the weather is no cooperating ( 34F denver...it was colder last night like 15F) thanks

[JFP in PA 683]

We ain't much warmer here, 20F overnight tonight.  Thank God for garage heat..............

[97-986 0]

JFP -  gonna mark this 'solved' for now.

I have a few more things to do on the car before taking off the jack stands.

I had a feeling prior to doing the filter/fluid that the car was a bit low just by the way shifted when i used 1st gear and guess i shouldn't be surprised by the 'extra' ~1.5 liters.

 

I really appreciate the help and comments.

 

serbox, thanks for chiming in, too.

[jjb7 0]

Serbox,

I've got bad news. The tiptronic should only lose 3.5 liters when drained.

I was performing the periodic fluid change for my 996, and had to put in over 5 liters. I did not keep track of how much came out (mistake). The tranny started to shudder and fail to shift into gear. It would shift out, the RPMs go up, then it would slam into gear. I performed the fill procedure 3 more times. during a test run, the tranny went into limp mode and threw a code, Solenoind 2 failure. I thought great. I would just fix it, and went to drop the valve body. Inside the oil pan I found gear teeth. Time for a new tranny. I am still in the process of replacing it. Also, I recovered 9 quarts. Apparently, the torque converter seal fails which would explain the excessive fluid loss.

 

So, if your tranny shudders or over revs the engine when shifting, perform an oil change. If you recover more than 3.5 liters, consider having the TC seal replaced.

 

PS I understand it is almost impossible to overfill a Tiptronic.

[97-986 0]

jjb7 - can you elaborate on why you say it is almost impossible to overfill a Tiptronic?

Not calling you out, I'd just like to know why or how you arrived at that conclusion.

 

Thanks -

[JFP in PA 683]

jjb7 - can you elaborate on why you say it is almost impossible to overfill a Tiptronic?

Not calling you out, I'd just like to know why or how you arrived at that conclusion.

 

Thanks -

Very easy:  Fill it up and do not run through the gears and up to the correct fluid temperature with the over flow plug out of the pan to drain off excees fluid.  I have also seen cars that were filled while not level end up the same way.

 

You would be surprised at how many cars we see that are over filled by shops that don't really know how to serivce these units.

[jjb7 0]

The Tip has a vent valve to exhaust any vapor produced by overfilling. I learned this by watching a video produced by Porsche.

[SteelStroke 4]

May want to check the clockspring...that was the issue with my Tip not working as intended...now works great.

[Turboflyer 0]

Joining this late , but what is a clock spring? 
I have serviced my 986s twice , once at 60k and again at 120 k. Now getting the P0740 TC solenoid code 122k. So I though ok maybe I didn’t fill correctly. Easy fix. After    Reaching temp , topped off , very little needed, ran through the gears. Which cannot be done with the brake depressed, applied brake, Put in park, removed fill plug. Was surprised having a positive pressure and fluid puked out momentarily. Don’t ever recall that scenario. Did find some very shiny tiny metal particles in the fluid will have to check for type of metal today. Hope you can help.

[JFP in PA 683]

A clock spring is beneath the air bag in the steering wheel.

 

P0740 is the code for multiple possible issues:

• Fluid level not correct
• Torque converter clutch worn
• Mechanical damage to pressure regulator #4.
• Open electrical circuit(s) or short(s).
• Stuck valve body valve.

Most commonly, the fluid level is not correct.