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New RMS Seal And Test Tool

Loren
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Tool Pants Member

Tool Pants

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Checked with the part department and there is a 4th generation seal. They did not have any in stock. And according to the computer there were only 4 in Ontario, CA

Peter did not know about a new tool, so if there is one it must not be a the dealership yet.

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Costa Member

Costa

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Creepy that the part number is a 997 now! I guess RMS is happing often in that camp as well?

I guess we should not be all that surprised since the M97 block is based on the M96.

Looks like the composition of the seal may be an issue due to the differing variants.

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umn Member

umn

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As I have mentioned before, the new 996 seal is apparently the standard 997 seal.

Don't know about anything about a new tool, but I'll be in Zuffenhausen at the factory next week to have my RMS changed (3rd time, 65000 mls), so I'll make some enquiries and keep you posted.

Cheers,

Uwe

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  • 4 weeks later...
Mother Member

Mother

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Well here I go again "new seal" I luckily still have my engine out but just bolted up my clutch and tranny, the last updated seal I think I put in 6 months ago was for a 2002 996 which was newer then the version I originally had for the 3.4. I inspected the new seal going in and I did think that it did not have enough elasticity (mating lip) to offset any crankshaft or case half issues that some have speculated. What are they doing here adding a bandade or do they feel the seal is the problem? I hope UMN while your there you can find some answers - GOD SPEED Obey One.

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Loren Member

Loren

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Loren, do you know when Porsche will start using the new RMS on the 997? end of 05 or 06?

The new seal is for the 996, 986, 997, and 987. There are a few hundred (according to a dealer I talked to today) in the US. I suspect they are already in product units of the 997 and 987.

Don't get your confidence too high this will be the 3rd or 4th seal they have tried. I for one (I now have my 2nd RMS leak) hope this new seal does the trick.

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LVDell Member

LVDell

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For people who don't track their cars, will they have RMS problem?

It appears that alot of people that have reported having the RMS problem have been those will low mileage where the car wasn't driven as hard, especially on the track. Driving the car like it should have been driven allows the seals to seat better in the beginning days and those that didn't seat as good, well you know what happens. But as Loren said, it happens to be one of those things that is not prejudicial......it has happened to all types.

You would think by now they would be able to figure out if it was a series of VIN's that were in a bad batch, but that isn't the case either. Very disturbing annoyance if you ask me! Fixable under warranty, alot fixed after warranty, roughly $800 if you have to pay out of pocket so no big deal, but a huge annoyance as I said.

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umn Member

umn

Posted
Posted (edited)
...

It appears that alot of people that have reported having the RMS problem have been those will low mileage where the car wasn't driven as hard, especially on the track. 

...

Driving the car like it should have been driven allows the seals to seat better in the beginning days and those that didn't seat as good, well you know what happens.  But as Loren said, it happens to be one of those things that is not prejudicial......it has happened to all types. 

...

Being an automotive engineer myself, I have talked at considerable length with colleagues at the Porsche factory, at seal manufacturers and at various research institutes.

The reason why the RMS fails is well understood and is a result of the 996's revolutionary crankcase design, which consists of a separate crankshaft carrier which is bolted into the actual crankcase, rather than the crankshaft running directly in the crankcase link in normal designs.

Because the crankshaft is running in the crankshaft carrier, whereas the RMS is located in the crank case, you get vibrations between the crankshaft and the RMS, which ultimately destroy the RMS. With a conventional crankcase design, this can't happen, because both the crankshaft and RMS are located directly in the crankcase, so there can't be the same kind of vibrations between the two. Also, with the 996 design, the distance between the last crankshaft bearing and the RMS is much greater than with a conventional engine, where the RMS comes right behind the last crankshaft bearing. The increased distance between RMS and crankshaft bearing means that the flex of the crankshaft results in a higher lateral movement of the crankshaft at the point of the RMS.

In oder to reduce the distance between last crankshaft bearing and RMS, Porsche developed a new tool that places the RMS deeper into the crankcase, i.e. closer to the last crankshaft bearing.

The problem is worse with the 3.4l engine, because the gearbox drive shaft only has two bearings, therefore the whole crankshaft/flywheel/drive shaft system vibrates even more. With the introduction of 3.6l engines, GETRAG added a third bearing to the drive shaft to reduce these vibrations. Automatic gearboxes also have a better support of the drive shaft, this is the reason why the RMS problem isn't quite as bad with automatic gearboxes.

Porsche attempted a new solution with the 997 engine: They added an extra bearing to the crankshaft carrier of the engine. The extra support and reduced distance between the new bearing and the RMS is supposed to reduce vibrations.

Obviously there are other reasons for oil leaks in this area: Slightly off-centre crankshafts, failing intermediate shaft seals, leak in the actual crankcase (inadequate sealant application or casting problems), but the vibration issue is the reason why most RMSs eventually fail.

Since the problem is inherent in the 996 engine design, it is unlikely that the new seal will solve the problem. Otherwise, Porsche would not have redesigned the crankshaft carrier for the 997. In fact, I have not come across a single engineer who thought that this would be the solution. Sorry.

My car had the new 997 seal fitted at the factory three weeks ago, but for above reasons nobody sounded very confident that this will solve the problem. I'll keep you posted if and when it fails again.

Cheers,

Uwe

Edited by umn
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ickle_monster_au Member

ickle_monster_au

Posted
Posted

Ok. Just got some weird advice from Porsche UK.

They have stated that the new RM seal is only compatible with 997 & Post 2001 996's. They tried to sell me a 996 revised in place.

1. Is this another example of parts department sales creativity?

2. Was there a new TSB or test tool for the 997 seal?

Some days I kinda hate being in this country. :angry:

Peter

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umn Member

umn

Posted
Posted (edited)
Ok. Just got some weird advice from Porsche UK.

They have stated that the new RM seal is only compatible with 997 & Post 2001 996's. They tried to sell me a 996 revised in place.

...

I think that's rubbish. Mine is a 2000 model and the 997 seal number 997 101 212 00 was fitted at Porsche Stuttgart three weeks ago.

I can fax you the invoice if you want. Obviously it's in German, but it's got the part number on it.

Cheers,

Uwe

Edited by umn
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Loren Member

Loren

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Ok. Just got some weird advice from Porsche UK.

They have stated that the new RM seal is only compatible with 997 & Post 2001 996's. They tried to sell me a 996 revised in place.

...

I think that's rubbish. Mine is a 2000 model and the 997 seal number 997 101 212 00 was fitted at Porsche Stuttgart three weeks ago.

I can fax you the invoice if you want. Obviously it's in German, but it's got the part number on it.

Cheers,

Uwe

I agree. The September 2005 parts list shows it as the replacement for all model year 996 and 986 (as well as 997 and 987).
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  • 2 weeks later...
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Loren Member

Loren

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New info from the TSBs (4/05 1359):

The full Boxster (986) and Carrera (996) TSBs are available to Contributing Members in the Current TSB section.

New crankshaft sealing ring on flywheel side.

A new crankshaft sealing ring can be supplied for the vehicles above-mentioned if the crankshaft sealing ring is leaking.

The new crankshaft sealing ring is made from a different material (PTFE). The modified sealing lip design is the same as that of the crankshaft sealing ring used in Cayenne engines.

In the event of a complaint or when carrying out engine repair work that involves replacing the crankshaft sealing ring, the new crankshaft sealing ring must always be installed.

Note: For information on the assembly tools to be used, refer to the Workshop Manual!

Note: The new crankshaft sealing ring (sports cars) can be identified not only by its Part No. but also by its green assembly sleeve.

The crankshaft sealing ring with a white assembly sleeve is only designed for  ayenne engines and must not be installed in the engines of sports cars.

Part Nos.:

997.101.212.00 New/crankshaft sealing ring, flywheel side

999.113.490.41 Previous/ditto, no longer available

999.113.490.40 Previous/ditto, no longer available

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viper501 Member

viper501

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Loren,

I've tried to access the new PDF and cannot get it to display properly. Tried other files and they work fine, just not the new RMS TSB. It downloads to my desktop and will open but won't display the text, although it does show two small thumbnails for pages 1 and 2.

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Loren Member

Loren

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Loren,

I've tried to access the new PDF and cannot get it to display properly.  Tried other files and they work fine, just not the new RMS TSB.  It downloads to my desktop and will open but won't display the text, although it does show two small thumbnails for pages 1 and 2.

These come from a different source. I converted then back to the older Acrobat (5) format. You might want to update to Acrobat 7.x - then you can read them all. They should work now.
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Fast40th Member

Fast40th

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Loren & Tool Pants: Thank you for this post. My car's RMS (first) is being replaced this week (@6.9K miles in odo).

Your postings on this matter and the information posted herein on the newest part and TSB (1359). Have helped ease the annoyance of having to deal with this.

Cheers.

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  • 9 months later...
Kendall Member

Kendall

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Posted
The new RMS seal is for Boxster (986 and 987), Carrera (996 and 997).

I haven't seen a new tool yet but the new seal is: 997 101 212 00

More info as I get it.

Resurecting an old thread on the anniversary of the new seal to ask if anyone knows about the performance of the 997 seal?

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