Need LED info for main interior lights only

[Natty]

Getting a headache from trying to find this info.

I just fixed the common, melting switch problem in the main interior light console. Since LEDs burn much cooler, in order to keep this from happening again, I'd like to just replace the main interior light, and possibly the map lights as well.

I don't really want to go through the trouble or expense of replacing every bulb with LED so I don't need the kit.

Does anyone know what LED light to buy for the front, upper center console light?

Is this the right one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120985112262?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D120985112262%26_rdc%3D1

Thanks!

04 Cayenne S

Edited April 3, 2013 by Natty

[Ricky1]

I am trying to replace lights with LEDs too. I just received a few LEDs from an online purchase about three weeks ago from DX.com with sku=51372 (you can search with the sku on the dx.com site).

These are too long for replacing the overhead console/map lights as the pictures show. They are also too long for other interior light "fixtures" too, including the red "fixtures" along the passenger doors when the door is open.

I have also purchased (but not yet arrived) sku=51356. These are smaller and only 70 lumens compared to the 126 lumens for the ones mentioned above. They are shorter and am hoping these will fit and are also bright enough.

I will give an update when I get them.

The rear dome light is Osram K5618 10Watt 12V 41mm long. I was looking for a LED replacement but am worried about how narrow the dome fixture is making accomodating a LED Festoon bulb with lots of LED not possible. I would rather keep the tungsten bulb than have dimmer LEDs.

[Natty]

Thanks for the info. Did you look at the one I linked to? It doesn't show the lumens but it has 8 LEDs---only one less than the ones you tried.

Oktay had their battery drained by LED's. Haven't seen this problem mentioned anywhere else in my search for LED info.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/42695-interior-light-switch-failure-plus-sunglass-holder/?p=236092

I would take a slightly dimmer light to be able to use LEDs because when the switch melts again, the lumens become 0.

I went ahead and bought a pair of the ones in my first post. Will report back when I get them.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Natty

[Ricky1]

Yes, I took a look at the ones you bought. Looks like they may be short enough for the fixture... but can't be sure until you try it. One LED less shouldn't make a difference but you have 4 pointing down which is perfect for the overhead console lights. Looking forward to your report!

Edited April 4, 2013 by Ricky1

[odix]

I too will consider LEDs if we can all locate ones that do not drain the vehicle battery. For now all I want to do is add LEDs for the overhead console (three bulbs).

I know very little about electrical current but one thought to consider -- the heat may not only originate from the incandescent bulbs filaments -- heat may also originate from the current running to power the bulbs, any bulbs. The melted section (from what I recall) of the housing was not exactly where the bulbs were housed. LEDs draw much less current but switching to LED bulbs (even if the battery drain issue is resolved) may not resolve the current heat/melting issue.

Please keep us posted Ricky1 and Natty.

Update: another option. May resolve the drain issue and the size looks like it's not too long:

http://www.tunerdomes.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=145

Edited April 4, 2013 by odix

[Natty]

Will be sure to update when I get them. (Heh--it'll be a while as they come from China.)

The bulb you linked to is pretty dim. The one I'm getting also has the same "canbus" error this-and-that technology. Don't know how/if that relates to any of the issues being brought up.

From the listing:

"Built-In Canbus Load Resistors to Avoid Error Codes on European Vehicles "

[deilenberger]

I too will consider LEDs if we can all locate ones that do not drain the vehicle battery. For now all I want to do is add LEDs for the overhead console (three bulbs).

I know very little about electrical current but one thought to consider -- the heat may not only originate from the incandescent bulbs filaments -- heat may also originate from the current running to power the bulbs, any bulbs. The melted section (from what I recall) of the housing was not exactly where the bulbs were housed. LEDs draw much less current but switching to LED bulbs (even if the battery drain issue is resolved) may not resolve the current heat/melting issue.

Please keep us posted Ricky1 and Natty.

Update: another option. May resolve the drain issue and the size looks like it's not too long:

http://www.tunerdomes.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=145

I doubt that the CanBus system monitors the current draw from the overhead lights. It does monitor the current draw from the taillights and other exterior bulbs. You can safely use an LED package without the "load resistors"..

Incandescent bulbs are very inefficient, the majority of current they consume is converted to heat. A solid-state light source is different - most of the current they use is converted into light, meaning they draw much less current than a bulb of the same lumen output. If the bulb does have "load resistors" - they are designed to make the bulb draw near the same current as the stock incandescent bulb. Since the resistors aren't putting out any light - guess what they DO put out.. heat. I'd avoid them if your goal is to reduce the heating. And if the issue was a high-resistance fault in the wiring causing localized heating (say of the switch contacts) - putting bulbs in of any type that draw the same current through the flawed wiring isn't going to fix anything.

Edited April 5, 2013 by deilenberger

[Natty]

Update:

The bulbs fit perfectly! Love the nice white light, especially compared to the one incandescent bulb I have left to replace (I only bought one set of two in case they didn't fit).

Makes me want to do the whole car but I'm a little leery due to the battery drain issue mentioned above.

At any rate, I ordered one more set to replace the remaining bulb in the overhead console.

As to heat, there is some present at the top of the LED bulb where the resistors are---the worst place, of course, if you're trying to eliminate the melting problem. I was able to touch the area but I can't hold my finger on it indefinitely---too hot. If I can find my infrared thermometer, maybe I'll try to get some readings for comparison.

Will update if I get any more info.

[Ricky1]

Thanks for the update... I haven't received my LEDs yet ( the shorter ones than the ones I alrdeay have)... that is free shipping for you. As soon as I get them I will put an ammeter to it to see how much current they draw as oppose to a regular light bulb. Do you have an ammeter/multimeter?

[hahnmgh63]

Anyone tired to locate the replacements without the resistors? Do the Ziza from ECS have the resistors?

[Natty]

So I measured the temp as best I could and here are the highest readings I could come up with. Held the instrument close to, and aimed near the socket/base of each bulb with all others turned off:

LED: 140 f

Incandescent: 200 f

So while there is still some heat, it's quite a bit less.

I have a digital multimeter. How do I do run that test?

[darrinsmith]

The interior lights don't need load resistors.

I just swapped my internal with led wedge globes from china.

The whole set was less than $15 with postage, so you definately don't need an expensive set from a fancy "tuning" shop.

I did choose to leave the reading lights as normal as the LEDs are so bright I find them too distracting if the passenger is reading etc at night.

[Ricky1]

Update: LEDs

Finally received the 5 LEDs/bulb I orderd about two months ago... free shipping... took six weeks to receive them. Earlier on this post I summarized the 9 LEDs/bulb bulbs I first received. I finally made some free time to summarize these findings:

A. Incandescent bulb W5W: Current = 0.31 Amps, temperature 65.1C (149F), "brightness" F11.6 ( * explain later)

B. 9 LED/bulb bulb: Current = 0.09 Amps, temperature 45.3C (113F), "brightness" F11.3

C. 5 LED/bulb bulb: Current = 0.06 Amps, temperature 35.6C ( 96F), "brightness" F 11

* Brightness was tested with a photographer's light meter placed about 8 inched below the bulbs. (Meter set at 1000ASA @ 1/10 of a second). "B" and "C" are about the same illumination because both have 1 LED pointing down so B's additional 4 LEDs "up top" didn't really affect the reading because they all are pointed horizontally. All brightness readings were taken without the "reflector fixture" on so with it on, the horizontal LEDs would contribute and add to the reading. I will try to come up with "reflector fixture on" readings later.

Notes:

Obviously there are color differences between the incandescent (IC) bulbs and the LED bulbs and the photos below show this.

With the reflector fixture on, the LEDs gives a more even illumination while the IC bulb gives a more spotlight illumination (this of course is due to the built in lens serving as a map light, which is its purpose I suppose). Though the LED spreads its light more evenly, it still does not spread over to the other front passenger.

I was going to leave one IC bulb in and use two other LED bulbs as shown in one of the pictures but I have since replaced all three IC bulbs with LED with the center one with the 9 LED/bulb. So by doing so, instead of 3 x 0.31 Amps... lets just say equalling 1 Amp, I am using 2 x 0.06 Amps + 1 x 0.09 Amps = 0.21 Amps... So in the end I am just using 1/5 of the amperage than using the hot IC bulbs. BUT! If my wife is bothered by the white (I think 6000K) color of the bulbs, then its back to IC... or I will look for warmer color LEDs.

Battery drain problem??? Guess what, I found something quite peculiar. I have the LED bulbs in, no ICs. Overhead console, switch the middle switch to the left to turn lights ON. LED lights come on... normal result. Now I press the Switch D (as in the manual, overhead console switch "Switch for switching off all interior lights" page 149)... the LEDs goes off... then comes back ON with a soft glow!!! This soft glow does not happen if I slide Switch C (the middle one) to the right, ie. lights come on when the doors open... when the LEDs comes ON when the doors are opened, then Switch D is pressed, the LEDs are OFF and doesn't have that continuous "after glow".

Hope the above info is helpful... spending too much time on this but someone has to :-)

Here are some Pics:

Incandescent (IC) and LED together

Bare bulbs with no reflector/lens fixture

One IC bulb and two LED bulbs

IC bulb light color

LED bulb light color

"After glow" after pressing "D" button/switch

All three IC bulbs replaced with LED bulbs

The 5 LED/bulb bulbs

This stuff takes a lot of time... hope there are people that are interested...

Edited May 27, 2013 by Ricky1

[Natty]

Nice write-up!

This thread fills in some missing gaps regarding this specific application.

BTW, the bulbs I got do not exhibit the "after-glow" effect.

[Ricky1]

The "after glow" picture's exposure does not reflect the actual brightness of the LEDs. The LEDs are dimmer than shown in the picture.

Another note: Using an incandesent (IC) bulb with the map light lens, the light is more focused at the steering wheel (ie. spot light)... light reading of f11. At the same light reading postion with a LED bulb, the light is more dispersed with a light reading of f 5.6, which is 1/4 of the light at the same spot... but the light is more white and area is more evenly lit. It still looks bright though with the LED bulb. I guess you can say the IC bulb is a point source light and the LED bulb is not (more dispersion in all directions).

(One "f" stop is a doubling of light, eg. f5.6 to f8.0 or f8.0 to f11.0, so from f5.6 to f11 is 2 x 2 the brightnes, or from f11 to f5.6 is 1/2 x 1/2 the brightness. Apoligies for you guys that already know this... I personally like things "spelled" out for me ;-) )

Natty, I may try the bulbs you bought. Ebay via your provided link. 2 for $3.99. Thanks.