Locking Cams Really Necessary on an IMS Replacement?

[JFP in PA]

Came at it with a fresh head after a night of sleep and got the cam tool into place after just 15 mins.

I removed the coolant hoses that run in front of the cam plugs so I could see what I was doing, then jiggled the crank around the TDC point until the cam slots aligned and finally got the tool in place. Turns out that they align when the TDC crank mark is about 2 degrees past the mark on the engine case.

 

I could not tighten the allen head bolt that came with the LN kit, so I cut down and used a 13mm bolt and a cordless ratchet to bolt the tool to the engine case.

 

Onto the tensioners... let battle commence.

 

Glad you got the cam locking tool in place, but does this mean you do not have the TDC pin in place?  If so, you need to address that fact before removing the tensioners.

[SpawnyWhippet]

I managed to get the crank locking pin in place, just, it was right up against the holes and a really tight squeeze.

 

Did that before pulling the tensioners out. I now removed the IMS flange and realized that the old c clip holding the bearing in place is about 15mm wider diameter than the replacement one in the LN kit, and the old bearing itself looks 15mm larger than the new one. Is this just a shell / seal and the actual bearing in a smaller diameter shaft behind it?

 

 

Edited May 15, 2015 by SpawnyWhippet

[JFP in PA]

I managed to get the crank locking pin in place, just, it was right up against the holes and a really tight squeeze.

 

Did that before pulling the tensioners out. I now removed the IMS flange and realized that the old c clip holding the bearing in place is about 15mm wider diameter than the replacement one in the LN kit, and the old bearing itself looks 15mm larger than the new one. Is this just a shell / seal and the actual bearing in a smaller diameter shaft behind it?

 

 

You pictures are not showing, try that again with photos of everything you are referring to.

[SpawnyWhippet]

Fixed the images above - there had been spaces in the file name and that was breaking the links

Edited May 15, 2015 by SpawnyWhippet

[JFP in PA]

I have to ask a question:  What is the size of the center bolt nut (in MM) that was on the original bearing?  Is it 22 MM?

[Ahsai]

Yours looks like the M97 larger bearing, which can't be extracted? Was the engine ever replaced?

[JFP in PA]

Yours looks like the M97 larger bearing, which can't be extracted? Was the engine ever replaced?

 

That is exactly were I was going.  I'd also check the engine number for either "AT" or "X" in the sequence.

[SpawnyWhippet]

The engine number says a M96, there is no record of the engine being replaced. I can also wiggle the whole shaft around - it is not bearing play,

 

If this turns out to be a M97, I am going to cry. I spent about 20 hours and more than $1500 in parts and tools already getting to this point...

 

Edited May 15, 2015 by SpawnyWhippet

[JFP in PA]

The engine number says a M96, there is no record of the engine being replaced. I can also wiggle the whole shaft around - it is not bearing play

 

 

The "AT" is the number means this is a factory reman replacement engine.  Sorry.

[Ahsai]

It's a reman engine! The good news is the IMSB failure rate seems to be much lower than the MkI's bearings as long as you don't track the car.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Ahsai

[JFP in PA]

And I'll bet the center bolt nut is 22MM, and you are looking at a non serviceable bearing.

[SpawnyWhippet]

Its 22mm. Does this mean I just wasted more than a week+$1500 pulling all this apart and now have to put it back together again with the old part in place?

[Ahsai]

John, do you recommend removing the seal on the existing bearing? At least that way spawny can feel he has achieved something :)

 

Spawny, you can sell the IMSB, no? Why $1500?

[rennbob]

Man, I feel your pain.   But you can at least replace clutch/flywheel/RMS/flange seal if needed?   

[SpawnyWhippet]

$1500 was for the bearing, LN tool kit and other tools I needed, seals, bolts etc. I have a new AOS to install with the transmission out, that's about the only saving grace here. The most annoying thing about this is that I checked my engine number was a M96 before I started, as I knew the M97 engines were not serviceable.

 

Calling Pelican now to see if they can take the IMS bearing back.

 

Clutch, RMS etc were replaced only 10k miles ago by the previous owner. I wondered why they hadn't done the IMS then, now I know...

 

Learned a new thing - if there is a AT in the engine number, don't try to change the... :censored:  IMS bearing

Edited May 15, 2015 by SpawnyWhippet

[JFP in PA]

Its 22mm. Does this mean I just wasted more than a week+$1500 pulling all this apart and now have to put it back together again with the old part in place?

 

The only factory IMS bearing that used the 22 MM center bolt was the last design, which unfortunately is the non serviceable unit.  While you have the car apart, it would be advisable to remove the IMS bearing rear seal (using something like a dental pick) so that the oil mist in the engine can lubricate it.  We have several customers running this way without any issues.

 

A couple of "take a way's" for those reading this thread and thinking about doing an IMS retrofit; first always check the engine number for the presence of either "AT" or "X", which indicates a replacement engine, which could mean a non serviceable IMS bearing.  Second, and this is a big one, unless you know for a fact the engine is pre 2000, or 2002 to 2004 (so you have a reasonable chance of which style bearing is in there), do not buy the IMS bearing before you take the car apart.  Many vendors of the LN kits will not take them back or even exchange them.  While you can always recoup what you spent for the LN tool kit, pre purchasing the IMS bearing can be hazardous to your wallet, as they make very expensive paper weights.

[SpawnyWhippet]

Thanks for the advice. By "removing the IMS bearing rear seal", are you referring to the black seal at the forward end of the IMS that I can see now that the IMS flange is removed, or is there another behind that? Should I apply any grease after removing the seal, or would that just get washed straight into the engine oil?

 

There was only maybe 1/2 fl oz or 20ml of oil behind the IMS flange when I removed it, as there was nowhere for it to be retained, it all drained out in the slot in the engine case that the c-clip falls into when you remove it from the retaining groove.

 

While you have the car apart, it would be advisable to remove the IMS bearing rear seal (using something like a dental pick) so that the oil mist in the engine can lubricate it.  We have several customers running this way without any issues.

[JFP in PA]

 

Thanks for the advice. By "removing the IMS bearing rear seal", are you referring to the black seal at the forward end of the IMS that I can see now that the IMS flange is removed, or is there another behind that? Should I apply any grease after removing the seal, or would that just get washed straight into the engine oil?

 

There was only maybe 1/2 fl oz or 20ml of oil behind the IMS flange when I removed it, as there was nowhere for it to be retained, it all drained out in the slot in the engine case that the c-clip falls into when you remove it from the retaining groove.

 

While you have the car apart, it would be advisable to remove the IMS bearing rear seal (using something like a dental pick) so that the oil mist in the engine can lubricate it.  We have several customers running this way without any issues.

 

 

Yes, you want to remove the black seal that surrounds the center bolt on the IMS bearing.  In doing so, the oil mist that is circulating in that area will constantly lubricate and cool the bearing.  You do not need to apply anything to the bearing.

[Julian T]

Just out of interest - were you able to take the parts back? 

 

This thread has been really interesting as I learnt to look for that AT on the engine number.    

[Richard Hamilton]

AT is short for Austausch - German for Exchange