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Do you have experience with these tire brands?


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Does anyone have any experience with the following tire brands?  Some are from Indonesia, China, Korea and elsewhere.

 

Achilles

Saffiro

Lionhart

Winrun

Mayrun

Delinte

Accelera

Nexen

Atturo

Capital

 

This partial list is from Americaswheel.com with size being 275/40/20.  The least expensive one is the Achilles at $78.03 each.  If I am buying, I would like the Yokohama Parada Spec-X at $154.34.

 

So you think the Yokos are really twice as good as the Achilles...   $78.03 per tire is so tempting.

 

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oh wow haha.  When i saw the title i thought it was going to be like Kuhmo or General Tire.  I haven't even heard of some of these brands haha.

 

 

So to answer your question....no the Yoko's won't be twice as good.

 

BUT these are some really unkown brands.....do some research, perhaps some might be made by a more well known brand?

 

 

There are plenty of good tires, similar to the one you found, that are well known, and have a lot of miles and feedback in the marketplace.  I'd personally stick with a tire manufacturer that i had experience with, but i would be interested in seeing some of these lesser known tires tested.

 

 

Oh and P.S. Before anyone drops the "Chinese tires suck" or something foolish like that.  Keep in mind many tire manaufacturers have plants in china and many other industrialized nations these days.  Most of these facilities in China are huge job shops, making many brands of many different things.

 

Case in point....i was visiting a supplier for business.  That quarter they were making swiss watch internals, hair dryers, and kurigs haha.  not saying they were any good, but my point is place of origin no longer an indication of quality.

Edited by clarksongli
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I have the Achilles 275/45/20 on my facelift 2008 9PA - were installed when I bought it 2nd hand - I have now 5000miles on them and they dont seem to show any wear to be honest was expecting much more from what I have read about tyre wear ... cant really compare wear and noise though as I got nothing to compare but to me seems like a reasonable tyre

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If you own these cars let's care about them. Money should not be an issue. Buy michelins they are the best and it's only proper. If your not going to use this tire step down a bit and with conti they build a good tire. But my personal advice is to go with Michelin. I use them on my ferraris and my porsches along with my personal cars

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If you own these cars let's care about them. Money should not be an issue. Buy michelins they are the best and it's only proper. If your not going to use this tire step down a bit and with conti they build a good tire. But my personal advice is to go with Michelin. I use them on my ferraris and my porsches along with my personal cars

 

Yeah...listen to this guy....he sounds legit....

 

 

 

You have an expensive car that takes expensive tires. I wouldn't chance it with my life or my families life going cheap. I would pretty much guarantee you they don't meet Porsche Specs and probably don't even meet DOT specs.

 

Most all of these tire manufacturers are going to have DOT certificates.

 

again i personally would probably not chance it considering a kuhmo or yoko is only a few bucks more.....but these tires are all over the place, and probably have millions of miles of experience now, so i'd think it's a safe bet to say they are not 100% terrible.

 

Something to keep in mind is the large purchasing population buying these tires are ones on a tight budget with junker cars....so you can only imagine the bad suspension, misaligned wheels, unbalance bent wheels, and lack of pothole avoidance.....perhaps they are fairly rugged? 

 

I'd like to hear from more folks running these tires....seems like the two so far haven't had terrible experiences with them so far.

Edited by clarksongli
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If you really want to eliminate the mystery regarding proper tire selection for your vehicle, it's simple.  Go to the Porsche website and download the latest approved tires sheet, and then pick one in the correct size for your vehicle that's shown in bold lettering on the list.  The ones in bold are the most current approved version of the tire (e.g., N1 versus N0).  If you want even further refinement, go to one of the non-USA Porsche websites and download the approved tires sheet that has the EU tire rating specs shown - for rolling resistance, wet handling, and noise levels.  Then pick a tire that rates the highest with the feature that's most important to you.  Do this and you'll have Porsche-spec'ed tires that were manufactured specifically in collaboration between Porsche engineers and the tire manufacturer engineers with your vehicle in mind.  N-spec tires may be a bit more expensive, but in many regards, tires are the single most important safety feature on your car. 

 

This isn't saying, of course, that you can't or shouldn't use Porsche N-rated tires on your vehicle; that's your decision based on your budget and whatever other factors you base your decision on.  But in my experience thus far, the N-rated tires have given much better actual driving results than the non-N-rated tires I've tried. YMMV.

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If you really want to eliminate the mystery regarding proper tire selection for your vehicle, it's simple.  Go to the Porsche website and download the latest approved tires sheet, and then pick one in the correct size for your vehicle that's shown in bold lettering on the list.  The ones in bold are the most current approved version of the tire (e.g., N1 versus N0).  If you want even further refinement, go to one of the non-USA Porsche websites and download the approved tires sheet that has the EU tire rating specs shown - for rolling resistance, wet handling, and noise levels.  Then pick a tire that rates the highest with the feature that's most important to you.  Do this and you'll have Porsche-spec'ed tires that were manufactured specifically in collaboration between Porsche engineers and the tire manufacturer engineers with your vehicle in mind.  N-spec tires may be a bit more expensive, but in many regards, tires are the single most important safety feature on your car. 

 

This isn't saying, of course, that you can't or shouldn't use Porsche N-rated tires on your vehicle; that's your decision based on your budget and whatever other factors you base your decision on.  But in my experience thus far, the N-rated tires have given much better actual driving results than the non-N-rated tires I've tried. YMMV.

 

So i can 100% tell you that non of the discount tires are on this list.....reason being they simply don't want to spend the money to qualify them with Porsche.

 

While i do believe Auto MFG Engineers do the analysis to validate the designs of the 3rd party supplier, you have to remember that this "validation" is mostly marketing and cost driven.  This is why you will see only big name companies qualify with auto manufacturing.

 

This is also why you will see items that were once qualified, drop off the list.....they either failed, or did not think it was worth recertifying.  So take the Porsche "seal of approval" with a grain of salt.

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So i can 100% tell you that non of the discount tires are on this list.....reason being they simply don't want to spend the money to qualify them with Porsche.

 

Or more likely, they can't.

 

While i do believe Auto MFG Engineers do the analysis to validate the designs of the 3rd party supplier, you have to remember that this "validation" is mostly marketing and cost driven.  This is why you will see only big name companies qualify with auto manufacturing.

 

It's very expensive to make a unique tire mold with the special "N" designation on the sidewall.  It's not new for major tire companies to collaborate with high performance vehicle manufacturers to design tires intended to enhance the performance and handling of the vehicle (e.g., Goodyear - Corvette; Pirelli - Ferrari;  Yokohama - NSX; etc., etc.)  I think there's much more to it than mere marketing.

 

This is also why you will see items that were once qualified, drop off the list.....they either failed, or did not think it was worth recertifying.  So take the Porsche "seal of approval" with a grain of salt.

 

Tire designs and compounds are constantly being tweaked and improved.  A single manufacturer may go from "N0" to "N1" to "N2" on the same type of tire as changes are made.  Others are determined to be unacceptable in use (after initially obtaining a designation) and are dropped.

 

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with using non N-spec tires; they just haven't been subjected to the same level of testing and quality control the N-rated tires have had.

 

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Based on my experience in the automotive and aerospace industries....it's 100% marketting....Just look at the stats. ...porsche sold 35 thousand cars last year roughly in the us....out of 17 million total us sales? There are very few reasons a company would chose to invest heavily in such a niche market....to show the market they to have the technology to be approved by porsche. More than likely they take a loss on the investment in the understanding other sales will increase.

Another example is iso 9000 or 14000....there are numerous studies done saying there is a very weak correlation between quality and the certification in today's world....It becomes a selling point that companies use to gather market traction.

The very fact we are having the discussion only proves the n rated tire investments are doing their job

Again I think spool time and I are on the same page....non n and n tires are both good....Just something to consider

Edited by clarksongli
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Based on my experience in the automotive and aerospace industries....it's 100% marketting....

It may be for marketing purposes, but that doesn't change the fact that N-spec tires have met specified Porsche engineering criteria for the specific application and fitment their approved for.  Let's call that a base line of acceptable performance.  Other non-N tires may be able to meet the criteria as well, but simply put, have not,  for whatever reason.  I prefer trusting tires that have; I consider them to be a safety feature of the vehicle.

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Agreed with one exception...Just because they don't carry a n rating doesn't meet they don't meet the spec....It means the company never bothered to submit for testing. I'm sure there are tires out there that would qualify...but to your point we just don't know for sure

Edited by clarksongli
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  • 2 weeks later...

I have to agree with what Porshce engineers say there cars recommend, period. Are we smarter then those engineers? I think not. There is a reason why they ask us to use high octane fuel, but a lot of us use regular gasoline. My point here is, why do people try to change things? Who are we to think we are smarter than the other person? Anyway, that was my 2 second rant. LOL... I follow exactly what Porsche or BMW etc. tell me. Except my oil changes and fluids, my hypocrisy stops there.. But I'm running YOKO's on my CS..... There Porsche spec'd as well. If you look at the updated list, you will see what I'm talking about. So, I feel, what everyone should do is go on tirerack.com, search with those guys which tire works well on the CS...Or any other car. I have had great success over the years with them. There are some really good tires out there as well that aren't porsche spec'd but should be and probably will be next year or the following. Just my 2 cents! Good luck!

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...Do this and you'll have Porsche-spec'ed tires that were manufactured specifically in collaboration between Porsche engineers and the tire manufacturer engineers with your vehicle in mind. 

 

Uh no.  None of the tires that carry the N1 or N0 rating were made any differently for Porsche.  Porsche has a basic set of requirements for the tire, and when tire companies submit a tire for testing (at the expense of the tire company), Porsche will verify it meets those requirements and will then charge the tire company for licensing rights to carry the N0 or N1 rating.  It's the same exact process for oils.  This is purely a marketing and customer experience driven program.  If a tire company doesn't submit a tire for testing, it's not going to have the opportunity to carry the approval.  Since Porsche is a low-volume car company compared to the other german cars (BMW, Audi, VW), there isn't a whole lot of incentive for tire companies to pay the large testing costs and licensing fees.  I mean, the Dunlop Wintersport 3D carries the N0 rating, but it's nowhere near the best snow tire.  I've run that tire a fair amount, along with several others.  It's a good tire, for sure, but not the best.  Once you get a few companies that have ponied up for the Porsche rating, most other companies won't bother because they can't make the financials work to pay the licensing fees when there is so little volume, plus a bit of competition.  

 

Sometimes I have to snicker at the way some Cayenne owners treat their cars - as if they're a super bespoke Porsche like the air-cooled cars, or a GT3.  It's a car that Porsche had to build on a budget, and it's half VW.  It's the least "Porsche" car of any Porsche that's ever been made.  It's a great car, and I love my CTT to death, but I'm under no illusion that this is some tight tolerance track machine that requires very specific TLC.  It's a go anywhere, anytime, SUV that is reliable.  You don't get those 3 things by making a car with incredibly specific maintenance practices.  

 

Run whatever tire you want if you're budget minded.  I'd rather see someone run new cheap tires, than continue driving on old tires because they can't drop 1200 bucks on a new set of N1 tires.  Sure - we're all thinking "why are you driving a Cayenne if you can't afford a good set of tires," but I'm not going to be one to judge.  You get what you paid for, but I just wanted to point out that none of the N1 or N0 tires are *actually* made for Porsche.  Sure, some cars do have specially made tires, but that's when there simply isn't a tire on the market that can handle the performance requirements.  There isn't anything special about the handling requirements of a Porsche Cayenne, and plenty of tires on the market are able to meet those requirements.  Hence - no reason to build a special tire.  If Porsche didn't care about price, they would have built the Cayenne 100% on their own. 

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None of the tires that carry the N1 or N0 rating were made any differently for Porsche.

 

 

And you know this because of your current or former employment with Porsche or a tire manufacturer supplying N rated tires?   Just curious.

Edited by spooltime
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None of the tires that carry the N1 or N0 rating were made any differently for Porsche.

 

 

And you know this because of your current or former employment with Porsche or a tire manufacturer supplying N rated tires?   Just curious.

 

 

This is from a very credible source:

"...This N-rating isn’t free.  It comes at a price.  All of that development and testing costs the tire manufacturers and Porsche a penny or two.  For instance, one of the most popular tires for a newer Porsche is the new Michelin Pilot Super Sport (Max Performance Summer) 265/35/ZR19 N0.  It can be purchased from TireRack.com for $419.00 each.

The same tire, without the N0-rating but with the exact same specs is offered by TireRack.com for $297.00 each...."

 

http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_5/For_the_Nth_time.html

 

You want only N-rated, fine.  You don't feel you need to pay the premium for N-rated, fine.  And as was previously noted, if your re-shoeing a Cayenne, don't think you're dealing with a GT3.

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This is from a very credible source:

"...This N-rating isn’t free.  It comes at a price.  All of that development and testing costs the tire manufacturers and Porsche a penny or two.  For instance, one of the most popular tires for a newer Porsche is the new Michelin Pilot Super Sport (Max Performance Summer) 265/35/ZR19 N0.  It can be purchased from TireRack.com for $419.00 each.

The same tire, without the N0-rating but with the exact same specs is offered by TireRack.com for $297.00 each...."

 

http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_5/For_the_Nth_time.html

 

Obviously Pedro didn't read what he wrote on his website and you didn't post the relevant portion of his note about "N" tires:

 

"An N-rated tire is a tire from one of various Porsche-approved tire manufacturers that has passed a series of difficult and diverse tests designed by Porsche engineers to ensure maximum performance and safety under a wide range of driving conditions. To have this rating stamped on the side of their tires, and to be an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) tire provider for Porsche requires the joint product development efforts of the particular manufacturer’s tire engineers working alongside the Porsche vehicle engineers." 

 

If Pedro's quote above is true, then it goes without saying that a non-N spec tire from the same manufacturer doesn't have the "exact same specs" unless we can assume that the tire manufacturer allows its jointly developed tire with Porsche to also be its mass market tire, just without using the "N" tire mold.  Pedro probably doesn't know any more about this than wrinkledpants or me and is just going on heresay like the rest of us.

 

I think we can all agree that a Cayenne will be fine without an N spec tire if you're not so inclined, but the GT3 analogy is bogus.  The discussion is about using a tire that Porsche spec'd for the specific vehicle (Cayenne) versus using one that wasn't.  What should or shouldn't go on a GT3 is irrelevant.

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Just buy michelins or a name brand tire such as conti perelli and so on. Stop being so cheap and making this hard. I just spent 1800 on tires and I'll only put 5000 miles in the next 15 yrs. I own a few porsches and I have owned slot of high end cars people need to stop being cheap.remember we own porsches not Yugos remember that . Make sure all speed rating are right and the traction rating is proper for the car. I own a Porsche repair shop and I was a tire tester for a major tire company at one time

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